Entmoot Presidential Candidates - on the ISSUES

[Valandil]

OK - I'll be fine if one of the other Mods rolls this into the Presidential Campaign thread - but I for one, wanted to find out where the candidates stand on the issues. I request that there be NO CAMPAIGNING in this thread, but that it be used for position statements and - possibly debate on these issues. I will toss some out to begin with - others may certainly add RELEVANT issues of their choosing.

Alright... here we go:

1. What is your position on possible Ent involvement in the military action in Iraq? And - if you think we should get involved, please clarify on which side - and why.

2. What is your position on hybrid plant life?

3. Your position on ethanol and flex-fuel vehicles, please?

4. Cultivated gardens or natural woodlands?

5. How great an author was Tolkien... really?

5a. Couldn't they think of something besides trees - to print further copies of his materials on?

6. What do you think about the 90 second rule?

Thank you.

[Elanor's Angel]

7.) How about, What is their view on the people's, and govenment's rights and powers?

[Valandil]

You must give it a number - or else this will get terribly confusing.

[Jonathan]

This could be interesting. Entmoot involvement in Iraq, lol! You ask some really strange questions here Val

Some of the questions have some more or less obvious answers though.
I'm not an official candidate but I wanna answer the questions anyway

1. If we got involved in Iraq, we'd be on the good guys' side. Duh!

2. What exactly is "hybrid plan life"? Like, genetically manipulated corn?

3. Flex-fuel vehicles are good. Less pollution and less fossil fuels dependence.

4. Natural woodlands. They have more animals than gardens.

5. Tolkien was a great author. Really. He frigging wrote a whole mythology.

5a. Uh, yes they could think of something else than paper but didn't?

6. The 90 second rule rules. If you have a problem with waiting a mere 90 seconds to post, you're living life too fast

[jammi567]

1) I think we should be on the Iraqie side. I mean, the poor ba*tards have suffered long enough, and so we should help free them

2) I think it's good, especially if it means we can grow the perfect plants

3) It's a brilliant idea. Especially as fossil fuels will run out comparactivly soon, and we need to find alternative fuels fast (of course, many of these have already been found - it's just persuading the likes of George Bush and Tonly Blair to use them)

4) Cultrivated gardens - we can grow what we need and want in them

5) Brilliant, even if he did waste loads of paper ( ) to get what he beilieved was the right story

5a) Apparently not

6) Totally scrap it. Or at least reduce it to a more reasonable length, like 30 seconds.

[Valandil]

(EDIT: - these were intended as a response to Jonathan - two posts up)

2. Yes - is it morally right to mess with the created, intended order of plant life - in order to allow more "efficiency" for some Humans somewhere?

3. Is it really better to grow plants in order to burn them as fuel ... instead of burning the remains of animal life which hasn't lived since we Ents were young?

6. Well - you stole my thunder on this one. I was hoping to trip up some of the Candidates here... so that if they pandered to the masses, we could accuse them of advocating "hastiness"

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Is the esteemed moderator trying to divide entmoot voters along gender lines?

I get the feeling the answers to these questions will serve to separate Ents from Entwives, but to what end?

We want candidates for the future of ALL Ents and the possibility of a future for Entings!

[Jonathan]

Ah. So Val - the questions are meant to be answered from the perspective of an Ent?
I think I've seen mooters claim they're Elves rather than Ents though

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Is the esteemed moderator trying to divide entmoot voters along gender lines?

I get the feeling the answers to these questions will serve to separate Ents from Entwives, but to what end?

We want candidates for the future of ALL Ents and the possibility of a future for Entings!

Only Number 4... none of the rest!

[Butterbeer]

sorry Val - but i must genuinely disagree.

The vote for Entmoot figure head / President should NOT involve Political stance to my mind - e.g Iraq etc.

it should be about Tolkien (and your question about him I think is a good one)


and it should ALL be about the Moot and the Mooters - the voters and the Mooters.

...and ALL about the lack of polls -

- the 94 pm rule -

-the lack of Shoutbox - all common upgrades for v bulletin.

About the possibility of a Moot elected Mod ( a people's Mod or rather a Mooter's Mod) and the scandalous clique of Mod appointments - I.E. Sunstar for CS lewis and my good self (BB for RPG -yet we see a mostly absent rpg-er (Tessar appointed!) - what gives???

(No offence to Tessar - i have always (99% ) respected him and enjoyed his posts but he is already a mod ... cliquey or what? there were plenty of good non-Mod candidates - XK - Shah, Willow, myself , Acally, Gor, - btw -whatever happened to dear Serenoli? Lotsy, Komrade K and even Lief etc etc ?

Put simply, the campaign should be purely and simply about defending a much loved forum into the future, and ensuring it is a much loved forum in the future.

Politics and general messages topics, to my mind should be avoided as a matter of upmost principle.

Best, BB

[Butterbeer]

Come to think of it, Tolkien was essentially, to all intensive purposes English - a not invaluable Moot contrinution group in themselves -

-that also makes him technically (in a funy old way) European - and given Middle Earth's proto-geography and folk roots - i'd suggest that is something we all should consider -

given that - baring the good Earniel- just how many mods and Admins here are are either European or British?

if you want candidate standpoints? - THAT is an issue i'd like to see somewhat re-addressed here!

and a non-American or European team member might be an idea! .. or do you think it is only western Europe or American centric, Tolkien's worlds and literature??

Best, BB

[Valandil]

Sorry BB - none of your questions can be considered because you didn't number them.

Besides - I don't see what they have to do with Ents.

As for getting "political" - I just thought the Entmoot hereabouts ought to decide what we do (or at least - what the candidate stances are on the Ents marching forth to war) about this current "Man-War" situation, just like another Entmoot in times past (3019 Third Age, specifically) - had to decide what to do about a "Man-War" in their own time.

And sorry... this is just about Entmoot Presidency. Moderators and Administrators are selected differently. If you don't like how it's done here - sorry. But that's not what the election is about, and it's not what this thread is about.

[Elanor's Angel]

I think we should have canidate debates...

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Valandil

OK - I'll be fine if one of the other Mods rolls this into the Presidential Campaign thread - but I for one, wanted to find out where the candidates stand on the issues. I request that there be NO CAMPAIGNING in this thread, but that it be used for position statements and - possibly debate on these issues. I will toss some out to begin with - others may certainly add RELEVANT issues of their choosing.

Alright... here we go:

1. What is your position on possible Ent involvement in the military action in Iraq? And - if you think we should get involved, please clarify on which side - and why.

2. What is your position on hybrid plant life?

3. Your position on ethanol and flex-fuel vehicles, please?

4. Cultivated gardens or natural woodlands?

5. How great an author was Tolkien... really?

5a. Couldn't they think of something besides trees - to print further copies of his materials on?

6. What do you think about the 90 second rule?

Thank you.

1. (Fangorn)When we finish saying good morning and taking the roll, we may decide to ask if you're still about it.(Fimbrethil) I doubt it. There are fruit trees sprouting now that will need attention by then.
2.(Fangorn)Some plants seek their own kind and some cross widely. All are beautiful to me. (Fimbrethil) Silly Ents, rest in their forests and never know the pleasure of creation and plenty. The Eldar taught us more than to speak, they gave some of us a love of doing. If you can cross plants to make better ones, what joy!
3.(Fangorn) Noise and steam and destruction, all of them. It is better to know where you're going than to rush and decide later. (Fimbrethil) I agree.
4.(Fangorn)Never could we improve on the beauty we are given. (Fimbrethil) Lazy loafers. Why be tree shepards if no guidance is required? A garden has the beauty of a creation matched to a creator.
5.(Fangorn) He could not take credit for us. We exist beyond him, and spoke through him.(Fimrethil) So say you, who cannot conceive of the power of will.
5a. (Fanghorn) All hastiness. He could not wait to tell his story and teach it to others. What can one learn about the Ents in a lifetime as brief as Man's? (Frimbrethil)Paper is part of the cycle. Men plant more for paper than they ever did for shade.
6.(both) What is 90 seconds?

Transcribed from the Elvish by sis.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

:
:
:
6.(both) What is 90 seconds?

Good one!

[Elanor's Angel]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

1. (Fangorn)When we finish saying good morning and taking the roll, we may decide to ask if you're still about it.(Fimbrethil) I doubt it. There are fruit trees sprouting now that will need attention by then.
2.(Fangorn)Some plants seek their own kind and some cross widely. All are beautiful to me. (Fimbrethil) Silly Ents, rest in their forests and never know the pleasure of creation and plenty. The Eldar taught us more than to speak, they gave some of us a love of doing. If you can cross plants to make better ones, what joy!
3.(Fangorn) Noise and steam and destruction, all of them. It is better to know where you're going than to rush and decide later. (Fimbrethil) I agree.
4.(Fangorn)Never could we improve on the beauty we are given. (Fimbrethil) Lazy loafers. Why be tree shepards if no guidance is required? A garden has the beauty of a creation matched to a creator.
5.(Fangorn) He could not take credit for us. We exist beyond him, and spoke through him.(Fimrethil) So say you, who cannot conceive of the power of will.
5a. (Fanghorn) All hastiness. He could not wait to tell his story and teach it to others. What can one learn about the Ents in a lifetime as brief as Man's? (Frimbrethil)Paper is part of the cycle. Men plant more for paper than they ever did for shade.
6.(both) What is 90 seconds?

Transcribed from the Elvish by sis.

That's beautiful! *Wipes away tear* Almost biblical!
Eccept fot the 90 second rule thing. IT MUST DIE!!! And I don't even mean completely, just... I don't know, 30 seconds maybe? I think it would limit spam, but not be quite so maddening when I have something to say....

[Finrod Felagund]

1. What is your position on possible Ent involvement in the military action in Iraq? And - if you think we should get involved, please clarify on which side - and why.

Well, I'm not sure if you mean action by us of the Entmoot, or Tolkien's Ents.

2. What is your position on hybrid plant life?
I believe it is something that needs to be studied and monitored, but I don't see it as evil perse.

3. Your position on ethanol and flex-fuel vehicles, please?
Please bring them on. Fossil fuels will not last forever, nor will our environment...(though I think the Ozone/Global Warming thing is a bit blown-up) But the sooner we implement these new technologies, the better.

4. Cultivated gardens or natural woodlands?
Both have their place. It really depends on your purpose. Example: Growing vegetables? Well the forest ain't going to yield you any tomatoes. Like hiking? You may want something bigger than your flower-bed.

5. How great an author was Tolkien... really?
I prefer to call Tolkien a historian. Tolkien did something that no one had really done bfore, and many have tried to emulate since. He created an entire myhtology, complete with timelines, maps and several languages, two of them HUGELY developed. It was a huge world, and had many races, each with their own culture, songs and stories.
As for his writing style itself; he was a very descriptive authour, allowing readers to picture everything beautifully in their heads.

5a. Couldn't they think of something besides trees - to print further copies of his materials on?
Sure, recycled paper?

6. What do you think about the 90 second rule?
I think that 60 seconds is more than ample. Some people read very fast and write very fast, and are not spammers. Really if someone wants to spam, they'll do it after 90 or 60 or 10 seconds anyways. So why make the good posts wait?

[Nurvingiel]

As an Elf, I will try not to be too presumptuous in speaking for my tree brothers and sisters, Ents and Entwives.

Originally Posted by Valandil

1. What is your position on possible Ent involvement in the military action in Iraq? And - if you think we should get involved, please clarify on which side - and why.

Well, the Ents are very unlikely to get involved in a conflict that does not directly involve them. Even if Iraq did impact the Ents, it takes something highly unusual (like two very unique Hobbits) to get them going. The Entmoot is a unique blend of different races, I don't think we should try to force our Ent members into a situation that they wouldn't support.

More importantly, while Ents are extremely fearsome when roused, I think that modern weapons would be too much for even their thick-barked skins. Ents and Entwives are good people, and they do help others for the sake of helping other good beings. However in this case, I feel that asking them to fight this war is not fair. Their numbers have been declining for many years. Let the Ents and Entwives heal their own wounds as a people, and continue to do what is necessary for survival, their search for each other.

Originally Posted by Valandil

2. What is your position on hybrid plant life?

This is a fairly broad question, but generally I am for hybrid plant life. Plants hybridise naturally, such as hybrids of roses, or huckleberries and blueberries. This is completely natural and of course we shouldn't try to change this process. In agriculture, people can manipulate this process to imporove crop species such as apples and other orchard species, grapes, and many others. I believe that Hobbits are experts at this technology.

Originally Posted by Valandil

3. Your position on ethanol and flex-fuel vehicles, please?

This is an excellent use of technology which reduces our dependence on fossil fuels. These technologies, as well as other alternative fuels such as hydrogen, uranium, solar, and others, should be explored and developped. Let's see what works, what's safe, and what's efficient and imporove transportation for everyone.

Originally Posted by Valandil

4. Cultivated gardens or natural woodlands?

Personally I am fond of natural woodlands. Overall in a landscape, we need both. Cultivated gardens in cities, where a natural woodland couldn't exist, can provide food and urban greenery. The natural woodlands allow recreation opportunities and a chance for people to visit nature for some peace of mind. Even if people don't have the opportunity to visit the forests, people feel good simply knowing that there are wild lands out there. Meanwhile, cultivated gardens can provide food for us efficiently, which allows us to avoid expanding farmlands into the forests.

Originally Posted by Valandil

5. How great an author was Tolkien... really?

Incredibly and amazingly great. Do you really need to ask? I could point out that he inspired a generation of fantasy authors, but we already know that here. Suffice to say that I feel that Tolkien is one of the greatest author of all time.

Originally Posted by Valandil

5a. Couldn't they think of something besides trees - to print further copies of his materials on?

There are eBooks, though nothing can replace the wonderful feel of a book. My hope is that all his books will be published on Forest Stewardship Council certified lumber. I think Tolkien would be happy knowing that the trees for his books were harvested sustainably, in a way that allowed the forest to continue functioning in a natural way.

Originally Posted by Valandil

6. What do you think about the 90 second rule?

I don't really mind the 90 second rule. While there are no spammity members of this board, the occasional bot or spammer will wander through our fair glades. At that time, perhaps the 90 second rule helps keep to many rubbish posts out of our lovely forests. I think it serves a purpose that us regular Mooters can't really observe. It's occasionally annoying, but the benefits outweigh the costs.

Originally Posted by Valandil

Thank you.

Thank you for your great questions!

Originally Posted by Elanor's Angel

7.) How about, What is their view on the people's, and govenment's rights and powers?

Good question Elanor. I think that there is an important balance between rights and powers that must be maintained. The government needs enough power so that it can protect its citizens rights, but they cannot have too much power. Too much power would leave them susceptible to corruption, which would cause them to tread on the rights of its citizens that it should be protecting.

[Elanor's Angel]

I like your responses Nurv! But I'm still sick of the rule...

[Butterbeer]

ah, well Val, i fear, that i, as did Finrod misread your intention with 'Ents' taking it to mean those here gathered - and a less hasty bunch did you ever meet!

As Ents go i'd say we are a hasty lot - rarely if ever does the 90 second rule bug me - but i see no reason not to make it 60"

to the ents marching to Iraq - NO.
(i am not a number i am a free man)

Ents should not be supremo-geneticists - we all are hybrids to some degree

As a brother hybrid i take exception to the slavery of our cousins

Natural woodlands - i'm a bloke

really? What are you implying?

pULP? I agree brother - STOP THE WANTON SLAUGHTER!

60"

Thank you too - may your draughts curl hobbit hair till your sap becomes as the exiliar of the great moss-bearded original Acorn!