The Singers Thread

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I just noticed that it sounds like my vibrato has gotten RIDICULOUSLY fast! I didn't notice it at first because... I dunno. I don't think it sounds horrible, but it is definitely a lot faster than it used to be.

Unfortunately your clip didn't work for me So i couldn't hear it.

But my first thought when i read the above was, "Too much air!" Not as in 'airy', but almost like just the opposite. Try relaxing a bit. It seems like you might be holding onto your air too much. Just try it and let me know what you think.

I was trying to make it over-bright in the hopes of letting it then slide back a tiny bit into a richer 'ah' later.

It's possible that this brighter placement was causing some tension? An overly-fast vibrato can be from tension, as well. Perhaps tension in the support musculature? I know you've done a lot of reworking with support recently so this could be it. Perhaps it's just an adjustment period that will pass. But don't mess around too much beyond your normal placement that you know works well for you. You can always tinker around with tone color for effects later on.

My voice just sounds so... friggin'... annoyingly bright. I have no idea if it's something I'm doing wrong, or if that's my natural voice. It's certainly the most free and easy my voice has -felt- in forever, plus when I sing that way my E's and F's are a ton better sounding.

Hmmm.. It's interesting that you bring this up. I have experienced something similar. If my voice is placed too forward, the sound becomes a bit too bright, the vibrato gets faster... but when this happens, i also have stratosphere to burn With my placement in a more 'neutral' position (neither too forward nor too far back), and everything else in place, things feel better, freer ("with ease" ), but it's almost as if i have to kick into that 'brighter' mode in order to access the extreme heights. It's like flipping a switch. I'm not sure whether this is valid or not, and i can't wait to either find a new teacher or else get back with my old one so i can take in this question.

GRRR! When I listen to it through the headphones it sounds too bright, when I listen to it through my laptop's speakers it sounds dark and throaty.

That sounds like it might be more of a a speaker issue than a vocal one.

[Tessar]

Maybe this one will work: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=f...4e75f6e8ebb871


I wish I could keep practicing tonight, but I can't. Boo.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I can relate! I agree, it's not done out of wanting to make fun, it's simply because you know what you're listening to. I imagine math teachers must feel much the same way when I say, "Okay, so... uh.... if x is 4, and y is 5, and the result is 3 outside the square root of 2 then... z is... uh... well... okay, so... x is 4?"

Hahaha! Yeah, you're probably right. Or when English teachers/majors (i know two of them!) correct your grammar!

That is so cool about your family! I just think is really neat to hear voice people analyze their family, because it's what I do too .

Yeah, it's something else that seems to come automatically once you have learned enough about the voice!

[Voronwen]

Drat I think all my firewalls and popup blockers are keeping me from being able to listen to these.

My husband has this place fortressed like Alcatraz!

[Tessar]

Haha, well good for him . Better safe than sorry.

I wonder if I was trying to control my sound too much and not letting the support do its work. I went back to the 'fry' exercise and my voice seems more full and less bright. I think I'll back off the high notes again for a few days while I get my middle register sorted back out. Although of course I'm still doing the staccato 'leu' exercise he gave me for the high notes... that's coming along. The G4 is getting easier, and although it's not good yet, the G#4 is sort of inching its way into existence. :P It definitely helps when it comes to sustaining the notes... it helps my throat see what needs to be done.

I think I was letting it get too 'singing like'. What helped me today was to listen to my recording and then remember what my teacher has said before about, 'stop thinking about how you're going to sing the note, and just make a noise. Don't even sing the note, just make a noise on that pitch.' And sure enough that fixed a few little niggling sound problems that I've been having.

I really think I self sabotage some times because I want to be a great singer so bad that I get into this mind set of, "I will get this if it kills me!" and that doesn't always help when you're practicing . Gives me great drive and motivation, but I gotta learn to be more patient with myself when I practice.


I think I need to start splitting up my practice sessions and plan them better. There are ten billion tiny things I could work on, and I get so overwhelmed that I try to do them all at once and bomb. I think I need to consider trying to do something like 4 15-20 minute sessions a day, and have a focus for each one... something like work heavily on tone production in the first one, focus on vowel resonance during the second one, etc. Eventually I could hopefully stretch the practice sessions to 30 minutes, but I want to start smaller. Assuming I even have the will power to make myself practice four times a day . I can do it. I know I can, because I want to do it. I just have to force myself not to be lazy .

[Tessar]

GOT IT. I feel like a dummy.

All of my problems with an unfocused sound as I ascended to my higher notes?

My tongue.

GRRRRR. I feel stupid as a log for not realizing it!!! My tongue was shifting back... but it was so slight that no amount of looking at myself in the mirror ever revealed it till I suddenly realized today that the strange sensation I was feeling was my tongue moving back just ever so slightly. I mean it was barely shifting back at all... not even enough that you could see a difference till I tilted my head all of the way forward and then I saw... less than a 4th of an inch's difference... I mean it was barely, barely sliding away from my teeth. But it makes a huuuuge difference in my sound.

YAY!!!! I almost started crying when I realized it because I feel like I've finally been able to take an important step and actually fix something for myself... you know? Up till now I've been able to play around but had to sort of say, 'these are my problems, my teacher will have to help me discover which way will fix them' which drove me up the wall because I can always help fix other people's problems. But I finally fixed one for myself .

I really can't blame anyone but myself for this one... no voice teacher would've been able to see the difference in my tongue, and it's my fault for not registering the sensation for what it was. Plus my teachers have ALWAYS said, 'keep your tongue forward, you tend to let it slide back as you ascend.' Because I used to have a huge problem with that... I thought I'd fixed it because I could no longer 'see' it sliding back... but I should've realized that it was still moving back.


EDITED TO SAY: As Eliot from Scrubs would say, brick of frick on a stick! O_o This has changed everything about my high notes. I can actually feel my resonance sliding around differently in my head now, and I can float my high notes somewhat. I sure hope this isn't just a moment of accidental good singing, because I think I just fixed a whole fistful of problems in one swoop.

1. I can sing up to my F#4 without even a hint of 'fog' in my voice
2. My resonance stays more even
3. My voice's coloring seems more even
4. My intonation is perfectly on pitch now for my upper notes
5. I don't have to make an octave leap or think a low note before I can sing the high note, I can just start on any note in my range.

The biggest thing is that now, almost magically, I am able to actually maintain a high tessitura with (relative) ease. Of course I have to keep the support... this change wouldn't be a big deal without the support changes I've recently made, but putting the two together is just friggin amazing.

[Tessar]

I am super excited!!! The little tongue thing that I fixed feels like it has given me an entirely new voice. My range has totally opened up from the top to the bottom, and my sound is SO much more consistent through all of my registers!

I'm working on a piece now that has an F#4 in it and a pretty high tessitura. This piece is more difficult than anything I've sung before in terms of tessitura and requirements for singing the line in a legato fashion. But I can actually sing it... I can't believe what a huge difference the tongue thing has made in my voice, and my teacher almost couldn't either. He was really shocked and happy with what it did.

Really I think that was a huge impediment... somehow I was doing SOMETHING with the root of my tongue (probably depressing) that was just effing up my voice. I've noticed that even my notes down to my G3 are more solid!!!! Unbelievably, even by that G below Middle C I was already doing something wrong, and now that the tongue is out of the way my voice has suddenly opened up.

I actually vocalized a solid G4, and I'm sure I'll be able to sing it pretty soon because the F#4 is singable right now. Like... not just that I can hit it, but I can give it a good coloring and control it instead of just bellowing it out like I've had to in the past.

I'm learning two pieces right now... the difficult one, and an easier one that only goes up to the E4. The choir master said he wants me to do a solo 'very soon', and so we'll see how it goes. If I can get to the point of singing the F#4's with great ease every single time by next week then I'll do that one for the solo, but if not I'll do the easier one that I already know I can sing. My teacher doesn't want me to try to sing the F#'s in public if I have even a sliver of fear about them, because he doesn't want me to psyche myself out. Fingers crossed that I can get over my mental fear of them . I -know- I can do them every time, now, so long as I just keep calm and remind myself that I actually am capable of singing them well now .


The greatest thing was that today I went back to all of the jazz music I love so much and I was actually able to croon it for once! My voice is so connected now all the way to the top notes that I can actually sound smooth and relaxed when I sing. YAY!!!

[Varnafindë]

Tessar, that's absolutely amazing! I'm so happy for you!
And that's one example of where you not only diagnosed your problem, but was able to solve it as well. Well done!

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

I never had any voice teacher, and I'm not likely to try to get one now - but there is a friend of mine who sings in the Oslo Philharmonic Choir (she's an alto of some kind), and perhaps I should tell her about this and ask her whether there are simple things she could teach me.

I met her briefly on Wednesday and mentioned this thread to her, and the new terms I had learnt here - and with the teaching she's had, she knew exactly what you were talking about, for everything I could remember.

I didn't sing for her, but we've been singing together earlier. We used to be colleagues, and five or six of the ladies would sometimes form a small choir to sing Christmas carols at the Christmas party - our firm was making teaching materials for churches. So she agreed that I'm probably a mezzo - she said that most women are.

Perhaps I'll ask her later about teaching me a little - right now she was having a rather busy week. Her choir had met on Monday after the summer, and been told that on Thursday they were to perform in a concert - Beethoven's Ode to Joy! It wasn't new to any of them, but even so it would take some work to bring it up to par. She showed me the music, and pointed out her voice - 2nd Soprano, I think. For one section she would only be singing some long notes - possibly G5.

[Tessar]

Hmmm, I'm not entirely sure I agree with her about most women being mezzos... a real mezzo is a somewhat rare voice, and of course real altos are incredibly, incredibly rare. In my experience most women tend to be sopranos... although a lot of sopranos are not 'high' sopranos and can definitely get away with singing in the mezzo range.

But of course I respect her opinion, and I certainly don't have any 'conclusive' evidence to back up my opinion .

You should definitely try to do some lessons with her! From all of the things you described in earlier posts it sounds like you're what my teacher would call 'someone wired to be a singer' . I'll bet with just a few months of lessons you'd be truly amazed at how much progress you could make. The things you described sound like good technique to me, and aren't things most people tend to find on their own... some people can't even find them with a teacher! I'll bet with a teacher you would make huge leaps very quickly.

[Tessar]

I gave my dad a lesson tonight, and I think the biggest part of the 'drudge' work is over . He sang very nicely tonight, and when I incorporated the 'forward tongue' thing that I just learned for myself, his voice made another leap forward... His tone is getting much more even. I didn't take him above a C, because it's too much for him to process to expect him to keep it together in the upper registers, but soon... I think soon he'll be singing nicely in his upper voice .

The biggest thing we fixed that made a huge difference was that I showed him how you can sing-speak properly. I had him speak the text on pitch, then I told him to just keep the airstream going and BOOM. Solved a big old handful of vocal problems right in one swoop .

Now it's mostly just going in and reminding him of things like when he starts doing his attacks wrong, when he lets off the support, or when he starts modifying/swallowing the sound. He has most of the tools he needs, now he just needs me there to remind him to pull it all together. I'm very excited for him, and he is extremely pleased with his progress.

We're still working on the vibrato. I really feel like it's going to happen, but needs a little more time. His sound is getting very free, he's picking up lots of resonance... the vibrato will probably happen pretty soon, and if it doesn't... I think he'll still sound great.


I'm so happy for him. Singing means a lot to him, and this is definitely giving him more confidence. I'm telling you... Come next summer his sound is going to be unrecognizable from what he had this summer. He is progressing so fast that it always shocks me to see the improvements he has made between lessons and during lessons.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Here's a question for you, if any of you singing experts know.

In Handel's Giulio Cesare, the title role has struck me as being rather lower than your standard mezzo role. Would it really be more properly a contralto role?

[Tessar]

I dunno... I'm not super familiar with the role, but my guess is that it might be something that either an alto with a good top or a mezzo with a good lower extension could sing. I mean, most likely it was written for a particular singer who had a range that fit nicely into it, so to classify it based purely off of an 'oh it's for mezzo' or 'it's for alto' would be an uncertain science at best .

[Tessar]

Does anyone know what happened to Voronwen? O_o She just up and vanished completely.

[Earniel]

Getting withdrawal from singer discussions that fast, huh?

Voronwen's on holiday, as far as I know. I believe she'll be back in ten days or so.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Getting withdrawal from singer discussions that fast, huh?

Voronwen's on holiday, as far as I know. I believe she'll be back in ten days or so.

WHAAAAAAT?! o_O I never heard about that. Oops!

And yes, I AM going into withdrawal already!

[hectorberlioz]

I think my Berlioz Superpost scared her off . And it's not even finished...

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Tessar

WHAAAAAAT?! o_O I never heard about that. Oops!

Now that you mention it, I don't think she said anything of it on this board. She probably just forgot, or she (mistakenly) figured you would be able to go for ten days without discussing music.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Now that you mention it, I don't think she said anything of it on this board. She probably just forgot, or she (mistakenly) figured you would be able to go for ten days without discussing music.

Pffft. WHATEVER. >.<

I had a great lesson! He told me that I have an entirely difference voice than I started out with this summer, and I'm inclined to agree. My technique is SO much improved! I'm really thrilled. He taught me about phrasing today, too... which is dumb that I didn’t do it properly before, because it’s the most obvious thing in the world when you know how. He showed me how to actually sing into the stresses instead of just mushing them the way a lot of people do.

He said something very nice, which is that he thinks I’ll be able to get a full ride to a high level conservatory when I’m done with my undergrad. He says he’s had less talented and motivated students than myself do it, so he thinks I’ll be able to go far. Yay!

I’m going to go ahead and work on Apres Un Reve for a Friday lesson. He asked if I could have it memorized by then and I said yes... I know the piece pretty well, I just need to cement a few places in my head. We're going to use it for phrasing and legato lines.

He also wants me to do NATS... so I guess between his and my dad’s encouragement, I probably will. I told him that I want to start working on that stuff now, though. If it's in November I don't have much time to prepare. I told him that I wont win, but that I will be singing as perfectly as I’m capable of.

I can’t see myself making it past simi-finals, but I intend to prepare for it as if it’s going to be a neck and neck race for first place . I’m telling you... the kids who make finals have big voices, great technique, and are just incredible. I don’t think I’m ready to compete with that just yet, but given time I hope I’ll attain that level .


I will definitely be doing some coaching, with the early music soprano I met on Sunday, and I'm very excited to see how that works out. She wants me to try some counter-tenor stuff, which should be fun! I don't think I would like to try to professionally sing CT (I used to really want to), but it can't hurt to gain more facility in my falsetto range.

We'll also do some baritone stuff, so that'll be cool . She was touring Europe for ten years as an early music operatic soprano, so she should have some great advice and useful stories for me at the very least.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Ooo, I want to hear you sing Apres un Reve! Are we gonna get a link?

[Tessar]

Hmmm, I'll see if I can't make a recording of my lesson. There may not be anything worth showing... we're going to be working on my French diction (since I have none to speak of... it's pretty atrocious at the moment), and phrasing, so I doubt I'll even sing the song the whole way through.

Did I mention that I got some amazing books from the school library? They're super cool!

One that I am loving TO DEATH is a book of vocalizes and exercises from Melba. As in the famous opera singer that they named Melba toast after . She was a mega-star in her day, and apparently an amazing teacher. Her resonance building exercises are what I'm working on right now, and they're FANTASTIC! I love them.

The others are Richard Miller books, and he is considered (by some people) to have been the most recently living 'greatest pedagogue'. The books are certainly very interesting. One is a kind of 'trouble shooter' where they talk about various vocal problems and ideas for fixing them. The other is called 'Securing the Bass and Baritone voice' which is fantastic... lots of exercises and tips. The last one is on training the soprano voice, which I'm really enjoying reading.