Túrin and Nienor

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by azalea
You're right, I might be thinking of another royal line. I forget.

No, you're right. The Pharaohs were incestuous. I think often brothers and sisters married.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Unbelieveable. Marrying your cousin just to keep the money. I wouldn't want to marry my cousins.

Hmph, and Lalaith is the one with a thing for brother/sister stuff?

[Lalaith]

Hmph, and Lalaith is the one with a thing for brother/sister stuff?

Me? Never. I just like the story of Turin and Nienor (ah, I forgot, Luke and Leia), but personally I would never marry my brother (as I have only a sister).

[snowmane]

do u no wats just as bad as turin and nienor niniel?maglin fancied his cuz-y he hated tuor partly and one of morgoth bargaining chips 2 find out where gondolin was.he knew that she was hs cousin and he still wanted her!i fink thats worse than the bro/sis thing.... at least they did not know they were related.....

[Lalaith]

yeah, but maeglin was not allowed to marry his cousin because she was his cousin and the elves still have moral!

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by snowmane
do u no wats just as bad as turin and nienor niniel?maglin fancied his cuz-y he hated tuor partly and one of morgoth bargaining chips 2 find out where gondolin was.he knew that she was hs cousin and he still wanted her!i fink thats worse than the bro/sis thing.... at least they did not know they were related.....

Ahh! I'm getting a headache trying to read that! And I can usually understand chat-speak as I do it myself when I chat.

I don't like Maeglin anyway. Just like I don't like Feanor. (No, I don't hate him like someone said in the Feanor thread. )

[Inderjit Sanghera]

yeah, but maeglin was not allowed to marry his cousin because she was his cousin and the elves still have moral!

Seemingly, Galadriel and Celeborn are devoid of morals.

[Lalaith]

Seemingly, Galadriel and Celeborn are devoid of morals.

Don't think so.

[Falagar]

I don't like Maelor anyway. Just like I don't like Feanor. (No, I don't hate him like someone said in the Feanor thread. )

Now, who may that have been
I was just kidding about it (or, more correctly, I was going to write Fëanor-bashing, but I forgot the word )

[Linaewen]

Hehe. I forgot who it was. Arghhh! Maelor! What possessed me to do that? *runs into a wall* It's because its nearly 1 pm. I'm half dead atm. Must go to sleep....

[Falagar]

Wholly understandable. People seldom remember my name

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Well, in Tolkien's latter writings, Galadriel and Celeborn were both were grand-children of Olwe, whereas in earlier passages Celeborn was a Nandorin Elf, which was changed to him being a grand-son of Elmo, brother of Elwe. The change of genalogy to a grandson of Olwe would make them first cousins, though whether this reference can be considered canonical, I am unsure.

I think that 'Laws and Custom's mentions that Elves generally didn't marry with their cousins. I see this as a mainly Eldarin customs, since Avarin interaction was pretty much non-existent, especially in Beleriand where the Tatyarin Avari were wholly unfriendly with any of the Eldar (See 'Quendi and Eldar' for more) and the Nelyarin Avari mainly lived in Doriath/Ossiriand. So whether the marriage between cousisn apllied to Avarin Elves I don't know, but I think that they shared the 'instinct' of not marrying their cousins/brothers and sisters as it may have been a common Elven feeling.

[Linaewen]

Why? Falagar. It's not that hard. I'll make an effort to remember. It's just because I've read so many threads tonight (been on for four hours) that I got confused.

[Lalaith]

Hehe. I forgot who it was. Arghhh! Maelor! What possessed me to do that? *runs into a wall* It's because its nearly 1 pm. I'm half dead atm. Must go to sleep....

You didn't write Maelor, I think.

I don't like Maeglin anyway. Just like I don't like Feanor. (No, I don't hate him like someone said in the Feanor thread. )

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Inderjit Sanghera
Well, in Tolkien's latter writings, Galadriel and Celeborn were both were grand-children of Olwe, whereas in earlier passages Celeborn was a Nandorin Elf, which was changed to him being a grand-son of Elmo, brother of Elwe. The change of genalogy to a grandson of Olwe would make them first cousins, though whether this reference can be considered canonical, I am unsure.

I have only read 'History of Galadriel and Celeborn' in UT, and it seems like JRRT never settled completely on the background and genealogy of Celeborn. Personally I prefer the earlier version which is consistent with the Silmarillion. The history where Celeborn is made a grandson of Olwë radically changes Galadriel's part in the rebellion of the Noldor. She is supposed to have gotten permission from Manwë to go to Middle-Earth, and she comes under the ban of the Valar only by bad luck. I find it very unlikely that Manwë should give anyone such a permission. I also find it extremely unlikely that Galadriel and Celeborn should marry were they cousins.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

She is supposed to have gotten permission from Manwë to go to Middle-Earth

Celeborn and Galadriel never recieved any pardon from Manwe.

Galadriel, desparing of Valinor.....set sail into the darkness without waiting for Manwe's consent

Unfinished Tales.

prefer the earlier version which is consistent with the Silmarillion.

Consitency with the Silmarillion does not always equate to canon/Tolkien's final word. Looking at 'Myths Transformed' Tolkien was verging on altering the conception of the Silmarillion and of course 'smaller' factors such as Gil-Galad's parentage and Amras's fate. Though, ,C.T done a great job with the Published Sil. one wonders what it would've look liked if he had waited.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Inderjit Sanghera
Consitency with the Silmarillion does not always equate to canon/Tolkien's final word.

I didn't intend to go into a discussion with you about canon, Inderjit I was just stating which version I personally preferred. You are right, of course, Galadriel did not get a formal permission, but she was not refused either:

This desire of Galadriel's was, it seems, known to Manwë, and he had not forbidden her; but nor had she been given formal leave to depart.

This is stated in UT, referring to the same history in which Celeborn is a Telerin Elf of Aman. But my point was, to me this story seemed too unlikely.

[Lalaith]

I wonder where the administrator is who should tell us to keep the topic. lol

[Artanis]

You're right. Sorry.

[Lalaith]

The greatest women of aman does not have to excuse herself.