Bush addresses the world- Pending War

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I think it is in that context.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
I think it is in that context.

Well it still is in the lines of PG-13.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

True, true...unless it's a very strict rating system. o.O

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
yeah but remember how it was for George Bush Sr. Triumphant victory and less then a year later kicked out the door over tax issues.

It actually had more to do with the fact that we HAD been in a recession and the democrats were able to convince the American that we still were - even though we had been in recovery mode for quite a while before elections. The economy is 75% emotion in my opinion.

As for what the hell is up with the French
They felt they could railroad the US - now that they see they couldn't - they need an excuse to get back into the picture. What better way than to say "Hey we'll join if Hussein uses the chemical weapons (we all know he has) on you." It's a way of saving face without joining the battle right off the bat. They know it would be really hypocrital if they supplied troops imediately - this just gives them an excuse. Also Chirac knows he has to get on our good side now. He's basically severely weakened the US and France relationship by trying to stonewall us.

[Dúnedain]

I just want to say, Tony Blair is awesome!! I am sure the majority of my American counterparts hold the same viewpoint of him as I do. For a number of years, I've always held great respect for Tony Blair and today, after watching him address the House of Commons I hold even more respect for that man. He has put himself and his job on the line time and time again for what he felt was right. That takes a person of strong character and will. He is a very brave man and I think he represents Great Britain extremely well. I applaud him for everything he has done over the years.

Also, in case no one saw, which I am sure the majority of our British friends have, the House of Commons voted to support Blair today 412-149.

[johnnyrod]

So back on topic..... has anybody yet worked out what the purpose of the war is? (It seems we have no choice in whether it takes place or not, our democratically-elected leaders are not listening any more.) Removal of Saddam? Surely this would make him a martyr, the reason he has survived this long without something as simple as assassination. Overthrow of the government? To make way for what? Re-run of last time? Remember the acronym "snafu" was invented by the military. Just where is the finish line? And for that matter, once the US and its allies have stamped all over this dictatorial regime and bombed its infrastructure into pointlessness, will they go after the others? I somehow doubt it.

[crickhollow]

Thanks for that update, Dúnedain, I feel so isolated up here with very limited access to TV. I rely mostly on internet newsites for my info, and you really can miss a lot that way. *goes to look up the transcripts of Blair's remarks*

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Wow, that's a rather staggering majority!

[markedel]

That's how the parliamentary system works-you stick with your party-and the opposition was in favor as well. It's not like Congress, party lines are rarely broken, and if they are there can be hell to pay. Admittidly Britain has a far more powerful caucus than Canada does. In Canada when the PM says jump the MPs ask how high.

[Rána Eressëa]

Here's the part where I cut in out of nowhere to say my feelings towards Bush's decision:

*sigh* Go figure...

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa
Here's the part where I cut in out of nowhere to say my feelings towards Bush's decision:

*sigh* Go figure...

huh?

[Dúnedain]

Here is something else to think about.

At the end of the Gulf War, it actually didn't end. In exchange for Iraqi disarmament within a 45-day period a ceasefire was agreed to. Now, some 13 years later that disarmament still hasn't been done. Finally we are uplifting the ceasefire and will disarm Iraq by force under Resolution 687 of the UN. Too bad the UN couldn't live up to the words they passed some 13 years ago....

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
What the hell is up with the French?

You know, to me it seems like the French are in some respects very alike Americans. They're very proud of their country, history and culture. They don't like other countries telling them what to do. As I see it, the USA and France have both acted foolishly not being able to listen to each other and accept a difference in opinion, but rather have use threats and abuses.

As for the war, I had hoped the UN could back it up, but they never got the last chance to reach an agreement. So USA is now going to this war alone (and I cannot believe Saddam will ever give himself up). Now I support the war, but I seriously believe this is going to cost the Americans a lot of goodwill around the world. And watch out for the Arab countries. This war is going to raise the anger of the citizens in these countries, and I'm afraid the danger of terrorism is not going to decrease, but rather the opposite.

I've no doubt that the USA will take Iraq, but to which prize? It's of course going to cost blood. I predict the Iraqi soldiers are going to hide themselves in the city of Baghdad and push their civilians in front, and they're going to ambush the US forces. Some have said Iraq will be taken in 2 days, but I doubt it. Weeks are more likely.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Artanis
As for the war, I had hoped the UN could back it up, but they never got the last chance to reach an agreement. So USA is now going to this war alone (and I cannot believe Saddam will ever give himself up). Now I support the war, but I seriously believe this is going to cost the Americans a lot of goodwill around the world. And watch out for the Arab countries. This war is going to raise the anger of the citizens in these countries, and I'm afraid the danger of terrorism is not going to decrease, but rather the opposite.

Not alone Artanis, there are 45 countries in the coalition against Iraq, including many Arab countries, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan, United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, to name a few. I listed 34 countries in this post that are part of the coalition.

I doubt it will cost the Americans a lot of goodwill, my reasoning for this is that we will find those weapons of mass destruction amongst other chemical and biological weapons and when the world see's that the US & its allies were correct, then we will be vindicated. I am not worried, I'd bet anything we will find many things Saddam "doesn't have", especially that there is 8500 litres of Antrax unaccounted for. That is scarey! Especially when there were 10 Americans killed by Anthrax last year, seems fishy to me.

I also think the French have shot themselves in the foot. I say this because I think we will also find out a lot of what those billions of dollars of smuggling from France to Iraq included. I hope it is nothing sinister or anything that could have guided Iraq with crude materials for some serious weaponry. I think France has something like $4 Billion worth smuggled/invested into Iraq...

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Not alone Artanis, there are 45 countries in the coalition against Iraq, including many Arab countries, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan, United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, to name a few. I listed 34 countries in this post that are part of the coalition.

Sorry, I didn't express myself clearly. I meant alone as not being backed by a UN resolution. And I wasn't talking about the leaders of the Arab countries, but about the people in these countries. There are extremists that will now have another 'valid' reason to exaggerate the hate to the western world and reqruit people to terrorist organization.

I doubt it will cost the Americans a lot of goodwill

It has already cost you. In Norway, you had tons of sympathy after 9/11, but now there's a clear overall feeling of anti-Americanism around, and Americans are cautious to reveal where they come from because of the danger of being abused. I think you'll find it more or less similar in every European country. It's scary, and sad. When the first blood-stained pictures are coming in from the war, I think it will cost you even more. It's all about feelings, and not necessarily founded on reason, but there you are.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Artanis
.It has already cost you. In Norway, you had tons of sympathy after 9/11, but now there's a clear overall feeling of anti-Americanism around, and Americans are cautious to reveal where they come from because of the danger of being abused. I think you'll find it more or less similar in every European country. It's scary, and sad. When the first blood-stained pictures are coming in from the war, I think it will cost you even more. It's all about feelings, and not necessarily founded on reason, but there you are.

*nods* I don't think many Americans realise just how much damage has been done on a social level

[Rían]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
I doubt it will cost the Americans a lot of goodwill, my reasoning for this is that we will find those weapons of mass destruction amongst other chemical and biological weapons and when the world see's that the US & its allies were correct, then we will be vindicated.

I think we'll be vindicated in one sense (IOW, I think they'll find all sorts of illegal weapons, etc), but sadly, just 'cause we're right about that doesn't mean we'll get good-will back from many. Often, people are (unreasonably) mad at you even if you're right, if they didn't like how you handled it in the first place...

But the US has to do what THEY think is right, even if it means going against opinion...

[markedel]

I just hope that the ending isn't too terrible. Winning a war is useless unless the peace is won as well. I don't know if this peace can be won. Maybe it can be...but it will take a long, long time. I'd say a decade to rebuild Iraq and simultanously craft a Palestinian state alongside Israel. If these two can be done (and I suppose the concrete threat of American involvement is useful-we in the West may not understand the middle east, but the middle east doesn't get us either) then the U.S will be successful. A democratic Iraq and a peaceful Israel maylead to the ultimate destruction of Arab tyranny-the combination of a positive example and the lack of scapegoat and distraction (which is why I think the Arab governments are willing to let the problem fester) maylead the vaunted "Arab street" to look around at itself and realize that their leadership has ultimately led to suffering for themselves.
Perhaps U.S force will let the Arab world realize that the U.S is concerned not just with oil flowing but with a better order. Or perhaps it will just inflame things and everything will fall apart. Judging by Bush's diplomatic skills I'd say the latter. But who really knows? This is a high stakes gamble with an extremely high payoff. I just hope the the U.S doesn't lose its shirt, because if the U.S loses its shirt the rest of the world takes it on the nose.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Artanis
You know, to me it seems like the French are in some respects very alike Americans. They're very proud of their country, history and culture. They don't like other countries telling them what to do.

Hey we should give the french a break. I mean after all if it wasnt for the French at Yorktown Tony Blair would be our leader today!

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Coney
*nods* I don't think many Americans realise just how much damage has been done on a social level

Oh well, sacrifices need to be made for the greater good, and I am sure many of us Americans would sacrifice "goodwill" in order to protect our livelihoods and yours (remember that)...