Mooters' RotK reviews

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Starr Polish
I've never been a big fan of Denethor.

Yeah same here. I've always disliked Denethor anyway, so seeing him get hit was fine by me, even though it diminished Gandalf a bit. The lack of palatir for Denethor didn't bother me much either, cuz I've read the books and know why he was a psycho On the contrary side the palantir would help the movie-goer understand why he is such a morbid loon.

I contend the fact that he was "noble". I never felt he was in reading the books many times over, I always thought he was an idiot to be quite honest, lol. Just my opinion though

[hectorberlioz]

its strange that the actor's(the actor who plays denethor) name is john noble. just kinda weird...

[Earniel]

After about two weeks of avoiding the movie forum (and the spoilers), I can finally return. I saw RoTK yesterdaynight and turned out a better movie than I had feared. It didn't not offer the disappointment TTT had. They stayed closer to the book this time. Of course, I'll require more viewings, since there was so much to see in the movie! So my opinions on scenes may change yet.

What I missed
It's is obvious that not everything from the book could be filmed and the omissions such as the Grey company and the Woses were not really missed and understandable cut. I knew already a long time the Scouring was going to be cut so I was okay with that. Though it is an indispensable part in the book, I think the film worked without it. With saying in the FoTR that the Shire would only be burned if they failed, they nicely avoided having to stage a fight in the Shire in the end. In any case, it would have been too long to fit it in the movie as well.

I did miss the Healing Houses scenes, those had been a favorite part of mine in the book and could have provided a bit of a breather between many action-packted scene in the movie. I had loved to see Faramir and Éowyn standing on the walls of Minas Tirith as the Eagle messenger comes to announce the fall of Sauron.

I had loved to see a little more of Éomer as well. His scene with the dying Théoden was given to Éowyn instead and no single reference is made to him being king of Rohan now. I sort of missed that in the movie. Though his taking down the first Múmak was very nice.

What I disliked on a first viewing
I don't think I'll ever particulary like Jackson's way of filming battles. It's all so rushed and blurry. I'd like to see seperate moves, not just a blur of movement. All the massively cool armour, weapon and moves, and you can not really see them.

I found the scene where Gollum is putting those Lembas-crumbles on Sam a bit daft. And those secretive, mean, little smiles he constantly gave Samwise behind Frodo's back. That was over the top. And you just don't tell Sam to go home! Though I rather disliked that scene, it seemed to work in the movie but it'll never by one of my favorites.

The second fight with Gollum on the edge above the fires of Mount Doom seemed rather unnecesary. Personally I also don't think Sam would normally have been able to pull Frodo up by his bloody and slippery hand. And Gollum disappearing in the lava looked more like Gollum disappearing in a mud stream. The lava would have burned him instead of just swallowing him.

Denethor was a disappointment. Denethor was never one of my favorite characters but in the book he still had style and strenght even in his insanity. The palantir that played a significant role in Denethor madness, is omitted entirely in the movie except for one little reference. The movie-Denethor was weak, wussy and got beaten up a bloody lot (and nobody even cared or came to aid him, some loyal subjects those Gondoreans). That's just no way to treat a Stewart. The seemingly only reason for that rocky outcrop running through Minas Tirith is so that Denethor can throw himself of it. It ruined the powerful scene as Denethor lays himself down on the pyre with the palantir clutched in his hands.

I was looking forward to the scene where prince Imrahil carries the wounded Faramir back into Minas Tirith. Instead they subsituted Imrahil with a horse that very conveniently drags Faramir to the gate. Not exactly as good as I expected but do-able I suppose.

[Earniel]

What I liked in the first viewing
The lighting of the beacons was a great scene. Even if Gandalf had had to let Pippin sneak up to light it. But the filming of the succession of Beacons above the clouds was very powerful. I was trying to name them all when they lighted up one by one.

The Oliphaunts were very impressive, so many attention was paid to their battle-gear, even down to the pikes and sharp nasties tied to their tusks. And the way they marched up in one line on the horizon with all the orc-army fleeing between their legs. Great.

The Eagles were very good as well, they really payed attention to the way large birds of prey fight in the air as in the scene with the flying beasts of the Nazgûl. The way the claws locked in combat, the way they -so very careful- picked up Sam and Frodo from the rock in the lava sea. Marvelous. Though a few more Eagles at the battlefield wouldn't have spoilt the movie.

The scene where Arwen sees her future son was very nicely orchestrated. I particularly liked the way that piece of building appeared among the ferns and how the child had eyes just like Arwen.

I also liked Sam's fight with Shelob. I think Sean Astin did a tremendous good job on Sam in RoTK. "And that one is for my old gaffer!" Wow.

Those are the scenes I still remember right now.

Last tiny nitpicks
The Dead army played unfair. Walking over water, being unable to be hit while being able to hit other things themselves and pouring upon that last Múmak like an army of rabid mice.

Does Arwen's dress really have to go that deep? Surely that's not practical anymore.

They turned Sauron in a giant Super Trooper!

Conclusion
I was quite overwhelmed yesterday night after seeing RoTK. I am so glad most of my fears turned out wrong and that RoTK was no disappointment.

[azalea]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
How can you say you'd rather have Paths of the Dead left out for Eowyn's love story? Her love story is basically meaningless in the whole realm of things, whereas the Paths of the Dead is one of the biggest moments in the story in turning the tide for the side of good...

Hey, you like what you like, and I'll like what I like.

Seriously, what I meant was that it would have provided some continuity for that storyline, making the films a little more seamless. The Paths of the Dead could have been cut way back to make room for it. Plus, it would have helped Faramir's character arc in a way, too.
Incidentally, I think they picked the wrong person to arc -- they should have had Denethor "arc" instead of Faramir.

Don't get me wrong, I still loved the movie, I just disagree with some of the choices made in terms of editing and choice of focus (judicious use of screen time as well as what things they'd already chosen to focus on). I think it was like someone said above, the apparent pitfall in making a movie trilogy all at one time and a second extended trilogy at the same time as well.

The Arwen thing -- yeah, that's what I got, Khamul, but like you said, it should have been stated differently. I think a better thing would have been to say something about her fate being tied to Aragorn becoming King. It would have been accurate and made more sense.

[Arathorn]

Originally posted by Eärniel
What I liked in the first viewing

They turned Sauron in a giant Super Trooper!

Every time I see a light house now, I have this unexplainable urge to duck.

[squinteyedsoutherner]

Arwen, Arwen, Arwen. The handling of Arwen is the trilogy’s biggest character blunder. I am quite confused over what PJ was getting at with this character. At one point she tells Aragorn that she “chooses a mortal life� that is at least in keeping with Tolkien. But when Elrond is talking about the death of Aragorn it is made to seem as though Arwen is still going to be immortal or at least live very long, dwelling on and on after his death. In fact it's odd that Elrond focuses on her surviving Aragorn as "the bitter taste of mortality" than the fact she is now going to die herself forever seperate from her people(if we're still with Tolkien that is). Then in the third film there is the “she is dying� thing.

I thought that when Elrond felt her hand when she returned from the Havens that they were trying to show that she had indeed become mortal (made her choice so to speak) that fits with “I chooses a mortal life� but not “you will linger" but then the dying thing comes in, in relation to the ring. I don’t think it makes sense either way.

By the way, the paragraph in the appendix where Arwen returns to a now abandoned Lothlorien and lays down beneath the mallorn trees to die is, one of my favorite Tolkien moments. The full implication of what she chose could not have been ended more beautifully. Dying alone in the place her people once dwelt, but have now abandoned forever, it is perfect.



"Then she said farewell to Eldarion, and to her daughters, and to all whom she had loved; and she went out from the city of Minas Tirith and passed away to the land of Lorien, and dwelt there alone under the fading trees until winter came. Galadriel had passed away and Celeborn also was gone, and the land was silent. There at last when the mallorn-leaves were falling, but spring had not yet come, she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth�

[gollum9630]

i know this isnt part of ROTK, but with everyone saying the woses werent in the movies i was just wondering, werent they the wild men that were attacking Rohan in TTT. Just wondering if anyone knows for sure.

[Elvedans]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
ok, are you one who hates spielberg just because he's so sucessfull?
most of his movies are big favorites of mine.
schindler's list
saving private ryan
E.T.
catch me if you can

just because he's sucessfull doesnt mean he's a bad director.
spielberg is a much better director than peter jackson.

As it is off topic i will answer with one word only : NO. If you would like a fuller answer then i will gladly PM you.

[Elvedans]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
[

I wonder how people felt about the movie that HAVEN'T read the books?

]

I know three people who've seen it without reading the books.

Person one was disappointed after enjoying TTT but not FOTR or ROTK. She thought it was too long and didn't understand it properly.

Person two thought it was very good and enjoyed many specific moments, but thought it a little long. She loved it but didn't understand the Grey Havens.

Person three absolutely loved the whole trilogy and adored the battle scenes and the detail that went into it all.

Mixed opinions but hey, some people loved it and understood it without the book so it can't have been a bad job!

[Fimbrethil]

Personnally I really did like the movie. Except for the fact that in the TT if PJ hadn't made the stupid fight scene so long he could have put Shelob or at least about 30 min. more stuff that he left out. Then perhaps he couldv'e done Floatsam and Jetsam or The Scouring of the Shire or he could at least have had Sauromon killed. What was with the light house thing? My froend and I were both a little confused and then we laughed at it. Also he could have put more about Eowyn and Arwen in the movie. The speeches were awsome! I loved those. But at the end Celeborn went on the pretty boat with Galadriel wasn't he supposed to stay? And did they ever say the name of Sam's boy? Becasue it was supposed to be Frodo, right? The tear jerking scenes more or less redemed PJ though. But I still don't like what he did with Arwen.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Arathorn
Every time I see a light house now, I have this unexplainable urge to duck.

You live in Mordor then?

[Christiana]

Its pathetic. Im completely obsessed. Just last night, Someone asked for "crispy chicken for dinner" I imediately remembered the line in FOTR "nice crispy bacon" and the havoc that ensured.


I know some people who haven't read the books but have seen the movies. They generally get everything wrong someone thought that Denethor was a king, Merry and Pippin were brothers, and that they were drug addicts as well. Also that tolkien was the movies' DIRECTOR.

[Nerdanel]

Isn't it nice when people know nothing?
I saw RotK with my DAD ( ) and I'm sure he didn't understand much. I'm sure those who haven't read the books think that Denethor was a king. I would.

The lighthouse-thing was kinda.. erm... interesting.

Well, I thought it was OK. But I rather read the books again than see the films.

[Rosie Gamgee]

Wow.

No, that's not it. I loved the movie!!!! It had a bunch of not-so-great deviations from the books, so I'll start with what bugged me, and then get to the good stuff.

First, the only good thing about the prologe was that we got to see Andy Serkis actually playing Smeagol. The rest of it was dumb.
I didn't like that Saruman doesn't even seem to have a fitting ending for all the trouble he caused in the first two films.
I also did not like how they messed around with the Shelob bit. Excluding the fact that I hated to see Frodo reject Sam for Gollum, and the fact that the whole deal made Frodo seem like a pathetic nit-wit, the encounters with Shelob did not live up even to the moments proceding it. To have Frodo walk through a seemingly endless maze of web, constantly shouting pathetically for Smeagol to come and save him were not justified by a huge but terribly weak spider. Sam comes along, gives her a few scratches and she leaves. HE GETS TO KICK HER BUTT IN THE BOOK! That was probably the biggest let-down in the entire movie for me.
I missed the Houses of Healing, too. Also, it bugged me that Eowyn's womanhood was known prior to her 'unveiling' at Pellenor.
It also bothered me that Merry was not allowed to have his last conversation with Theoden, as well as the fact that Pippin never got to kill a troll. I didn't like Denethor going off the pinnacle of Minas Tirith. Totally lame. Why do people have to fall to their deaths in epic movies? Gollum's last fight with Frodo is less than what I expected. His second-to-last fight with him was pathetic on Frodo's part. I also missed Frodo giving Bag End to Sam, and Gimli's 'words' with Eomer about the Evenstar and the Morning star.
And speaking of Evenstars.. what was with Arwen's fate is now tied to the Ring?? WHAT?! The whole thing with Arwen was okay up until that point. It's not logical! How did Arwen suddenly get attached to the Ring? Duh...
P.S. No Dunadain. Bummer.

And now for the stuff I liked:
THE REST OF THE MOVIE!! Seriously, I absolutely loved everything else. Specific moments include Gandalf describing death to Pippin, and Pip saying "That's not so bad.", the lighting of the beacons- oh man, THAT was GLORIOUS. It was the only part I actually shed an unbidden tear over. Pippin offering his service to Denethor. Eomer telling Eowyn to stop 'encouraging' Merry. Theoden shouting "Ride now for the world's ending!" and everyone shouting "DEATH!". Minas Tirith was beautiful!!! I loved it when they had Frodo walking while lifting his hand above him as if to ward off a blow. Right out of the book and I loved it. When Sam 'sticks' that dirty yrch. Gimli's "What are we waiting for?" Pippin saying "We've got the White Wizard. That's got to count for something." Also, I loved that almost everyone in Minas Tirith knew who Mithrandir was. Their interaction with Gandalf was great. The end was absolutely AWESOME!! When the eagles come- oh, great (That they actually gave the "The eagles are coming!" line to its rightful owner made me very happy. The 'end of all things' was really beautiful. And when Frodo wakes in Minas Tirith and the only thing that he and Gandalf do is laugh is soooo cool! And when everybody comes in... I tell you, the audience that I saw it with was VERY uncharactaristically vocal. From the very first 'Wingnut Productions' (whereat someone a few rows behind me shouted "WINGNUT!"), there was cheering going on at every good moment. At that part when the Fellowship starts coming through the door of Frodo's room we all started clapping for each member. The only one that didn't get a whole lot was.. Legolas. A couple of girls in front of me let out these funny giggles and I was sitting there smirking over them. The look on Sam's face when he walks through that door is absolutely... I can't even find a word. It just sums up everything in one smile. As does Frodo's at the Grey Havens. His huge smile right before stepping aboard the boat is beautiful!! I love those two moments. Very touching.
On the whole, here are my compliments to the movie-makers:

PJ: Beautiful!! There were a few things that could have been kept true to the book, but really you did a wonderful job.
Writers: I would take my hood off to you in proper dwarf fashion if I had a proper dwarf hood. Again, there were a few unappreciated changes, but it was really beautiful what you did.
Effects people (from the Bigatures to the digital stuff to the sound-mixes): WONDERFUL!! Middle Earth exists more fully because of you guys!
Howard Shore and all the other music artists: Beautiful!!! (A truly heartfelt adjective and certainly none the worse for having been used before)
And to the actors: You people shine out like Silmarils in deepest night!! YOU PEOPLE ROCK!
And my own special 'award' for Best Actor goes to.. Sean Astin!!!!! There was nobody else in the whole wide world who could have brought Sam to life. You ARE Samwise Gamgee!!

[hectorberlioz]

*feigns brit accent*
Elvandans m'dear, please do pm me....i'm curious.
sorry for the uneccesarry off topic-ness.
Rosie, clean your pm box m'dear

[gollum9630]

Originally posted by Nerdanel
I'm sure those who haven't read the books think that Denethor was a king. I would.

How, Gandalf even says Denethor is not a king, that he is the steward. People who think he is a king are idiots who dont listen to details.

[Goldberry1]

Well, I saw it a few days ago... I haven't had time to organize my thoughts. I think this is the second-best of the three (after 'Fellowship'), but that's just my opinion.

Miranda Otto and Sean Astin gave the best performances, I think.

The scenery and costumes and sets and everything were great as usual, Minas Tirith was awesome.

I don't have time to get into detail right now - and I don't know if anyone has mentioned it already in this thread - but just as a normal movie-goer, there was absolutely no conclusion to what happened to Theoden. that's been bugging me the last few days...

[Christiana]

I haven't seen it for several days. I'm going into serious withdrawal. I'm actually shaking.

[Nerdanel]

Originally posted by gollum9630
How, Gandalf even says Denethor is not a king, that he is the steward. People who think he is a king are idiots who dont listen to details.

Well, I guess I would have been an idiot if i hadn't read the books..

I'm going to see it again tomorrow. Feels great!!