Gays, lesbians, bisexuals, PART II

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

I think that is part of the attraction with two people of the same gender. It's being able to balance each other's personality traits but still starting with a closer understanding of how the other might think than two people of opposite genders might start with.

My lady and I had very differnent ways of getting to know each other too. She got to know me through observation, and I got to know her by listening to her stories about her various exploits, memories and experiences.

(I do hope that all of this helps answer questions...)

[katya]

Originally Posted by Lady Marion Magdalena

Personally, I look at anybody and everybody whom I find attractive, not out of any sort of lust, but because they're nice to look at. (And because I like to draw.)

I`m the exact same way. It`s not like lust, but kind of the same as looking at a pretty flower or something?

Thanks for your replies too- I`m still thinking about it. I`ll reply again later.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

That's a good way of putting it. I especially like looking at the proportions of the face, eye-shape and color and the nose. And hair.

[katya]

Yeah, eye shape definately. The captain of my kendo club here is basically just average looking but he has the craziest eyes. They look dangerous. And there`s another kid with these cute eyes that are big and wide open but slanted upwards a little and it`s really cool. But that`s starting to get off topic... Oh, do you have any artwork posted here that I could see?

[The last sane person]

Lord, that is the first thing I look at one aperson. Their eyes. Then their hands. You can learn a lot about people from those two parts of them.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Yeah, there are a couple of drawings attached to the same link that's listed for my first photo in the picture thread. And then a few more linked from the Wraiths and Kings info. thread...

But that's getting off topic.

[The last sane person]

Eh, you need to update that missy. Anyways, yes, its more from an artistic view point that I look at either sex.

[katya]

Oh my god, do I know you or something? I looked at the picture of you, LMM, and I recognized you but couldn`t place where I had seen you before. I think maybe you really resemble a girl I used to know or something.

I have this male friend who I have only known for like a month and I was starting to think maybe I liked him as more than a friend. But I think it might just be because he`s a boy. I think I have a hard time telling the difference between friendship and romantic attraction. Maybe that`s why I was wondering. I think if my male friends are attractive, in my eyes, then I`ll end up being attracted to them or at least thinking I am. It`s so confusing...

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by katya

I`m the exact same way. It`s not like lust, but kind of the same as looking at a pretty flower or something?

Exactly, and the precisely the same analogy I use when looking at women walking by. Young women to me are like roses, pretty flowers that I can enjoy looking at . That's precisely it.

And it's not lustful- just appreciative. I really like that experience.

[The last sane person]

Same for me! Only its for both sexes! It's a liberating feeling, no?

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by The last sane person

Same for me! Only its for both sexes! It's a liberating feeling, no?

Indeed! Yes yes, most definitely. I sometimes think I appreciate and admire women in general all the time, even more than most men, more than a Big Man City construction worker, but without the wolf-whistles and cat-calls, if you know what I mean. Then again, I've never been sexually turned on by certain VERY gorgeous female friends of mine whom I happen to love and admire very much, but only as friends or sisters. Am I making sense? Everybody thinks me and my best friend have a secret love-life going on, because they see how close we are, and they constantly hear how highly we speak of each other, but they see no evidence of sex, because there is no sex between us and there never will be. She means just as much to me as my boyfriend does; she is my FAMily, my dear, dearheart gorgeous amazing phenomenal best friend, but I don't have a sexual spark with her at all, contrary to what our mutual friends seem to think. Anyway...

I thought that was an awesome post you put up there, Katya, just like Gaffer said that's one of the best bi-question posts we've had around here in I don't know how long.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by The last sane person

Lord, that is the first thing I look at one aperson. Their eyes. Then their hands. You can learn a lot about people from those two parts of them.

Oh, MAN I could nor agree more. I have always had the same 2 criterion for checking out a person, and gleaning info on who they are at the heart and core - believe it or not, you guys, you really can tell so much from an individual's hands and of course, their eyes. The way they hold their bodies, too, tells volumes; the way they move about and place their limbs and pick things up; how they move and use their limbs and motions tells so very much. But eyes and hands are crucial, definitely. The expressiveness of each. What someone expresses with all their faculties; that's who they are. Man or woman, whomever expresses the way that clicks with me that magical instant, THAT's who I feel the need to be everything with. To be mentally, intellectually, AND physically intimate with. The actual gender of that person is not a deciding factor. It's the connection and heartsoul attraction that seals the deal, with me. That's just me.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

However, I think people who encourage this type of self-hating behaviour are being extremely cruel, and should be directing the person to counselling, not telling them this is the only way to avoid eternal damnation.

who in the WORLD are you talking about? Certainly not the group I referenced in my post! What are you talking about? What is self-hating about helping someone do something they want to do? It's like any other support group! ANd how in the WORLD are they telling people that changing from homo to het is "telling them this is the only way to avoid eternal damnation"?! Where did you get THAT?

Maybe you misread what I wrote, Nurvi - this is really strange that you got that from my post!

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Lady Marion Magdalena

Maybe so... but billboards? Really? Seems a little over the top for a well intentioned counseling group.

No - they're advertising for a conference - that's why the billboards

[Rían]

Originally Posted by The last sane person

Same for me! Only its for both sexes! It's a liberating feeling, no?

I really appreciate the beauty in both sexes, too.

[Lotesse]

Rian, you're killin' me! You're the triple-postingest mooter I think I've ever seen here, ever. No wonder your post count's so massive. You are definitely the Tripe Post Queen around here - a Triple Threat!

[Rían]

yeah, I guess I just read a great post and want to respond, then I read another great post and want to respond, etc. etc. Just too many wonderful and intelligent Mooters here!

I should really read all of the posts first and then put them together

ps - did you mean "tripe", or was it a typo for "triple"?
*nudge nudge* (I was just watching Monty Python while filling out boring school forms)

[Lotesse]

No, "Triple," silly! I know what you mean when you say you keep seeing things and keep wanting to respond to more stuff, in the same breath, like that. I do the same thing only I am the queen of post-editing - I end up going back, and back, and back like three or four times sometimes, on my post just to edit-to-add more stuff after re-reading other mooter's posts. I bet half the time most mooters never even get to read my posts in their entirety, because by the time I'm done edit-adding, it's been at least a good ten minutes since I first typed and posted the initial entry.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

who in the WORLD are you talking about? Certainly not the group I referenced in my post! What are you talking about? What is self-hating about helping someone do something they want to do? It's like any other support group! ANd how in the WORLD are they telling people that changing from homo to het is "telling them this is the only way to avoid eternal damnation"?! Where did you get THAT?

Maybe you misread what I wrote, Nurvi - this is really strange that you got that from my post!

I got "self-hating" from this:
"I see what you're saying, but I think you're perceiving it wrong - it's for those who are struggling against their OWN unwanted homosexuality - it's their PERSONAL choice - they WANT to change."

Then I went on a rant in my head about possible motives behind that and got avoiding eternal damnation from my internal monologue, because I was kind of mad.

Why was I kind of mad? (Not at you, but at the idea of desiring to change one's sexuality.)

Because I can't even beging to imagine what kind of pressure someone must face (from family, friends, society, themselves, whoever), to want to change their sexuality. Sexuality is something you feel, it's not something you can blame yourself for or turn on and off like a switch. You can't go back to Sexuality-Mart and exchange it for one you like better.

I can't begin to imagine the pain someone must feel to want to change or deny a part of themselves like that. Your sexuality isn't like a bad habit that you should quit, it's part of who you are. It just is, it's not right or wrong.

That's why I was mad. Didn't mean to get bile on you there. *carefully cleans your sweater*

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Why was I kind of mad? (Not at you, but at the idea of desiring to change one's sexuality.)

Because I can't even beging to imagine what kind of pressure someone must face (from family, friends, society, themselves, whoever), to want to change their sexuality. Sexuality is something you feel, it's not something you can blame yourself for or turn on and off like a switch. You can't go back to Sexuality-Mart and exchange it for one you like better.

I can't begin to imagine the pain someone must feel to want to change or deny a part of themselves like that. Your sexuality isn't like a bad habit that you should quit, it's part of who you are. It just is, it's not right or wrong.

That's why I was mad. Didn't mean to get bile on you there. *carefully cleans your sweater*

I don't agree with you. People sometimes want to change their sexuality because of religion, and sometimes because of an inner feeling that what they're doing just isn't right. I've encountered one person of each type, so I know I'm right . People don't always want to change because of having experienced a great deal of pain.

Some time ago, because of the scripture in the Bible that says, "he who even looks at a woman lustfully commits adultery in his heart," I declared all-out-war on my sexuality. I was determined to feel no lust at all, because I am unmarried and did not want this sin to touch me. That war came from simply reading a scripture, not from any massive amount of pain I'd been going through. The attempt to change was excrutiatingly painful though, I admit. The striving against every thought that came to mind, the self-condemnation for moments of weakness, the guilt and shame and also some frustration with the Lord for not acting strongly on my side were very harsh experiences that lasted a number of months while my battle continued. Then finally the Lord intervened and the battle ended. It was actually a partial victory; I'm not anywhere near as lustful now as I was before the confrontation. And I consider that to be a blessing. The feeling is much more controllable now. My war ended partly because of reading the Song of Songs, an extremely explicite sexual book of the Bible. That changed my perspective a bit.

I know you consider this kind of struggle to be a very bad thing, but I actually think I have benefitted some from the experience. I didn't want lust, and now I experience less lust and greater peace. My prayers were answered. I know that people who have made the switch from homosexuality to heterosexuality also feel very pleased and comfortable with the change (trust me; I know two of them).

I also don't expect that people in this program have to go through the same thing. Those trying to bring the change are professionals and knowledgeable people (unlike me), not trying to eliminate sexuality but to change its focus, probably an easier job. I expect they have simpler ways of helping people than giving them months of misery. Though even if there aren't better ways, people choose this for themselves. It's not for us to judge them for their choice or to judge the people who (doing what they believe is right) try to help them make the change.