Bombadil...theories? The Ring had no effect on him!

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

How about the clue that the Hobbits all had fairly vivid dreams in his house? Bring any other Maiar or Valar to mind?

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

How about the clue that the Hobbits all had fairly vivid dreams in his house? Bring any other Maiar or Valar to mind?

As far as I can recollect Frodo dreamt of a gate, a flattened, black land, with a large tower and a white-haired man on top, taken away by an eagle. I.e. Gandalf's escape from Orthanc.

Can't remember the other's dreams, but for one it involved water and a swamp.. I think

I didn't quite get your point DPR

[Gordis]

There was one Vala specialist of dreams. He was called Irmo or Lorien. I think DPR hints at him.

[Jon S.]

Now I'm really scraping my memory but was it Sam who specifically dreamt about nothing?

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Gordis

There was one Vala specialist of dreams. He was called Irmo or Lorien. I think DPR hints at him.

Yeah, I was suspecting as much, but in all truth I know little about the various Valar.

Originally Posted by Jon S.

Now I'm really scraping my memory but was it Sam who specifically dreamt about nothing?

I think you're right! I seem to remember that too, but it sounded kinda odd

In honesty though, I wouldn't read too much into the collective message of the dreams the four hobbits had. Having Frodo dream of Gandalf's escape, which is the main message I'd take from the dreaming, I think it's fair to say that Tolkien wanted to serve the readers the three other hobbit's dreaming as well; in the name of companionship and all


That being said, I don't claim to agree with Gene Hargrove's theory, except to say that I think it is well-thought through.

[Jon S.]

As I consider it more, I believe the description is along the lines of whatever dreams Sam had were like those of a log, if logs could dream.

I'll have to look it up when I get home!

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Irmo and Este have just as good a case (probably better) than Aule and Yavanna.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

Irmo and Este have just as good a case (probably better) than Aule and Yavanna.

I know of one Vala who would fit perfectly. Read and find out

Teatime_with_the_Dark_Lord

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

A few of my favorites:

Sauron nodded. “I understand.”
Stupid Ilúvatar.

and

“Just promise to set him up with Galadriel. He’ll do anything.”

and

“Good-bye, Sauron. Have fun taking over the world.”

[Gordis]

Yea, cute little ficlet. My fav part is is:

Goldberry frowned. “You’re not… plotting or anything, are you?”
The man laughed. “No, my darling, of course not! Sauron just dropped by for tea.”
Goldberry shrugged and left the room.
Sauron blinked. All of a sudden, “this life” didn’t look so bad.

[Jon S.]

Originally Posted by Jon S.

As I consider it more, I believe the description is along the lines of whatever dreams Sam had were like those of a log, if logs could dream.

I'll have to look it up when I get home!

My memory is not as bad as I sometimes think.

"As far as he could remember, Sam slept through the night in deep content, if logs are contented."

FOTR Ch. 7

[Attalus]

I like what JRRT said about him: Tom is a mystery, and we will never figure him out.

[ringbearer]

OP here! Cannot believe this thread I started is still kicking around after 7 years!

My original thoughts are about the rings effects on Tom...or lack of!

[Ant]

I would say that Tom Bombadil was, if anything, Middle-earth itself. People have claimed he's the Witch-king of Angmar, which he clearly isn't.

There is one major clue that people often overlook.

Tom Bombadil is oldest. He is the first.

But Gandalf says to Theoden when speaking of Treebeard that when he meets Treebeard he will meet "The oldest living thing"

This means that Tom Bombadil is not even alive.

[Ant]

Bleh...disregard that post. Just realised someone said the same earlier.

[Ant]

Oh, and another thought I had regarding Goldberry rather than Tom is that Tom states that "It's Goldberrys washing day" and Tolkien stresses greatly the fact that it's raining outside. Now I wouldn't imagine that Goldberry was the 'under the thumb-male dominated' type. Nor would she wash clothes out in the rain. I would think that perhaps Tom is the the warm weather, or the sun. And Goldberry is the wet weather, or the rain itself. The entire chapter seems to give that feeling.

To reinforce this belief there are a number of points...

Tom seems to want to stay inside when its raining. He seems quite happy to let Goldberry do her thing, to wash the land. Its her turn and he will sit inside and chill out with the hobbits.

The rain has no effect on him. He comes inside from the rain and is completely dry.

And my favorite is the fact that the two seem to dance around, he jolly and capering, her sad and beautiful, yet they seem to create one dance and never get in each others way.

Symbolic of course, but I like to think of it that way.

[brownjenkins]

It's a nice point.

It goes back to my point earlier in this thread (and almost a decade ago ), Tom, and probably Goldberry as well, represent beings who are truely at peace with their own existance and place in life.

There's no desire, or yearning for something greater. Simply happiness for what is. Enjoying the moment for what it is.

A rare quality among us lesser beings.

[Noble Elf Lord]

That is indeed a nice idea, but Tom said he's no weathermaster. Otherwise it would have worked beautifully.

[Ant]

Ah, but the sun isnt a master of weather He takes his turn, as does the wind and the rain, and the snow.

Tolkien never ever suggested that characters might represent weather and when Saruman seems to bring snow down on the fellowship, one could look at it as his power of charm to bring down the snow. He is no weather master, but a master of minds and manipulation. Say he wanted to bring sun light down on the fellowship (or had Legolas taken Gandalf literally and gone off to find the sun) perhaps these things would have involved Bombadil and Suaruman using his powers of persausion. But Legolas of course refers to the sun as a 'she'.

Still, I don't doubt that you are right. But Tolkien was certainly capable of and willing to use sybolism. The books are packed with it.

"Who was Tom Bombadil?" Is the same question as "Who was Jack the Ripper?" We will never know. We can have our theories, and discuss it until the end of time, but we will never know. As someone stated, pure inspiration from Tolkien. It's what makes a book timeless.

[Noble Elf Lord]

I agree, Ant. Just wanted to test the newbie a bit.

Guess there'll be soon a thread of how Saruman brought that snow and storm on the Fellowship... We're really splitting hairs here, aren't we? That's just überfun.