Harry Potter - Page 11

TwirlingString · 03-13-2003, 04:50 PM

Shes not an over-chiever, she just has an unrealistic view of what they're actually expected to know. Plus she does find everything interesting so *shrugs*

sun-star · 03-13-2003, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Shes not an over-chiever, she just has an unrealistic view of what they're actually expected to know. Plus she does find everything interesting so *shrugs*

Yeah, if I found myself at Hogwarts I'd want to read up on everything too!

eowyngirl14 · 03-13-2003, 05:08 PM

**mutters** I could be as smart as Hermione if I had the motivation!!

Estel13 · 03-13-2003, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eowyngirl14
**mutters** I could be as smart as Hermione if I had the motivation!!

Finmandos12 · 03-17-2003, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Yeah, if I found myself at Hogwarts I'd want to read up on everything too!

So would I. That way I could kill everyone with magic.

eowyngirl14 · 03-18-2003, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Finmandos12
So would I. That way I could kill everyone with magic.

then you would be expelled and they would break your wand....

Sicirus · 03-20-2003, 07:04 AM

If I found myself at Hogwarts and was a witch I would learn as much about Magical creaures and potions as I could. But I would really try to become an animagus. (wolf)

***azalea*** · 06-25-2004, 10:37 PM

Hmm, this thread seemed to get contentious on the last coupla pages, but anyway...

Just posting to say I am on ch. 6 of Sorcerer's Stone, and I love it! I'll write more of my impressions later, as I know you all really care to hear them.

Well, I think it's fun to hear other people's first impressions of books or what have you, so I thought I'd generously share mine in this case!

***azalea*** · 06-30-2004, 11:17 PM

Okay, I finished it, and I'm so upset -- all of the copies of Chamber of Secrets at my library were OUT! So I have to wait until one comes in to read it!

I'm going tomorrow, and I'm hoping for a happy surprise.

Here are some general thoughts I had while reading the book, in no particular order.

First, the controversy: I can see why a lot of people thought this book "promotes witchcraft," but my take on it is that the book is obviously a fantasy story, using traditional storybook traits of witches and wizards as its premise. Things like carrying around toads and riding on broomsticks are just her way of painting the picture of her fantasy world with familiar fairy tale notions, and give an avenue for her character development.

I trust that children know the difference between reality and fantasy enough by the time they are at this reading level that they would no more try to perform spells than sit in a wardrobe waiting to be transported to Narnia after reading LWW. The tricky area is imaginary play. The child might play as if he has these powers, but I think that is probably as harmless as his pretending to be a superhero. As long as parents are involved and are actively teaching the difference between fantasy and reality, there shouldn't be a problem. From a moral standpoint, the parent has an opportunity to highlight the family's spiritual beliefs in contrast to what is presented in the book. I think it provides a teachable moment for the family of faith. Plus, there is the very prominent line drawn in the story between the "good" and "bad" sides -- it's just a twist on the classic good versus evil theme.

The danger lies in the child who is having a difficult time socially, or has a very weak family structure in place and becomes obsessed with the idea of having these powers. However, I submit that the problem in this case doesn't lie with the book itself, but rather with the child and his support system.

I think what highlights the negative as far as the use of witchcraft is that Muggles are generally looked down upon, and the witches and wizards present themselves as superior. To me, their having that attitude is actually more harmful for the impressionable reader (from a morality perspective) than their use of magic, etc. Snobbery by the powerful "good" characters toward the regular folks sends a message that just doesn't sit well with me.

The other thing that I think is a sticking point, one which is my main issue with the book in terms of morality, is that Harry continually breaks the rules, and is continually rewarded (in various ways) for doing so! This continues from the time he enters Hogwarts to the very climax of the book, and we discover that the most venerable character in the book has kind of set it up this way. I think this message is infinitely more harmful (than the "unreal" lesson of "witchcraft is good") to children reading the book in terms of a takeaway moral lesson --it says it is necessary and desirable to break rules to accomplish your goals, or accomplishing your personal goals is more important than following the rules set down by a trustworthy authority. There is hardly ever ultimately a negative consequence for him when he breaks the rules, it always turns out to his benefit in some way.

I really didn't like his attitude toward some of the other children, either. His compassion towards Ron is sharply contrasted with his immediate rudeness toward Hermione (at first) and even his malice toward Malfoy. Granted, Malfoy is a snob and bully, but Harry seems to encourage the animosity between them rather than try to avoid it. The worst, though, was the part where he pairs up with someone in a class or something, and is glad because "Neville had been trying to catch his eye."

Now, I know that it was mostly because of Neville's clumsiness that Harry didn't want to do whatever spell it was with him (I can't quite remember), but I think Rowling needed to make that more clear, because at first glance, and perhaps to a lot of kids, it sounds like it's only because Neville is the class outcast. That is such a sensitive thing, because I think labeling a character as such, then having the beloved lead character purposely avoid him because of it is a missed opportunity -- in the end we can see how the three main characters' interactions have had a positive influence by their interactions with Neville throughout the book, but she could have made Harry a little less like this

towards him and more like this

. Anyway, it was just a minor thing that really stood out to me.
Then again, I suppose it makes his character more natural.

There were only a few other minor glitches in the story that really don't matter in a children's book, but that are kind of noticable to the adult reader (I can't think of what they were right now, though). It might be her use of certain classic devices, or the fact that Harry is so "special" AND a "hero" (I'm thinking of Quiddich here, among other things). It's just more fun when a kid like Neville or Ron does something heroic. You can see why (if the spoilers I've read here are any indication) Snape didn't like Harry's dad! Popular, skilled at sports and wizardry, and good-looking... and then saves his life (IOW, he ended up needing James). I think we all get a little irritated at people who seem to be too "perfect," and seem to flaunt it in our faces!

Anyway, the bottom line is that I think it was an excellent story, and a well-written book. Rowling certainly has a good imagination and is clever in terms of creating a good mystery and a tied-together storyline (not to mention characters who really come to life on the pages). I'm really glad I finally got to read it!

03-13-2003, 04:50 PM	#201
TwirlingString Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: My mother would say somewhere between the adult mystery section and the YA sci-fi Posts: 489	Shes not an over-chiever, she just has an unrealistic view of what they're actually expected to know. Plus she does find everything interesting so shrugs __________________ "The Astels are an emotional people. They cry at the drop of a handkerchief. Their culture is much like that of Pelosia. They're extremely devot and invincibly backward. It's been demonstrated to them over an over that serfdom is an archaic, inefficent institution, but they maintain it anyway--largely at the connivance of the serfs thmselves. Astellian nobles don't exert themselves in any way, so they have no concept of human endurance. The serfs take advantage of that outrageously. Astellian serfs have been known to collapse from sheer exhauston at the very mention of such unpleasant words as 'reaping' or 'digging'." ----------------------------------------------- “They lost him?!” Lupin asked , amazed. “Voldemort has been after Harry for 15 years, and then he misplaces him?!”

03-13-2003, 05:08 PM	#203
eowyngirl14 i don't know what i am talking about either, so don't ask Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,353	mutters I could be as smart as Hermione if I had the motivation!! __________________ 'The coming of dawn is ever the hope to the heart of men' -Aragorn 'Then I will die as one of them' -Aragorn TTT movie “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety” - Benjamin Franklin arms are made for hugging avatar from the avatar shop! made by Eowyn, Lady of Rohan

03-20-2003, 07:04 AM	#207
Sicirus Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Down the road on your left...No your other left. Posts: 1,825	If I found myself at Hogwarts and was a witch I would learn as much about Magical creaures and potions as I could. But I would really try to become an animagus. (wolf) __________________ "I know less then half of you half as well as I should like. And I like less then half of you half as well as you deserve." Bilbo Baggins

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06-25-2004, 10:37 PM	#208
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Hmm, this thread seemed to get contentious on the last coupla pages, but anyway... Just posting to say I am on ch. 6 of Sorcerer's Stone, and I love it! I'll write more of my impressions later, as I know you all really care to hear them. Well, I think it's fun to hear other people's first impressions of books or what have you, so I thought I'd generously share mine in this case!

06-30-2004, 11:17 PM	#209
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Okay, I finished it, and I'm so upset -- all of the copies of Chamber of Secrets at my library were OUT! So I have to wait until one comes in to read it! I'm going tomorrow, and I'm hoping for a happy surprise. Here are some general thoughts I had while reading the book, in no particular order. First, the controversy: I can see why a lot of people thought this book "promotes witchcraft," but my take on it is that the book is obviously a fantasy story, using traditional storybook traits of witches and wizards as its premise. Things like carrying around toads and riding on broomsticks are just her way of painting the picture of her fantasy world with familiar fairy tale notions, and give an avenue for her character development. I trust that children know the difference between reality and fantasy enough by the time they are at this reading level that they would no more try to perform spells than sit in a wardrobe waiting to be transported to Narnia after reading LWW. The tricky area is imaginary play. The child might play as if he has these powers, but I think that is probably as harmless as his pretending to be a superhero. As long as parents are involved and are actively teaching the difference between fantasy and reality, there shouldn't be a problem. From a moral standpoint, the parent has an opportunity to highlight the family's spiritual beliefs in contrast to what is presented in the book. I think it provides a teachable moment for the family of faith. Plus, there is the very prominent line drawn in the story between the "good" and "bad" sides -- it's just a twist on the classic good versus evil theme. The danger lies in the child who is having a difficult time socially, or has a very weak family structure in place and becomes obsessed with the idea of having these powers. However, I submit that the problem in this case doesn't lie with the book itself, but rather with the child and his support system. I think what highlights the negative as far as the use of witchcraft is that Muggles are generally looked down upon, and the witches and wizards present themselves as superior. To me, their having that attitude is actually more harmful for the impressionable reader (from a morality perspective) than their use of magic, etc. Snobbery by the powerful "good" characters toward the regular folks sends a message that just doesn't sit well with me. The other thing that I think is a sticking point, one which is my main issue with the book in terms of morality, is that Harry continually breaks the rules, and is continually rewarded (in various ways) for doing so! This continues from the time he enters Hogwarts to the very climax of the book, and we discover that the most venerable character in the book has kind of set it up this way. I think this message is infinitely more harmful (than the "unreal" lesson of "witchcraft is good") to children reading the book in terms of a takeaway moral lesson --it says it is necessary and desirable to break rules to accomplish your goals, or accomplishing your personal goals is more important than following the rules set down by a trustworthy authority. There is hardly ever ultimately a negative consequence for him when he breaks the rules, it always turns out to his benefit in some way. I really didn't like his attitude toward some of the other children, either. His compassion towards Ron is sharply contrasted with his immediate rudeness toward Hermione (at first) and even his malice toward Malfoy. Granted, Malfoy is a snob and bully, but Harry seems to encourage the animosity between them rather than try to avoid it. The worst, though, was the part where he pairs up with someone in a class or something, and is glad because "Neville had been trying to catch his eye." Now, I know that it was mostly because of Neville's clumsiness that Harry didn't want to do whatever spell it was with him (I can't quite remember), but I think Rowling needed to make that more clear, because at first glance, and perhaps to a lot of kids, it sounds like it's only because Neville is the class outcast. That is such a sensitive thing, because I think labeling a character as such, then having the beloved lead character purposely avoid him because of it is a missed opportunity -- in the end we can see how the three main characters' interactions have had a positive influence by their interactions with Neville throughout the book, but she could have made Harry a little less like this towards him and more like this . Anyway, it was just a minor thing that really stood out to me. Then again, I suppose it makes his character more natural. There were only a few other minor glitches in the story that really don't matter in a children's book, but that are kind of noticable to the adult reader (I can't think of what they were right now, though). It might be her use of certain classic devices, or the fact that Harry is so "special" AND a "hero" (I'm thinking of Quiddich here, among other things). It's just more fun when a kid like Neville or Ron does something heroic. You can see why (if the spoilers I've read here are any indication) Snape didn't like Harry's dad! Popular, skilled at sports and wizardry, and good-looking... and then saves his life (IOW, he ended up needing James). I think we all get a little irritated at people who seem to be too "perfect," and seem to flaunt it in our faces! Anyway, the bottom line is that I think it was an excellent story, and a well-written book. Rowling certainly has a good imagination and is clever in terms of creating a good mystery and a tied-together storyline (not to mention characters who really come to life on the pages). I'm really glad I finally got to read it!