Why the big deal?

[Wayfarer]

Ive often wondered this: Why did everybody make such a big deal about the silmarils?

I mean, the ring at least gave power, but as far as i can tell, the silmarils were just really bright jewels. I mean... Feanor taking pride in his work is one thing, and the valar wanting them to restore the trees is completely justified, but I find the fact that morgoth went to all the trouble of stealing them a bit confusing . And Thingol/Dior getting gondor trashed just to wear a pretty necklace? Laughable.

I'm wondering what everybody else thinks about this.

[afro-elf]

Being the cynical bastard that I am, I tend to agree with you.

[afro-elf]

I have a distaste for jewelry anyway. But I suppose that maybe their beauty was SO exemplery that it could be an obession to behold.

I think that I could driven to such action out of love of mate, child, parents or dear friends or a group consciousness loyality.

but for a material object I severly doubt i'd be driven to that kind of obession


but TRULY harm one of the above....

[afro-elf]

I don't have the SIL.

Is this what happened. Thingol asked the dwarves to make a crown to hold Silmilril and after they saw it in the crown they sakced the city to get it?


so how did the dwarves get through melian's girdle? ( stop laughing perverts)

did she die in the sack?


so the dwarves defeated the elves?


what happened to the silmiril?

[Ñólendil]

No one knows for sure how the quarrel between Thingol and the Dwarves played out. What appears in the published Silmarillion was basically balderdash, a making of Christopher Tolkien's which he regretted. We just have a passage from The Hobbit and the original story of the older mythos to go on. Somehow Thingol quarreled with the Dwarves after they forged the Nauglamir. Eventually Elu was induced to go to war beyond his borders or was lured out by something and was murdered by the Dwarves, Melian took the Silmaril and delivered it to her daughter Lúthien in Ossiriand, before departing from Middle-earth in grief. After this the Girdle of Melian was lifted and the Dwarves ravaged Doriath.

If I remember right, the Silmaril was passed on to Dior Lúthien's son, and Dior (with wife Nimloth and three children) went back to Doriath where he ruled for a while (this being after the Dwarves were destroyed by Beren and his army of Ents). When the remaining sons of Feanor attacked Menegroth two of Dior's three children perished, one (Elwing) was saved. The people of Doriath fled to the Havens of Sirion and there met the exiles of the fallen Gondolin, Earendli son of Idril among them. That's where Elwing met Earendil, they were of course Elrond and Elros's parents.

Eventually the Havens too were sacked by the remaining (if you ask me three) sons of Feanor. Earendil was away at sea and Elwing was back at home with the Silmaril. Elrond and Elros were kidnapped, but Maedros (Faenor's eldest son) actually took care of them. Elwing leaped into the Sea to escape the Sons, and was rescued by Ulmo Lord of Waters, he changed her into the shape of a bird before she flew to Earendil. As the legend goes, Earendil was able to reach the Blessed Realm to beg for help from the Powers against the Dark Enemy Morgoth because of Elwing and the Silmaril. The Silmaril later was set in the prow of the ship and became the Evening Star.

My memory may be a bit off.

[Wayfarer]

Allright, this is what happened:

Thingol recieved the Silmaril from Beren.

Thingol also recieved a large amount of gold from nargothrond (courtesy of Hurin Thalion, if memory serves me). This gold had been cursed by mim the petty dwarf, and caused anyone who looked upon it to be striken with greed.

Now, Thingol hired the dwarves of Nogrod to forge a neclace from the gold, and set the silmaril therein. This necklace became known as the nauglimir. He allowed the dwarves into his realm in order to complete this work.

When the dwarves were finisihed, they brought the nauglimir to thingol, and asked for thier pay. Thingol, being the diplomatic fellow that he was, politely told them to shove off. They killed him on the spot, and fled.

With lies and exageration, they convinced the dwarves of nogrod to attack doriath. The dwarves of belegost refused.

Now, in her sorrow over thingol's death, Melian dropped her girdle. (um... right... kiddy forum) Thus the invading dwarves were able to march right into doriath, and appearently the elves were grown fat and lazy. Or mayby it's just that turin got all their good fighters killed. In any case, the dwarves triumphed, doriath was deserted, and carried off the treasury, including the nauglimir and the remainder of the cursed cold, back to nogrod.

beren and luthien caught them halfway, killed them all, and took the nauglimir, leaving the gold in a stream.

There's more... but that's all that involves thingol and the dwarves.

As an aside... Inolondil, did you get the silmaril pic I sent to you a few days ago? I'm still waiting for your opinion.

[Ñólendil]

Yes, I've gotten your e-mails, but one thing drives out another as you'll admit. I'll get to responding as soon as I can.

[Wayfarer]

One more thing... melian did not 'die in the sack' ]:) after, or perhaps before, the dwarvish assault, she returned to aman.

No worries, dyl. I have all the time in the world. :) There are advantages to elvish blood.

[Ñólendil]

Before. She could not very well return to Aman after the sack, as it could not occur unless she and her power were gone.

[Sister Golden Hair]

The Nauglamir was made for Finrod Felegund by the Dwarves of Ered Luin. After they aided him in the building of Nargothrond, he rewarded them with many jewels that he had brought with him from Valinor. They made the Nauglamir, and placed these jewels within it. After Nargothrond was destroyed and Turin killed the dragon, Mim, of the Petty Dwarves came to Nargothrond and laid claim to it and to Felagund's treasure. After a time, Hurin came along and klled Mim. He went into the wasted halls and stayed awhile, but when he left, he took only the Nauglamir. He then went to Doriath and gave it to Thingol, at first in anger. Thingol hired the Dwarves of the Ered Luin to refashion the necklace and to place the Silmaril in it that he received from Beren, which they did. Once the Silmaril was in it, and Thingol placed it about his neck, and they saw the bueaty of the necklace, they decided to lay claim to it, since they were the ones that made the necklace to begin with for Finrod who was now dead. They rose up against Thingol, and killed him. this is when Melian fled to Aman and the Girdle of Enchantment around the kingdom was lifted.

[Ñólendil]

The Nauglamir was made for Finrod Felegund by the Dwarves of Ered Luin.

This is only true of the Silmarillion as published. J. R. R. Tolkien never had this idea (that I know of), he said that the NauglamÃ*r was forged by the Dwarves for Thingol in Doriath. That is one of the things Christopher Tolkien changed (and regretted). He talks about it in The War of the Jewels.

The rest of your post is of course on the money for the published Silmarillion (though I have not read that particular chapter in some time), but it is not JRR Tolkien's version of events, of which we have some fragments to go on.

[Sister Golden Hair]

The Silmarils were a big deal, because they held the light of the Two Trees of Aman.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Inoldonil
Yes, I've gotten your e-mails, but one thing drives out another as you'll admit. I'll get to responding as soon as I can.

You remind me of Barliman Butterbur.

[easterlinge]

"A worthy man, but a mind like a lumber-room. Thing wanted always buried. If he forgets, I shall roast him!!"

-Gandalf's Letter to Frodo-

Do I smell burning?

[Ñólendil]

Save me!

[afro-elf]

thanks for the info

ps. SGH

do you have something against Finrod?

i recall something about a discussion between and kirinki 54?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by afro-elf
thanks for the info

ps. SGH

do you have something against Finrod?

i recall something about a discussion between and kirinki 54?

Oh dear oh dear, no. not at all!! Finrod is my absolute favorite. Just ask Kirinki, and Inoldonil. If he was real, I would find him, and marry him.

[Wayfarer]

I think he's a bit to old for you. ]:)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
I think he's a bit to old for you. ]

That's ok. I can't talk about this, because Inoldonil will throw popcorn at me.

[Wayfarer]

Who? Him? Don't worry, I've got the dirt on _that_ fellow.

Just take a look at this Juicy Pic