Feanor vs Fingolfin

[Barandur of Nargothrond]

Fëanor was the mightiest in skill of word and of hand, more learned than his brothers; his spirit burned as a flame. Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiant. Finarfin was the fairest, and the most wise of heart;

Feanor- Killed in Battle with Balrogs, struck down by Gothmog, Lord of the Balrogs, later dying from the wounds.

Fingolfin- Killed in a one on one battle with Morgoth himself but gave him seven wounds that troubled him from that day on.

My Question

Feanor died facing a creature created by Morgoth not by the hand of Morgoth himself, while Fingolfin died by the hand of Morgoth so who should be considered the greater warrior Fingolfin or Feanor, the one that was killed by the creations or the creator?

[Valandil]

Barandur of Nargothrond - welcome to Entmoot!

As for your question - I don't know if we can say for sure which brother was the greater warrior by looking at who slew them.

I think Fingolfin would have also been slain in a similar battle with Gothmog and the other Balrogs.

I think Feanor would have also been slain in a similar battle with Morgoth.

So it may be inconclusive.

[Beor]

I agree with you, Barandur.

Partly because I dont really like Feanor too much, and partly because Fingolfin is probably my favorite Eldar.

However, like Val says, sometimes, you get killed no matter who you're fighting. I just think Feanor gets all the credit because he made the silmarils and was always pissed off, so he had a spirit of fire.

I tell ya though, Fingolfin v. Morgoth would have been a heck of a fight to see.

[Varnafindë]

Fingolfin was the strongest. Possibly the greater warrior because of that. I agree that seeing his fight against Morgoth would have been really something.

Fëanor was a scholar and an artist (mainly in metalwork and jewellery). We don't get to know much about his skills as a warrior, because he was killed by such formidable adversaries in his first major battle. He did a good job of it, though.

[Telcontar]

I guess I choose Fingolfin, but that's probably b/c I don't like Feanor for his treachery against his extended kin in Alqualonde (1st Kinslaying) and against his closer kin when they arrived in ME. Yes, I know it's fiction, but still it's a lot harder to have pity for his character than those of his brothers and their descendants. Maedhros seemed to have repented against his actions, but Curufin and Celegorm remained slimy little bastards until their death in Doriath. All b/c of that damn oath...

[AndMorgothCame.]

I would go with Feanor, because he is the mightiest of all his Kin. Even though he is not a fan favorite due to his personality; to me, he is to the Quendi as Melkor is to the Valar: The mightiest in overall ability; though diminished due to his spirit. That is hard to argue, is it not?

[Valandil]

Oh - I don't know about that. People always find it pretty easy to argue just about anything on message boards.

[AndMorgothCame.]

Well I cant argue with you there.

[Belwen_of_nargothrond]

Fingolfin by far is the better warrior and the greatest. Feanor was greedy and head strong and yet he never made it to Morgoth, but he was stopped in his tracks by Gothmog. Fingolfin, however, challenged Morgoth and the challenge was answered. He also delivered seven wounds to Morgoth which caused him pain forevermore.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Among the Elves, Feanor's criminal violence and treachery to other Elves, his jealousy and some other faults would be considered to result from defect or marring of his Fea, his very essence, and to diminish his stature among them. We do not get to learn much about his power as warrior, but as a commander he was a failure, throwing away 2/3 of his forces through treachery because of his jealousy, arrogant, heedless, vain, and careless, with no concern for maintaining the well being and strength of his forces. As a leader he only viewed his people as expendable assets to be used for his personal agendas, with no thought for their needs. As a family member, he pretty much views his wife and sons the same way. He pretty much fails in all matters other than craft, art, science, charisma, public speaking, and baby making.

[Alcuin]

Fëanor was a ferocious warrior, but “he was fey, consumed by the flame of his own wrath.” He was surrounded by Balrogs (plural!), and still “long he fought on undismayed, though he was wrapped in fire and wounded with many wounds”. (Silmarillion, “Return of the Noldor”) As narrator of The Silmarillion, Tolkien calls him “the mightiest of the Noldor”. Presumably the surviving Noldor gave him that sobriquet despite his nasty reputation at the end because of his objectively evil acts against other Elves, not to mention Lefty’s assessment of his using “his people as expendable assets to be used for his personal agendas, with no though for their needs.” Naming Fëanor “the mightiest of the Noldor” in the chronicles is high praise from the other Eldar. I think there was no greater individual warrior among the Noldor than Fëanor.

There is no doubt that Fingolfin was the greater leader: wiser, nobler in spirit, and by far the more just. I think he must be seen as the greater military commander precisely because he gave greater thought to his soldiers, to the people living in the villages and farms, and to the general welfare. Fëanor had become selfish; Fingolfin did not.

I am uncertain what to make of Fingolfin’s desperate single combat with Morgoth. His was filled with “wrath and despair”, and his temper flared like his brother Fëanor’s. It seems almost suicidal to choose such a course; but he permanently wounded Morgoth and greatly increased his fear. That should not be underrated, because fear can cause people to make mistakes. It gave Elves and Men a respite of sorts by breaking up the course of the battle: perhaps some escaped who might not otherwise have lived or lived free.

The ablest military strategist among the Noldor might arguably be Maedhros, who but for the treachery of Ulfang might have prevailed in the Fifth Battle, even at great cost.

[Galin]

Hmm, in the 1930s Tolkien wrote: 'Of these Feanor was the mightiest in skill of word and hand, more learned in lore than his brethren; in his heart his spirit burned as flame. Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiant. Finrod was the fairest, and the most wise of heart.' (Quenta Silmarillion) Then in the early 1950s he writes (Annals of Aman): 'For Feanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind: in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and subtelty alike: of all the Children of Eru, and a bright flame was in him.'

But yet in the early 1950s Tolkien keeps the first passage, even changing Finrod to Finarfin and extending the last sentence (so we know he simply didn't overlook this). If Feanor is the mightiest 'in valour', how then is Fingolfin the most valiant? or if 'in strength' why then is Fingolfin the strongest? Or if 'in beauty' why then is Finarfin the fairest?

Maybe this is a matter of authorship and opinion: The Annals of Aman were said to be written by Rumil in the Elder Days, and held in memory by the Exiles, and parts remembered were set down in Numenor before the Shadow fell upon it. Could it be that Rumil esteemed Feanor so highly? while another author rather noted the greatness of Fingolfin and Finarfin in certain areas?

Or something else

In any event, here's what Tolkien added (and thus published himself) to the second edition of 1965 (in Appendix A): 'Feanor was the greatest of the Eldar in arts and lore, but also the proudest and most self-willed.'

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by Galin

In any event, here's what Tolkien added (and thus published himself) to the second edition of 1965 (in Appendix A): 'Feanor was the greatest of the Eldar in arts and lore, but also the proudest and most self-willed.'

On page 391 of Reader’s Companion, Hammond and Scull cite “Christopher Tolkien’s comment that his father was given to ‘rhetorical superlatives’, such as ‘the oldest living thing’” in a discussion of whether Treebeard or Bombadil was “oldest”. Some of the discrepancies in alternately describing Fëanor or Fingolfin as “strongest” might fall into this category.

There’s are difference between being strongest and being the best warrior: cf. Ajax the Greater and Achilles; and between being the best warrior and the best leader: cf. Achilles and Hector. And to move one step more, there is a difference between best leader and best strategist: cf. Hector and Odysseus.

In any event, Fëanor in his final combat is described as “fey” – crazy, unhinged, mad. Fingolfin was not: he was desperate and in despair, but he kept his wits about him. Of the two, were I a Noldo, I would hope to choose to follow Fingolfin had I not the choice to repent and remain with Finarfin.

Fëanor’s pride and rage overwhelmed him. For a smart guy, he did some dumb things:

1. He did not know nor did he bother to reconnoiter the disposition of his enemy.
2. He relied entirely upon a single, powerful thrust to overcome Morgoth from without his citadel, even cutting off his simplest means of retreat by burning the stolen ships.
3. He disdained the greater part of his strength by abandoning his brother and his kinsfolk, the very folk for whose welfare he was responsible as King of the Noldor, to suffer in the Helcaraxë.
4. He alienated his natural allies, his brothers, his people (the majority of the Noldor whom he abandoned to suffering and death), the Teleri whom he murdered, and of course the Valar.

Fëanor does not seem to have considered the consequences of his actions in that, had he recovered the Silmarils, he could not have returned to Eldamar or his fortress at Formenos; after consideration, most of the Noldor would be forced to question whether he was truly fit to be king because he deserted Fingolfin and more than half the Noldor to suit his own purposes. He never seems to have considered his position after any victory. Maybe he thought things would just return to some sort of normal: but he never seems to have given thought for anyone other than himself. When he accidentally killed his own son burning the ships at Losgar, we are left with the impression that he even crushed his own mourning and regret.

Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall would seem a most apt description of Fëanor at the end however good his beginning.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

On page 391 of Reader’s Companion, Hammond and Scull cite “Christopher Tolkien’s comment that his father was given to ‘rhetorical superlatives’, such as ‘the oldest living thing’” in a discussion of whether Treebeard or Bombadil was “oldest”. Some of the discrepancies in alternately describing Fëanor or Fingolfin as “strongest” might fall into this category.

Possibly, and even if Tolkien as a writer was given to rhetorical superlatives, arguably this echoed (in any case) what he thought might be found within 'a' legendarium.

[The Mormegil]

The children of Finwe to me were all great. i feel Fingolfin was the stronger or greater for his deeds and good heart. The oath of Feanor was a great burden to the Noldor.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally Posted by Galin

Maybe this is a matter of authorship and opinion: The Annals of Aman were said to be written by Rumil in the Elder Days, and held in memory by the Exiles, and parts remembered were set down in Numenor before the Shadow fell upon it. Could it be that Rumil esteemed Feanor so highly? while another author rather noted the greatness of Fingolfin and Finarfin in certain areas?

Indeed, with its internal logic, the Silmarillion (and the sources for 1rst age stuff in LotR) is presented to us as a collection of oral tales by many authors passed various imtermediaries and collected by Bilbo in his Translations from the Elvish.

[Lord Alexander]

I dont think there is any doubt that when we consider the broader aspects of evidence that Feanor was indeed the mightiest.
Fingolfin was very close to him but perhaps if it was a one on one with Morgoth, Feanor would have been the victor. He fought on for hours, days who knows... I doubt fingolfin, from what i have read was as mighty as that.

Bottom line if its Fingolfin Vs Feanor in a one on one battle. My money is on Feanor. I cant see Fingolfin bettering Feanor's aggression, skill or eduarance.

Remember Feanor put alot of himself into the Silmarils and was forever diminished after that, whereas fingolfin had not taken any of the light or strength of Aman and put it into any craft. Feanor at his full strength is God like.

[brownjenkins]

Fëanor had the greatest passion for life, while Fingolfin the greatest nobility.

But both held family above all else, so the fight would end in a draw.