LLL Discussion thread part II

[Coffeehouse]

So let me get this right,

Haldis asks Nami, Quickleaf and Abasi to clean some dishes. The reaction from Abasi to cleaning a few dishes is giving Haldis an icy look, giving a look of disgust and promising not to wash dishes until Haldis lies buried in the grave.

That's not poor treatment?

I give up!

[Curufin]

No, it's not. In his culture, people of his caste don't wash dishes. They don't bear burdens and they don't do cleaning work. It's offensive to ask. So yes, he took offense at it. It's really not that strange.

[Willow Oran]

Both of you are ignoring the fact that I said she walked away immediately. She wasn't there to see said icy look, or Quickleaf's response. All she knows is that she asked them to do a simple task and they fought instead. I'm afraid she's going to be rather brusque with both of them for the time being, however, she will still be inclined to grant respect to Abasi's great age.

If you use my in character observations to re-start that argument in the discussion thread I will be angry. Quit it.

[Curufin]

*sheepish*

Sowwy.

I'll behave now, I promise...

[Coffeehouse]

*This is a conciliatory post!*

Like I said.. I give up!

But on a side-note, I can't think of a single known warrior-culture in the entire world history where doing a few homechores was offensive to the said warriors. Except in Hollywood movies..

One of the most fanatic, dedicated warrior groups, the Hashashin, fierce and prepared to die on the sword.. dressed up as entertainers and painters and did all sorts of normal stuff either to blend into the palace where their target lived.

The Knight Templars, dedicated to a soldiers life, were in the end, dedicated to the defense of the poor, and would do everything from washing to growing plants on their own.

The samurai of Japan. Fierce, but humble when appropriate. Did not put themselves above the rest of society, but as protectors of society.

Being a true warrior is defending the weak! Like Zorro

But training for fighting for what? And taking offense at everything for the purpose of? Give us reasons (This doesn't compromise Abasi as a character at all) for Abasi's fanatical commitment to his warrior ways and I'm sure there will be more understanding even from Quickleaf

[Curufin]

Well, Abasi is certainly not based on a movie. I haven't seen a movie in over a year and I don't even own a TV, so don't pull that on me.

I really don't see the point in explaining Abasi's motivations to you. I've done it again and again, and you're determined not to understand and to find new ways to insult him. Don't really understand why you do this, but I don't really appreciate it.

You don't see me attacking Quickleaf's character constantly, do you?

[Mari]

Oh, you have a poetic view of samurai....
Does the Avarin warrior culture have to be based on Earth history?
Ellysa's culture is a warriorculture also.

[Acalewia]

Originally Posted by Willow Oran

Both of you are ignoring the fact that I said she walked away immediately. She wasn't there to see said icy look, or Quickleaf's response. All she knows is that she asked them to do a simple task and they fought instead. I'm afraid she's going to be rather brusque with both of them for the time being, however, she will still be inclined to grant respect to Abasi's great age.

If you use my in character observations to re-start that argument in the discussion thread I will be angry. Quit it.

Thank you! They went at it in the game. Let's not restart the argument here. What's done is done. Get over it!

Originally Posted by Curufin

*sheepish*

Sowwy.

I'll behave now, I promise...

*Blinks in surprise*

Ok Starbux, we get the point.


Curufin, is right. You really are dragging this out just to argue with someone. It not worth it. And we could go on and on about Quickleaf's wanting to sit around and sing all the time.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Curufin

Well, Abasi is certainly not based on a movie. I haven't seen a movie in over a year and I don't even own a TV, so don't pull that on me.

I really don't see the point in explaining Abasi's motivations to you. I've done it again and again, and you're determined not to understand and to find new ways to insult him. Don't really understand why you do this, but I don't really appreciate it.

You don't see me attacking Quickleaf's character constantly, do you?

Haha come on.. I've lost count of the times Quickleaf is directly or indirectly referred to as an uwindi. And not to mention the two challenges to fight to death..
And all that frowning Always frowning at everything. It's tiresome, and that's where Quickleaf's reaction come in. Just realize that Quickleaf wasn't predisposed to dislike Abasi. It's a reaction to Abasi's treatment of him and others.

And knowing Abasi's motivations would be nice. No I don't think his motivations have been explained. There's only been talk of him coming from a proud warrior culture, and all sorts of made-up words like uwindi and m'haid and whatnot so Quickleaf doesn't know what Abasi's warrior-character stands for. What is his.. motto

But you don't have to answer this last post. My previous post was a cross-post with your other post Curu. We can end it here if you don't want to share your warrior culture with me

[Midge]

Originally Posted by Curufin

*sheepish*

Sowwy.

I'll behave now, I promise...

I believe you mean "I pwomise"!

[Curufin]

You're conflating what I've done IN CHARACTER and OUT OF CHARACTER again.

Yes, Abasi doesn't like Quickleaf.

But Curufin has never attacked Quickleaf's character, and I have never asked you twenty hostile questions about why you play Quickleaf the way you do.

And I don't appreciate you constantly questioning why I play my character the way I do. Why don't you spend more time with your own character, and leave mine alone?

[Midge]

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse

Haha come on.. I've lost count of the times Quickleaf is directly or indirectly referred to as an uwindi. And not to mention the two challenges to fight to death..
And all that frowning Always frowning at everything. It's tiresome, and that's where Quickleaf's reaction come in. Just realize that Quickleaf wasn't predisposed to dislike Abasi. It's a reaction to Abasi's treatment of him and others.

And knowing Abasi's motivations would be nice. No I don't think his motivations have been explained. There's only been talk of him coming from a proud warrior culture, and all sorts of made-up words like uwindi and m'haid and whatnot so Quickleaf doesn't know what Abasi's warrior-character stands for. What is his.. motto

Isn't that the point though? That we all don't understand because Abasi and Tabril don't want to tell us?

Their motivations come from a culture in which the rest of us take no part! So if we were to ask them of their motivations (which we have) and they tell us (which they sort of have... VERY indirectly)... we don't begin to understand at all... we just keep saying, "How stupid* they are for not being like us." If they told you their motivations, would you change your mind, or would you just think, "Oh! How dumb!" and go right back to talking about how they're stupid for not being like the rest of us?

And so, Coffeehouse, this is my advice to Quickleaf: Give up on Abasi and Tabril learning to be peacemongers among this group. They are more loyal to their society than to us, and for good reason (which is: what reason do they have to be loyal to us? Both of them are with us for reasons they didn't choose, like, ask for, etc.). ACCEPT THEM AS THEY ARE. They might stop frowning at Quickleaf if he did that!

Edit: Note I said they MIGHT stop frowning. NO guarantees.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Curufin

You're conflating what I've done IN CHARACTER and OUT OF CHARACTER again.

Yes, Abasi doesn't like Quickleaf.

But Curufin has never attacked Quickleaf's character, and I have never asked you twenty hostile questions about why you play Quickleaf the way you do.

And I don't appreciate you constantly questioning why I play my character the way I do. Why don't you spend more time with your own character, and leave mine alone?

The reason you're not attacking Quickleaf's character is that he doesn't go out of his way to be negative

And you have to be able to take questions when you have decided to make such a aggressive character. That comes with making such a character. Just as making a really dull character makes the author near invisible, making a really aggressive and mostly negative character makes the author exposed! But it's not personal. It's curiousity

[Acalewia]

Curufin, could you give traslations to the language Abasi uses. I'm getting a bit confused.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Curufin

You're conflating what I've done IN CHARACTER and OUT OF CHARACTER again.

Yes, Abasi doesn't like Quickleaf.

But Curufin has never attacked Quickleaf's character, and I have never asked you twenty hostile questions about why you play Quickleaf the way you do.

And I don't appreciate you constantly questioning why I play my character the way I do. Why don't you spend more time with your own character, and leave mine alone?

Originally Posted by Midge

Isn't that the point though? That we all don't understand because Abasi and Tabril don't want to tell us?

Their motivations come from a culture in which the rest of us take no part! So if we were to ask them of their motivations (which we have) and they tell us (which they sort of have... VERY indirectly)... we don't begin to understand at all... we just keep saying, "How stupid* they are for not being like us." If they told you their motivations, would you change your mind, or would you just think, "Oh! How dumb!" and go right back to talking about how they're stupid for not being like the rest of us?

And so, Coffeehouse, this is my advice to Quickleaf: Give up on Abasi and Tabril learning to be peacemongers among this group. They are more loyal to their society than to us, and for good reason (which is: what reason do they have to be loyal to us? Both of them are with us for reasons they didn't choose, like, ask for, etc.). ACCEPT THEM AS THEY ARE. They might stop frowning at Quickleaf if he did that!

Edit: Note I said they MIGHT stop frowning. NO guarantees.

No, difference is good. But being different for a reason is even better I enjoy Tabril and Abasi's difference, but it would be helpful if it wasn't completely hostile all the time. It's tiresome But I'm giving up trying to get a slight change in that! It seems falling in love was good for the both of them and the company!

The last time Abasi frowned at Quickleaf, he was walking out of the forest.. But Quickleaf has in fact begun ignoring Abasi anyways so the frowning can persist if it must

[Curufin]

Sure, Acalewia, not a problem. I'll send you a PM.

Coffeehouse - I don't want to explain Abasi's culture out of character more than I have. I want Abasi to explain it in character. And no, it's not going to be straightforward, because that's boring. The writers can find out when their characters do.

The reason you're not attacking Quickleaf's character is that he doesn't go out of his way to be negative

No, the reason I'm not attacking Quickleaf's character is because he's your character, not mine, and I wouldn't presume to tell you how to play him.

[Midge]

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse

And you have to be able to take questions when you have decided to make such a aggressive character.

Technically she doesn't. When the author of a book has written in a confusingly aggressive character, you don't have the author sitting next to you so you can say, "Why is What's-his-doodle so aggressive?" I mean, you might ask that, but you'll get no answer! You have to read the story to find out! So... let Curufin play her guy, you play yours...

And JUST to play the devil's advocate, we could sit here and argue about why Quickleaf, an elf of Lorien, doesn't know how to shoot a bow very well! Or why he sings so much? Or why he cares that Abasi acts the way he does? We could, but we don't.

[Coffeehouse]

No comment We'll just have to agree to disagree!

[Curufin]

Why don't you concentrate on your character and let me concentrate on mine?

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Midge

Technically he doesn't. When the author of a book has written in a confusingly aggressive character, you don't have the author sitting next to you so you can say, "Why is What's-his-doodle so aggressive?" I mean, you might ask that, but you'll get no answer! You have to read the story to find out! So... let Curufin play his guy, you play yours...

And JUST to play the devil's advocate, we could sit here and argue about why Quickleaf, an elf of Lorien, doesn't know how to shoot a bow very well! Or why he sings so much? Or why he cares that Abasi acts the way he does? We could, but we don't.

And that is completely besides the point Because we're not discussing Abasi's choice of weapon, his choice of garment, his made-up elvish words or his hazy past, but his behaviour towards other members. At least that's what I was discussing.

Look, 99.99% of what Abasi does, says, kills, is perfectly alright. But being totally not forthcoming towards f.ex. Quickleaf, let's say arouses my curiousity. That's all! I am not trying to dictate Abasi for you at all

So let's end the discussion ok We're getting nowhere!