Eowyn or Arwen? - Page 8

Radagast The Brown · 05-10-2002, 02:23 PM

I agree with Wulažg. I just like Arwen. No offence but Eowyn is terribly...ahh ...ahh ... I don't know she's just... I don't like Eowyn!!!

Lizra · 05-10-2002, 04:18 PM

self centered? (with good reasons of course!)

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-12-2002, 04:49 PM

Wulazg, stop generalizing and stereotyping. Please.
Okay, it's nice to hear other people's opinions. I still like Eowyn better, but reading about your opinions is nice too. I don't think we're about to change anyone's opinions here

Wulažg · 05-12-2002, 10:37 PM

Hey Eruviel... What is the difference(in your mind) between stereotyping and generalization and simply seeing the patterns? People that act alike look alike. It's like people looking like their pets/spouses. People give up things to match more perfectly the personalities of said entities and therefore tend to obtain the same general "feel"/"look" to them. Quantify that and you have a system for reading wha a peson is like by their appearance/unconcious actions. Any character/character type written about by an author to a sufficient degree will afford the same opportunity to assess the character's personality. For instance, if you know what you are doing, you can figure out Hemingway's "Code Hero" or even more interesting the "nice/kind/friendly/beautiful-hearted"(sorry technical term ast least it wasn't in Quenya as usual) if F. Scott Fitzgerald's works. In the same sense one can analyze Arwen and her template, Luthien Tinuviel, and HER template, Tolkien's wife. Thus one can actually get a pretty good idea as to "who" Arwen really is. I'm a VERY logical person and I did not make a blind generalization or stereotype. I'm apparently also quite vociferous on the subject

Wulažg · 05-12-2002, 10:41 PM

Trust me this is mild compared to what my English teacher went through when he asked something stupid. I replied with a 10 page dissertation comparing personality sets between Tolkien and Fitzgerald. He has now banned me from writing essays on LotR. This is NOTHING compared to that. I like/prefer nice people and so will always choose them. This isn't the specifics yet but it should be sufficient to explain my statement earlier.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-12-2002, 10:46 PM

Whoa! Sorry, I went into rabid-feminist mode there for a minute!

Sometimes I tend to get really annoyed by the stereotyping of women as an attempt to define "feminine" (okay, I admit it, I have been reading Mary Daly. But it's for a class, and I know she's crazy. Anyway.), because I know that I do not fit that stereotype at all. Okay, I'm not even sure what I'm saying here. I get what you mean, about defining characters, and, true, you can lump a bunch of labels, etc. onto a character as a sort of definition of said character, and I know you can do that for about everyone, lumping a bunch of labels together to apply to someone, and that works sometimes, and I think it's the resulting combination that makes someone an individual. Sort of like genetics. I tend object to people making generalizations about people. Dunno why. Anyway, you are welcome to ignore what I just said; it didn't make any sense.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-12-2002, 10:49 PM

It's cool that you are always ready to defend whatever you say--I admire people who can do that! Thanks for the explanation...And I think most people generally like nice people over not-nice people. Eek! I made a generalization!

Wulažg · 05-13-2002, 08:44 PM

Define over-nice. It seems to be impossible unless you are refferring to insincere nice people. I just don't get it.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-13-2002, 09:13 PM

Did I say 'over-nice' ? *checks posts* I don't think I did. . .

Wulažg · 05-13-2002, 10:32 PM

oops... I must have skipped the "not" in "over not-nice". Sorry

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-14-2002, 12:24 AM

That's alright, my orcish friend!

Christiana · 05-16-2002, 07:26 PM

Arwen.have u Seen the horse chase sene? anyway, shes less whimsy than Eowyn.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-16-2002, 07:32 PM

Christiana, have you read the books? No offense or anything, but really, Eowyn is far from whimsy (maybe a bit self-centered and so on. . .) while Arwen simply sits at home and makes flags. Not that there's anything wrong with making banners and staying at home, but Eowyn at least goes out and does something, which is far from whimsy. And the horse chase scene is purely a PJ invention, having nothing to do with the character JRR Tolkien wrote.

Christiana · 05-16-2002, 08:05 PM

Shut up.

I'm unhappy all ready.*sob*

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-16-2002, 08:09 PM

Sorry, didn't mean to make you sad. . .there, there. I just meant, I thought you might not have read them, so your impressions would be different...it would be PJ's interpretations of the characters, not your own. Didn't want to hurt your feelings. . .

BeardofPants · 05-16-2002, 08:11 PM

Well, this is the books forum! If you want to expound upon the virtues of Movie Arwen, do it in the movie forum.

Mirahzi · 05-16-2002, 08:13 PM

Eowyn's a tomboy, which is generally a quality I prefer. Not to mention, she kicks butt on the Witchking (Merry helped

)
On the other hand... Arwen's a sissy... (I am soooo immature).
I guess being a sissy's alright. After all she's an elf and judging from Legolas, elves are supposed to be sissies.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-16-2002, 08:20 PM

Are you insulting me, Mirahzi?

(in case you didn't know, I am Legolas. Just chose an odd disguise, is all)

Yeah, Eowyn's a tomboy, which is probably one of the reasons I like her better over Arwen...

Mirahzi · 05-16-2002, 08:24 PM

You can bet your socks I'm insulting you

You and your nancing and prancing!! Disgraceful

Dithpicable.

I suppose Arwen and Aragorn are suited for each other, since opposites attract.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-16-2002, 08:30 PM

How dare you insult me? I am one of the manliest elves in ME!!!

05-10-2002, 02:23 PM	#1
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	I agree with Wulažg. I just like Arwen. No offence but Eowyn is terribly...ahh ...ahh ... I don't know she's just... I don't like Eowyn!!! __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

05-10-2002, 04:18 PM	#2
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	self centered? (with good reasons of course!) __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

05-12-2002, 04:49 PM	#3
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Wulazg, stop generalizing and stereotyping. Please. Okay, it's nice to hear other people's opinions. I still like Eowyn better, but reading about your opinions is nice too. I don't think we're about to change anyone's opinions here __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

05-12-2002, 10:37 PM	#4
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	Hey Eruviel... What is the difference(in your mind) between stereotyping and generalization and simply seeing the patterns? People that act alike look alike. It's like people looking like their pets/spouses. People give up things to match more perfectly the personalities of said entities and therefore tend to obtain the same general "feel"/"look" to them. Quantify that and you have a system for reading wha a peson is like by their appearance/unconcious actions. Any character/character type written about by an author to a sufficient degree will afford the same opportunity to assess the character's personality. For instance, if you know what you are doing, you can figure out Hemingway's "Code Hero" or even more interesting the "nice/kind/friendly/beautiful-hearted"(sorry technical term ast least it wasn't in Quenya as usual) if F. Scott Fitzgerald's works. In the same sense one can analyze Arwen and her template, Luthien Tinuviel, and HER template, Tolkien's wife. Thus one can actually get a pretty good idea as to "who" Arwen really is. I'm a VERY logical person and I did not make a blind generalization or stereotype. I'm apparently also quite vociferous on the subject __________________ FRODO LIVES!! EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO rule the world!

05-12-2002, 10:41 PM	#5
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	Trust me this is mild compared to what my English teacher went through when he asked something stupid. I replied with a 10 page dissertation comparing personality sets between Tolkien and Fitzgerald. He has now banned me from writing essays on LotR. This is NOTHING compared to that. I like/prefer nice people and so will always choose them. This isn't the specifics yet but it should be sufficient to explain my statement earlier. __________________ FRODO LIVES!! EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO rule the world!

05-12-2002, 10:46 PM	#6
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Whoa! Sorry, I went into rabid-feminist mode there for a minute! Sometimes I tend to get really annoyed by the stereotyping of women as an attempt to define "feminine" (okay, I admit it, I have been reading Mary Daly. But it's for a class, and I know she's crazy. Anyway.), because I know that I do not fit that stereotype at all. Okay, I'm not even sure what I'm saying here. I get what you mean, about defining characters, and, true, you can lump a bunch of labels, etc. onto a character as a sort of definition of said character, and I know you can do that for about everyone, lumping a bunch of labels together to apply to someone, and that works sometimes, and I think it's the resulting combination that makes someone an individual. Sort of like genetics. I tend object to people making generalizations about people. Dunno why. Anyway, you are welcome to ignore what I just said; it didn't make any sense. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

05-12-2002, 10:49 PM	#7
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	It's cool that you are always ready to defend whatever you say--I admire people who can do that! Thanks for the explanation...And I think most people generally like nice people over not-nice people. Eek! I made a generalization! __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

05-13-2002, 08:44 PM	#8
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	Define over-nice. It seems to be impossible unless you are refferring to insincere nice people. I just don't get it. __________________ FRODO LIVES!! EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO rule the world!

05-13-2002, 09:13 PM	#9
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Did I say 'over-nice' ? checks posts I don't think I did. . . __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

05-13-2002, 10:32 PM	#10
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	oops... I must have skipped the "not" in "over not-nice". Sorry __________________ FRODO LIVES!! EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO rule the world!

05-14-2002, 12:24 AM	#11
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	That's alright, my orcish friend! __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

05-16-2002, 07:26 PM	#12
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	Arwen.have u Seen the horse chase sene? anyway, shes less whimsy than Eowyn.

05-16-2002, 07:32 PM	#13
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Christiana, have you read the books? No offense or anything, but really, Eowyn is far from whimsy (maybe a bit self-centered and so on. . .) while Arwen simply sits at home and makes flags. Not that there's anything wrong with making banners and staying at home, but Eowyn at least goes out and does something, which is far from whimsy. And the horse chase scene is purely a PJ invention, having nothing to do with the character JRR Tolkien wrote. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

05-16-2002, 08:05 PM	#14
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	Shut up. I'm unhappy all ready.sob

05-16-2002, 08:09 PM	#15
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Sorry, didn't mean to make you sad. . .there, there. I just meant, I thought you might not have read them, so your impressions would be different...it would be PJ's interpretations of the characters, not your own. Didn't want to hurt your feelings. . . __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

05-16-2002, 08:11 PM	#16
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Well, this is the books forum! If you want to expound upon the virtues of Movie Arwen, do it in the movie forum. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

05-16-2002, 08:13 PM	#17
Mirahzi Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,286	Eowyn's a tomboy, which is generally a quality I prefer. Not to mention, she kicks butt on the Witchking (Merry helped ) On the other hand... Arwen's a sissy... (I am soooo immature). I guess being a sissy's alright. After all she's an elf and judging from Legolas, elves are supposed to be sissies. __________________ "For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest." - Fëanor

05-16-2002, 08:20 PM	#18
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Are you insulting me, Mirahzi? (in case you didn't know, I am Legolas. Just chose an odd disguise, is all) Yeah, Eowyn's a tomboy, which is probably one of the reasons I like her better over Arwen... __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

05-16-2002, 08:24 PM	#19
Mirahzi Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,286	You can bet your socks I'm insulting you You and your nancing and prancing!! Disgraceful Dithpicable. I suppose Arwen and Aragorn are suited for each other, since opposites attract. __________________ "For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest." - Fëanor

05-16-2002, 08:30 PM	#20
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	How dare you insult me? I am one of the manliest elves in ME!!! __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

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