feanor a villian

[Blackheart]

Gee, you could say the same thing about morgoth and sauron.

It relates back to Feanor anyway. Being "corrupted" doesn't absolve someone of responsibility for their actions.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Blackheart
Being "corrupted" doesn't absolve someone of responsibility for their actions.

No, being "corrupted" doesn't absolve Feanor (et al) of his responsibility. BUT, corruption IS a good excuse to pass the buck, or at least share the blame with someone. Anyone want to corrupt me?

And just to reiterate, NO I do not think that Feanor is a villain. A corrupted evil bugger maybe, but not a villain. It's not like he had any world domination plans... really.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I would agree with corrupted bugger, but I would take the evil out. Evil implies villain.

[BeardofPants]

...but I would take the evil out. Evil implies villain.

2. That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.

Someone who is of an evil leaning, does not necessarily have to be a villain. I'm basing my classification of Feanor's evil mainly on the above definition.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Okay, second definition then. Reminds me of studying for the SAT's

[Willow Oran]

I never liked Feanor as a character but I wouldn't call him evil. I think he's extremely corrupted, homicidally insane, overly prideful, and a general nusiance to everybody around him. But if he had repented I think the valar would have forgiven him. He was not evil to the point of being irredeemable, however, it would have taken a long time before he had completely atoned for all the bad things he did. As for the oath he and his sons swore. He might not have had the power to release them from it. But he could have made them swear a stronger oath to repent of their previous oath. Then they would have had to break the first one in order to avoid being oath breakers. That idea probably makes about as much sense as adopting a cat in order to keep other cats out of the garden does, but it's sort of feasible.

[Ñólendil]

I never liked Feanor as a character but I wouldn't call him evil. I think he's extremely corrupted, homicidally insane, overly prideful, and a general nusiance to everybody around him.

I would define that as evil. Not completely evil (can anyone be completely evil, that began untainted?), but evil nonetheless: morally corrupt to an extreme degree

[Sister Golden Hair]

Feanor was not evil. Feanor was obssessed.

From the Peoples of Middle-earth:

Feanor loved his mother dearly, except in obstinancy their characters were widely different. He was not gentle. He was proud and hot tempered, and opposition to his will he met not with the quiet steadfastness of his mother but with fierce resentment. He was restless in mind and body, though like Miriel he could become wholly absorbed in work of the finest skill of hand, but he left many things unfinished. Feanaro was his mother-name, which Miriel gave him in recognition of his impetuous charater (it meant 'spirit of fire'). While she lived she did much with gentle counsel to soften and restrain him. Her death was a lasting grief to Feanor, and both directly and by its further consequences a main cause of his later disastrous influence on the history of the Noldor.

[Archbob the Elder]

Feanor was not evil, but his pride destroyed him and many of the Nolder.

[Ñólendil]

One may be evil and obsessed at the same time. The spirit of Faenor was in fact so evil that Manwe withheld his judgement of the man after his death and passed on his grave case to the One. Faenor was a corrupt person, spiritually. There's no two ways about it. He was not always so, but noone is.

[Sister Golden Hair]

From the Peoples of Middle-earth:

Feanor loved his mother dearly, except in obstinancy their characters were widely different. He was not gentle. He was proud and hot tempered, and opposition to his will he met not with the quiet steadfastness of his mother but with fierce resentment. He was restless in mind and body, though like Miriel he could become wholly absorbed in work of the finest skill of hand, but he left many things unfinished. Feanaro was his mother-name, which Miriel gave him in recognition of his impetuous charater (it meant 'spirit of fire'). While she lived she did much with gentle counsel to soften and restrain him. Her death was a lasting grief to Feanor, and both directly and by its further consequences a main cause of his later disastrous influence on the history of the Noldor.

[Blackheart]

Sigh.

If my mommy died on me, some evil bastard stole my toys and whacked my dad and I resolved to quest until I got some justice it's one thing.

If I then however use my skills to trick and pervert people into helping me, because of my own selfish ends, and for spite, then that approaches evil.

If I maroon the malcontents, putting them at risk, and perhaps even hoping they will die, that's evil.

If I then bequeth my sins to my children, and allow them no absolution, that's pretty hideous.

I don't care what the arguments for extenuating circumstances are, both his actions and his motivations fall under the heading of evil.

[Sister Golden Hair]

I think prideful, warped, and misguided are more fiting then evil.

[Blackheart]

That just tells us how he is.

Unfortunately, it tells us nothing about his actions.

His actions are what count. I could kill you all out of love, but does that matter one whit?

[Ñólendil]

Thank you, Xandre.

[Urksnik the Sleek]

I would say that Feanor was proud, greedy, and selfish, all characteristics which caused his ultimate corruption.
You could blame Morgoth for attacking the trees and destroying their light, but he didn't stop Feanor from surrendering the silmarils to Yavanna to heal the trees. That was purely Feanor's own decision. He placed love of objects above love of people.
there is also the factor the Feanor never trusted Morgoth, but was still influenced sufficiently by his lies that his actions were, to an extent based on those lies.
I would say that while influcenced by Morgoth, Feanor was ultimately responsible for his own downfall, and to a large extent the downfall of the Noldor.

[Nilvasaien]

Urksnik the Sleek posted:

"I would say that Feanor was proud, greedy, and selfish, all characteristics which caused his ultimate corruption.
You could blame Morgoth for attacking the trees and destroying their light, but he didn't stop Feanor from surrendering the silmarils to Yavanna to heal the trees. That was purely Feanor's own decision. He placed love of objects above love of people.
there is also the factor the Feanor never trusted Morgoth, but was still influenced sufficiently by his lies that his actions were, to an extent based on those lies.
I would say that while influcenced by Morgoth, Feanor was ultimately responsible for his own downfall, and to a large extent the downfall of the Noldor."

Very well stated; I couldn't agree more. I think Melkor and Feanor were much more alike in character than either would care to admit. Both wanted to be their "father's" one-and-only. Both put their own selfish wants and needs before that of the greater good. And both were ultimately undone by their deeds.

[Christiana]

the Sim:

...Finwe,nor from his heart;and of all whom he loved had ever the chief share of his thought.

and:

...for none of the Eldalie ever hated Melkor more than Feanor son of Finwe,who first named him Morogoth;and snared though he was in the webs of Melkor's malice against the Valar he held no converse with him and took no counsel with him.

[Blackheart]

Just because he never took counsel (but where did he learn to forge swords one wonders) doesn't mean he didn't fall whole heartedly into being manipulated.

Besides. Actions speak louder than words, and his actions were quite plainly evil on several occasions.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Selfish and prideful, perhaps. Certainly leading to ill. But evil?