The Singers Thread

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

But i think what you're describing may be unique to male voices, along with the 'roar' thing. The word 'forceful' sounds like something that would damage my own delicate voice But it's possible that i'm just misunderstanding what you're saying - Are you saying that it sounds forceful, or that it feels forceful to produce this sound??? If it's the latter, then i definitely can't relate to it.

I really think the roar is unique to the male voice. I never heard my voice teacher even hint at describing a female voice that way.


Haha, it doesn't feel forceful at all. But the sound is one with oomph and energy in it... it doesn't sound 'forced' but it's like a solid pillar of sound rather than just being... I guess almost a 'lazy' sound.

[Tessar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpWRlDQn1aw

This is Robert Merrill, and he had resonance and 'roar' to go on for days . If you listen when he hits the high note around 25 seconds in, you can hear a bit of that 'roar' sound. Do you hear how it's sort of like a lion's roar? It doesn't sound scream-y at all, and it doesn't sound forced, but it's very... roar-like? O_o Am I being clear at all?

[Voronwen]

Haha, i do hear what you mean! And yes, i think that *is* unique to male voices. Maybe very, very large dramatic female voices have something similar, too. But i am VERY far from being that!

And i think i know what you're referring to by a sound with energy in it. I think this happens for all voices when 1. the support is good, and 2. you're singing in your optimal range. I know for a fact that if, like your fellow student, i tried to sing Mimi's aria, it would just sound limp and uninteresting because that's not the optimal part of my voice. Arias of that type sit too low to be interesting in my voice. But something like Tornami a vagheggiar is optimal for me (i've performed this piece several times).

[Tessar]

OMG!!! Tornami a vagheggiar is one of my most favorite arias EVAH!!!! O_o I lurv it to death.

As I think I've said before, if I could be any voice in the world I would probably wish to be a soprano. Sopranos get the best arias ever.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

OMG!!! Tornami a vagheggiar is one of my most favorite arias EVAH!!!! O_o I lurv it to death.

I love it, too, and love singing it! It's just so HAPPY that one can't help herself from adding E flats everywhere!

As I think I've said before, if I could be any voice in the world I would probably wish to be a soprano. Sopranos get the best arias ever.

We light sopranos get the fun fluffy stuff, for sure! But the REALLY fun stuff goes to the bigger sopranos and mezzos - all that tragedy! I wanted to be a mezzo. LOL

But i must say that i am having fun embracing the fluff!

[Voronwen]

But now i have to wonder, Tessar - if you could sing any role, what would it be?

I always wanted to sing Donna Elvira in Don Giovanni. She just gets to be so catty and terrible! But face it, i would never sing it in this lifetime. Nobody wants to hear a light voice singing Ah, fuggi il traditor! Even i have to laugh.

[Tessar]

Hmm... I don't know! I'll have to think about that one a little. I'm not sure that I have a 'dream' role. I might like to be the poet from La Boheme, mostly because Che Gelida Manina is one of my favorite arias ever.


I feel bad because I didn't practice on Thursday or Friday, I just sang a bit. Been feeling sort of weird and low on energy. I am VERY happy with how my voice is coming along, though! This new supporting seems to be doing wonders for my voice, and we'll see if it holds up to three Sunday services in a row . That's always the real test for me on a technique I've been working on... does it stand up to heavy duty, long singing?

I'm going to need help with the consonant thing... it works, but I'm not sure exactly when to use it. I can't imagine it's for every single consonant. Maybe just starting consonants, or in stressed syllables.

It has made me realize why I sometimes do funny, lisping consonants though, when I sing (and sometimes when I talk too fast): I want to put my consonants in the same place as my vowels, which isn't right at all. I'm working on putting them forwards in the front of my mouth, but it still feels a little awkward because you spit the consonant out then flip back for the vowel. It's a little frustrating, but I'll get it.

I'm going to finish memorizing my Pirates of Penzance stuff in three more days, then start putting it in my voice. I haven't seriously sung anything out of it yet, although I've got it memorized to speak and hum... I think I have about 20/22 days till rehearsals start, so I've got lots of time yet. I was wanting to wait till I had a lesson to start working on it, and now that I've had one I can .

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Hmm... I don't know! I'll have to think about that one a little. I'm not sure that I have a 'dream' role. I might like to be the poet from La Boheme, mostly because Che Gelida Manina is one of my favorite arias ever.

Ah Hmm... on the subject of La Boheme... i don't know why so many sopranos want to sing Mimi. I find her music rather boring. I'd prefer to sing Musetta myself! I'd just have a lot more fun with that role (and i've heard of coloraturas being cast on occasion!).

I feel bad because I didn't practice on Thursday or Friday, I just sang a bit. Been feeling sort of weird and low on energy.

Don't feel bad! My allergies/sinusitis have prevented me from practicing since Thursday myself!

I am VERY happy with how my voice is coming along, though!

Great!

That's always the real test for me on a technique I've been working on... does it stand up to heavy duty, long singing?

Yes, that IS the real test!

[Tessar]

Hmmm... well it's difficult to say for sure, but I think I'm definitely headed in the right direction.

I'm exhausted right now... it's really hard work to keep your ribs out like that! Especially to do it three services in a row. For the first service it was amazing and I was nailing stuff with ease that I've struggled with in the past, which is a great sign. The second service things started to fall apart a little bit... I think I stopped being able to support my ribs as well, so I started gripping with my throat a little bit in an attempt to maintain the feeling of support. My throat got a little tired, but it's fine now. Feels normal, or maybe even a little better, so no fear there!

With more practice, and as I build strength, I'm sure that wont be as much of a problem any more. I'm starting to understand how to do pianissimos though, which is great! I just expand the pressure of my ribs and let my voice be tiny, but keep it placed high. It keeps a lot of the ping, but gets very small. I'm sure with practice and time it will develop into the real deal, but I think I'm starting to understand it .

[Voronwen]

Ooh! Pianissimi are supposed to be very difficult for larger voices (and by "larger", i mean anything even slightly bigger than mine! ). Supposedly they come naturally to us light-voiced types, but for mid-weight and larger it's supposed to be very impressive and take real work!! From what you're describing, that would appear to be true.

It's good to hear that you're on the right track!


ETA, here's an analogy about support from one of my teachers: Visualize the air/support being like a big, fluffy, billowing skirt beneath you that is being constantly fluffed out with air.

That may not help you as a guy But it has helped me!

Maybe there's an equivalent for guys that you can think of.

[Tessar]

My ribs feel a little sore and tired today, and my throat hurts a little. I'm not 100% sure if it's from the singing yesterday or if it has something to do with allergies... but either way I'm not going to practice today. I did some vocal slides, so no damage... slid from the top of my falsetto to the bottom of my fry with no gaps or cracking, and it didn't do a weird break when it moved from the falsetto into the chest, so the muscles obviously aren't too tired to work and it seems like the cords are also fine.

But I'm going to give my voice some time to rest. This is all very new, I'm sure I'm making lots of mistakes trying to make it work, and there's no sense in wearing out my voice right now, especially since I think part of it may be allergies.

[Tessar]

Well I really feel like this support thing is making a big difference. Today I sang a little bit of Apres Un Reve by Faure, which has always been impossible for me to make sound good in the past... and today it sounds pretty decent! I sang it up to a D4 (i.e. the first arpeggio ends on a D (for 'dans unsomel') which I can't remember what key that would put it in... but it worked out nicely.

It's just weird... the amount of pressure I have to sustain on my ribs feels enormous. I feel like having that much pressure there -should- be making me tense, and closing off my voice... but when I do it my throat feels free, and my voice is fuller than it used to be and SO much more controllable. It's just weird.

It's like... you're lifting a 100lb weight, and you KNOW its a really heavy weight, and that you normally couldn't budge it... but strangely when you go to lift it the weight feels light as a feather. You know? My brain is telling me that with that much effort put into holding my ribs out my throat should be tight, but the actual physical reaction is totally different.


I am having a problem with a slightly unfocused sound (which has always been a problem--nothing new) and using that 'roar' seems to help quite a bit with it. I think it's just a placement issue. I can't focus on it too much though, or the support slips because I stop thinking about it. Well, one step at a time. The support is more important for the moment, IMO, because I think the support will help preserve my voice during the upcoming rehearsals . Plus I already know (somewhat! ) how to deal with the placement, I just need to be able to focus on it long enough to do it .

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

It's just weird... the amount of pressure I have to sustain on my ribs feels enormous. I feel like having that much pressure there -should- be making me tense, and closing off my voice... but when I do it my throat feels free, and my voice is fuller than it used to be and SO much more controllable. It's just weird.

I both can relate and not relate. I almost wonder if you're trying too hard? But let your teacher handle it.

Well, one step at a time.

That's the way to go! Eventually one thing will become like second nature and then you can concentrate on the next.

While practicing today, i was thinking about what you've said about classifying our voices by what we sing (the repertoire). I *still* think, going by the music that i sing the most comfortably, healthfully, and technically well, that i fall somewhere between lyric and coloratura One of my teachers said once that there are some voices that fall between categories and therefore cannot be classified, and maybe that's what's going on here. If you want i could list some of my best arias and see what you think..?

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

While practicing today, i was thinking about what you've said about classifying our voices by what we sing (the repertoire). I *still* think, going by the music that i sing the most comfortably, healthfully, and technically well, that i fall somewhere between lyric and coloratura One of my teachers said once that there are some voices that fall between categories and therefore cannot be classified, and maybe that's what's going on here. If you want i could list some of my best arias and see what you think..?

Yes, some voices do fall 'between' classifications. But once again it all comes down to picking a label that makes you marketable and shows the people hiring you that you have a solid idea of what you are.

For instance when/if I ever get a handle on the A4 there's nothing to stop me from singing something like Freddy in My Fair Lady, Raul in Phantom of the Opera, or even a couple of minor tenor roles in some operas.

But does that mean I'd label myself as a tenor? Probably not.

I think you need to decide where the MAJORITY of your rep. lies, and either label yourself through that or simply decide not to decide . Just call yourself a soprano if you want and cut all of the labels out .



I haven't gotten a chance to practice voice yet today (woke up late so I'm giving my voice time to wake up ), but I was singing in the shower a little and I think part of my difficulty might be in not evenly distributing the 'weight' of my support. I think I've been so focused on getting the ribs up and out that I've lost focus on using the back as well. When I tried using the back as an extra support for the ribs I think it made a difference.

Still figuring this thing out, but I do like what it's doing for my voice .

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Yes, some voices do fall 'between' classifications. But once again it all comes down to picking a label that makes you marketable and shows the people hiring you that you have a solid idea of what you are.

Umm.... "light soprano"?

For instance when/if I ever get a handle on the A4 there's nothing to stop me from singing something like Freddy in My Fair Lady, Raul in Phantom of the Opera, or even a couple of minor tenor roles in some operas.

But does that mean I'd label myself as a tenor? Probably not.

Hey, you would ROCK as Raoul! I'm a Christine (one of the only musical theater roles that covers my whole range and doesn't sit too low ). If we ever meet in person we'll have to find a pianist and sing "All I Ask Of You" together, just for the fun of it.

I think you need to decide where the MAJORITY of your rep. lies, and either label yourself through that

Here's where i have always, simply, defaulted to "light lyric soprano". It simply implies a soprano voice that is light and high. I've seen coloraturas and lyrics alike being described as such in reviews. I've had as many teachers/coaches/etc call me a lyric as they've called me a coloratura. It's really ambiguous. I think "light lyric" in my case fits. I've been cast (in scenes) as everything from Sophie (Der Rosenkavalier), Tytania (Midsummer Night's Dream), Almirena (Rinaldo), to Pamina (Magic Flute). I'd call the first a soubrette, the second a coloratura, the third a light lyric, and the last a lyric.

I think in my case it's because my voice has some timbre and qualities of a coloratura, and some of a lyric. Maybe that *is* a "lyric coloratura"?

or simply decide not to decide . Just call yourself a soprano if you want and cut all of the labels out .

That sounds very liberating!!!!!

I think part of my difficulty might be in not evenly distributing the 'weight' of my support. I think I've been so focused on getting the ribs up and out that I've lost focus on using the back as well. When I tried using the back as an extra support for the ribs I think it made a difference.

Yes! The whole ribcage and all the surrounding muscles, both front and back, need to expand (comfortably, not over-extended) and contract, and be flexible enough to give at need (much like not locking your joints during exercise). You'll get it!

[Varnafindë]

Today I'm back home at a computer with a proper sound card, and we've connected it to a sound mixer and I'm listening to it with a headphone. So I've been listening through the sound examples you've given (of coloratura and such) with proper sound. Great! And I found some recommendations in the Classical Music thread as well, so I've been enjoying good music for a while tonight.

I'm doing "singing" over in the Role Playing threads - Tessar, didn't you have the character that my character is interacting with now (Eärniel is moving him on) in Long Lost Leaves? He's going to perform the Lay of Leithan, and she will accompany him.
It's so much easier being a great singer in a work of literature - you just write that you are

[Tessar]

*sigh* Well now I'm confused. I'm starting to wonder if that 'unfocused' sound I'm hearing isn't partially just my resonance. I'll have to bring a recording to my voice teacher and say, 'this is what my microphone is picking up, is it just a bad mic or is that really the sound I'm making?'

Because I honestly can't figure out what it is. Listening to the recordings at a high volume I'm starting to think that it could just be a resonant 'buzz' to my voice that the mic can't interpret, but then again it could actually be a lack of focus. It's so frustrating not to know.

I've tested, and I really don't have much air escaping when I sing, so it's not like a breathy sound. I dunno.

[Voronwen]

It's better to have this, than to have a sound that's too tight or "pressed". This is a much easier problem to remedy, and usually just takes care of itself as your technique grows and adjusts over time.

Definitely ask your teacher about it, though. Has anyone pointed it out to you before? If not then maybe it is just your recording.

[Tessar]

No one has ever mentioned it to me. My teacher has said my voice is very focused sounding, and that I have a lot of resonance, which is what makes me wonder if it's just the mic.

I think I discovered that I'm over-singing. I thought I was singing 'fully', but it seems like I may have actually been forcing the sound a little. It has nothing to do with the 'roar' sensation... that stays. But I think I was allowing there to be some pressure in the throat. Again, it's something I'll have to ask my teacher about.

The support thing is still coming along very well, I think. Today I got my lower back muscles to expand/engage as well as the ribs, so I think that's improving nicely .

Hopefully I'll have a lesson this Wednesday!

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

No one has ever mentioned it to me. My teacher has said my voice is very focused sounding, and that I have a lot of resonance

Well, i'd listen to your "trusted ears" on this one If your teacher and other professionals that you've worked with have never mentioned a less-than-focused sound, and your current teacher says you have a VERY focused sound, then i wouldn't worry too much about it. Just keep doing what you know is right.

which is what makes me wonder if it's just the mic

My other thought was that perhaps it's just a unique characteristic of your timbre. Every voice has quirks and unique undefinable aspects that make it 'you'.

So if you're using your voice properly then perhaps that's all it is.

I think I discovered that I'm over-singing.

Oh no Oversinging is pain! Yet it happens to all of us at one time or another (yes, even the pros). I think it's because there is something that just feels so satisfying about a good fortissimo with your whole voice and body behind it! But think back to your "with ease" phrase and you should be all set!

The support thing is still coming along very well, I think.

Good!