feanor a villian - Page 8

BeardofPants · 06-04-2002, 06:50 PM

Quote:

e·vil Pronunciation Key (vl)
adj. e·vil·er, e·vil·est

1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
3. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
4. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
5. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.

n.

1. The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
2. That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
3. An evil force, power, or personification.
4. Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice.

Okay, looking up the definition of "evil" it appears that Feanor DOES fit the bill... dammit.

But I STILL say that he wasn't on par with Morgoth or Hitler. Nor was he completely irredeemable. I think the possibility of redemption WAS there.

Wayfarer · 06-04-2002, 08:46 PM

Feanor was a pretty nasty guy, and certainly I would call him evil, but was he a villain?

I would say no. In a literary sense, he's more an antihero. He's one of the main protagonists, but he's flawed, and rather unheroic.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 06-05-2002, 01:02 AM

Okay. Thanks for the definition, BoP.

Here's my conclusion, from the evidence presented. . .

Feanor was very much flawed, mostly by his pride and tendency to follow only his emotions, especially anger and jealousy, and he did things that were certainly evil. BUT, he was not irredeamable, and certainly not anywhere near where Morgoth or Hitler or any of the other 'super-villains,' historical, real, or fictional. So basically I agree with BeardofPants.

Blackheart · 06-05-2002, 11:13 AM

Ha! He was evil! Don't tell me I don't know evil when I see it!

He comes to the meetings!

As for irredeemable, well there was hope even for poor Smeagol. Next you're going to be telling me he wasn't evil, he was just a poor misunderstood victim.

BeardofPants · 06-05-2002, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blackheart
Next you're going to be telling me he wasn't evil, he was just a poor misunderstood victim.

Yeah, yeah.

And he was a poor misunderstood victim.

Blackheart · 06-06-2002, 11:08 AM

He was a poor misunderstood evil little canibalistic bastard you mean.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 06-06-2002, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blackheart
He was a poor misunderstood evil little canibalistic bastard you mean.

I don't think he was a canibal was he?

afro-elf · 06-06-2002, 01:00 PM

Maybe he just needed to get in touch with his inner child.

Blackheart · 06-06-2002, 01:13 PM

Cannibal.

He would have eaten Bilbo.

Supposedly hobbits were a type of man.

He did eat babies. Unless you discount the statement about the slipping in through windows to rob cradles.

Close enough for me.

afro-elf · 06-06-2002, 01:25 PM

maybe he ate his inner child

BeardofPants · 06-06-2002, 08:13 PM

Quote:

He was a poor misunderstood evil little canibalistic bastard you mean.

And what's wrong with that?

Eruviel Greenleaf · 06-10-2002, 04:47 AM

Gollum had been horribly corrupted by the Ring. It was the Ring, not Gollum himself...wait, he did kill his cousin...I suppose he just was a misunderstood, neglected child, eh?

Gemini · 06-10-2002, 06:25 PM

Maybe he just wasnt hugged enough as a child, eh?

I think he was just corrupted by the ring. BLAME IT ON THE RINGS MAKER!!! not on the rings bearer

Blackheart · 06-11-2002, 12:08 PM

Err, with that line of reasoning, I can blame the manufacturer of Alcohol any time I get in a car drunk and run over a child...

Gemini · 06-11-2002, 12:15 PM

that you could. And I could also blame ADHD on caffine. But I dont, so I wont. We arent talking about Alcohol though (and I hope you havent run over any little children lately!)

Blackheart · 06-11-2002, 12:25 PM

The point is, when you begin to blame an individual's behavior on a substance or influence, you have removed responsibility from that individual.

And doing so makes it a viable excuse for any similar situation.

Therefore Sauron is a complete innocent, because he was seduced and corrupted by Melkor.

BeardofPants · 06-11-2002, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gemini
(and I hope you havent run over any little children lately!)

Ah dammit!

He's got a point, you know...

... Better fling some mud at the cocky bugger!

Blackheart · 06-11-2002, 04:25 PM

Mud?

Mud flinging women and a cocky bastard?

What have I gotten myself into?

I can see it now, I was corrupted by the influence of the mudflinging women...

Eruviel Greenleaf · 06-11-2002, 07:59 PM

How about this?

Gollum/Smeagol was far from being without blame for his actions, but much was either the combined effect of the Ring, and therefore Sauron, or just the Ring, and therefore Sauron. So he's not pure and innocent excepting the corruption of the Ring, but it's not all his fault either. Just partly.

I'll fling mud at people!

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 06-11-2002, 09:12 PM

Hey guys, this is the Silmarillion forum, and the thread is about Feanor. Let's get back on topic.

06-04-2002, 08:46 PM	#142
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Feanor was a pretty nasty guy, and certainly I would call him evil, but was he a villain? I would say no. In a literary sense, he's more an antihero. He's one of the main protagonists, but he's flawed, and rather unheroic. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

06-05-2002, 01:02 AM	#143
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Okay. Thanks for the definition, BoP. Here's my conclusion, from the evidence presented. . . Feanor was very much flawed, mostly by his pride and tendency to follow only his emotions, especially anger and jealousy, and he did things that were certainly evil. BUT, he was not irredeamable, and certainly not anywhere near where Morgoth or Hitler or any of the other 'super-villains,' historical, real, or fictional. So basically I agree with BeardofPants. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

06-05-2002, 11:13 AM	#144
Blackheart Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Darkness Posts: 1,211	Ha! He was evil! Don't tell me I don't know evil when I see it! He comes to the meetings! As for irredeemable, well there was hope even for poor Smeagol. Next you're going to be telling me he wasn't evil, he was just a poor misunderstood victim. __________________ I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ...

06-06-2002, 11:08 AM	#146
Blackheart Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Darkness Posts: 1,211	He was a poor misunderstood evil little canibalistic bastard you mean. __________________ I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ...

06-06-2002, 01:00 PM	#148
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Maybe he just needed to get in touch with his inner child. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

06-06-2002, 01:13 PM	#149
Blackheart Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Darkness Posts: 1,211	Cannibal. He would have eaten Bilbo. Supposedly hobbits were a type of man. He did eat babies. Unless you discount the statement about the slipping in through windows to rob cradles. Close enough for me. __________________ I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ...

06-06-2002, 01:25 PM	#150
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	maybe he ate his inner child __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

06-10-2002, 04:47 AM	#152
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Gollum had been horribly corrupted by the Ring. It was the Ring, not Gollum himself...wait, he did kill his cousin...I suppose he just was a misunderstood, neglected child, eh? __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

06-10-2002, 06:25 PM	#153
Gemini Sapling Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5	... Maybe he just wasnt hugged enough as a child, eh? I think he was just corrupted by the ring. BLAME IT ON THE RINGS MAKER!!! not on the rings bearer __________________ If you studied long...you studied wrong. "Those Eyebrows!" ~FLCL

06-11-2002, 12:08 PM	#154
Blackheart Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Darkness Posts: 1,211	Err, with that line of reasoning, I can blame the manufacturer of Alcohol any time I get in a car drunk and run over a child... __________________ I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ...

06-11-2002, 12:15 PM	#155
Gemini Sapling Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5	... that you could. And I could also blame ADHD on caffine. But I dont, so I wont. We arent talking about Alcohol though (and I hope you havent run over any little children lately!) __________________ If you studied long...you studied wrong. "Those Eyebrows!" ~FLCL

06-11-2002, 12:25 PM	#156
Blackheart Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Darkness Posts: 1,211	The point is, when you begin to blame an individual's behavior on a substance or influence, you have removed responsibility from that individual. And doing so makes it a viable excuse for any similar situation. Therefore Sauron is a complete innocent, because he was seduced and corrupted by Melkor. __________________ I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ...

06-11-2002, 04:25 PM	#158
Blackheart Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Darkness Posts: 1,211	Mud? Mud flinging women and a cocky bastard? What have I gotten myself into? I can see it now, I was corrupted by the influence of the mudflinging women... __________________ I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ...

06-11-2002, 07:59 PM	#159
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	How about this? Gollum/Smeagol was far from being without blame for his actions, but much was either the combined effect of the Ring, and therefore Sauron, or just the Ring, and therefore Sauron. So he's not pure and innocent excepting the corruption of the Ring, but it's not all his fault either. Just partly. I'll fling mud at people! __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

06-11-2002, 09:12 PM	#160
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Hey guys, this is the Silmarillion forum, and the thread is about Feanor. Let's get back on topic.

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