Religious Knowledge Thread

[Rían]

Funny joke, Gwaimir, and sadly all too true for some churches...

I just read thru the thread and I'll throw in my 2 cents here on a couple of issues -

Re the Bible version - The NIV (New International Version) is pretty much the standard in the non-denominational Christian churches that I've been to. Since language changes as time goes by, it made sense to update the translations. (Even Tolkien's imaginary languages like Sindarin and Quenya evolved, which is part of what makes them feel so authentic. As you read more of the History of Middle Earth stuff, you'll be amazed at the language details and things like 'the p sound shifted to a dh in the Sindarin language, while changing to a tp in Quenya") (made-up example, but there's lots of stuff like that.)

To the best of my knowledge, all Protestent churches do Communion, but how often they do it varies. I imagine some uber-liberal (as TC said ) churches may have dropped it, though. Our church has been having it available at every service starting about 6 months ago - the idea is to come a little early to prepare your heart for worship and teaching, so we just go up and get the little bread wafer and the little cup of juice by ourselves, then sit quietly in our seats and pray and take it when we feel ready. I like doing it that way. We also have some 'official' communions, too, where we pass the bread and cup thru the aisles and take it all together.

Can't you take any language courses, Gwaimir? I would think you'd like to, if you're living somewhere for awhile.

[Rían]

I heard something last week that I'd like to know more about from anyone that knows Judaism - someone said that the animal sacrifices for sin can't be done because there's no temple, so now study of the Torah is considered to be the substitute for the animal sacrifices. Can anyone comment on that?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Language courses?

O, do you mean this?

I mean imagine going to church every week, and having it in Portuguese or Russian.

Well, I do speak some Russian and Portuguese, but to get to the point of mastery where I could really understand the sermons...No, sadly I've never gotten there. And it isn't the same with a translator whispering in your ear, where you can't hear about 1/3-1/2 of what they say.

[Starr Polish]

Originally posted by Coney
They do? Geez I was christened a Methodist (not very devout as you can see)..

In a distant church somewhere there is a couple of gallons of communion wine with my name on it!

*off in search of divine inspiration*

Methodists use juice now, since no "first communion" is necessary and children are allowed to take the Communion. Sorry Coney.

Frodosgirlfriend, Gwaimer Windgem (can I cal you GW?) pretty much covered most of your questions, but not the last one. A lot of times when you go to Christian rock concerts and things, the band will say that "if you feel you have not been saved..." and such. Even if the place is a church or a church sponsored event, this does NOT mean that everyone is saved. Going to church, and even belief in God doesn't mean that one is saved. Several people (including myself) have thought they were saved once, but really weren't. When bands say things like that, is gives you teh oppurtunity to look over your life and decide if you really are saved.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Lots of other people call me GW, and I have no objection to it, so certainly.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Coney, I have a question, but I'm a bit hesitant to ask it. I don't know if it would be considered offensive or too private, so if it is, then just let me know. Do you have any preferences to any specific gods/goddesses?

P.S. As long as we are talking about pagans, I would say that I am inclined to agree with IR, that I would think that the 'true' pagans would be people with an unbroken line from the old days of the religion.

[jerseydevil]

In the Greek Catholic Church the mass is chanted.

A friend of mine from Indiana had never been to a fulfledged funeral mass before. He really was surprised by my mother's wake - with the priest chanting the eulogy, which takes about an hour - standing the entire time. Then the funeral mass before the burial was a full mass - all chanted. Funerals seemed to be less of a formal thing in the midwest - at least where I lived in Indiana.

I used to tell people when I was younger that I was Roman/Greek Catholic because we used to mix the two religions. I was baptised Greek Catholic, but recieved First Holy Communion in the Roman Catholic Church. When I was in kindergarten and 1st grade we used to go to Greak Catholic Churches, but then later we always went to Roman Catholic.

I never really encountered the "My religion is right, yours is wrong" attitude until we moved to Indiana. I was surprised at how the Christian religions argue with each other and basically put each other down. I'd be rich if I was paid everytime I heard that Catholics are a bunch of alcoholics or any number of deragatory things. And the attitude wasn't just directed at Catholics, the Baptists put down the other religions, the Lutherans did, the Pentecostals did, the Catholics ridiculed the Lutherans. My sister's wedding, in Tennessee, the "pastor" made a snide comment about Catholics. I guess he didn't realise that my sister and my whole family is Catholic. My friend Kim was insulted by his comment - I guess I had just gotten used to those kind of comments. My father and my uncle's family weren't too happy by his comment either during the wedding.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Starr Polish
Methodists use juice now, since no "first communion" is necessary and children are allowed to take the Communion.

Catholics, both Greek and Roman, use wine. Even children - as long as they've recieved First Holy Communion drink the wine - it's only a sip anyway.

This is a Greek Roman Catholic Mass - although it's in Arabic I think - but it's the same exact chanting as the English. -

* Greek Catholic Mass (Side 1), Mass
* Greek Catholic Mass (Side 2), Mass

[Baby-K]

Which Protestant denominations partake in Holy Communion?

I think most do, but not in the same way (some might use juice and others wine). In our church we partake in first Communion the first Sunday after Confirmation and we make use of wine, so children do not partake in Communion really.

Coney - I have a few questions re the Paganism, hope you wouldn't mind enlightening me?

1 How do you know which of the dieties deserve to be worshipped? (I was a bit confused by that statement)
2 Do these dieties have names such as the case with Hinduism, Bhuddism etc?
3 Do the Pagans worship the actual objects such as rocks or are these merely symbols of the diety that they believe in? (a representation of the living spirit or whatever being worshipped). If not how does a rock posess power to do anything for you? Or is the rock a symbol of something else like the strength of the earth or something?

I find it very interesting to hear of these things as I have hardly any experience of it and I enjoy learning new things.

Also a question to the Catholics:

1 Christianity teaches that the only way to be absolved from sin is if you accept Jesus Christ as your saviour and live according to His teachings - why then is the ritual of confession so important in the Roman Catholic dogma? If I understand it correctly you confess your sins to a priest who in turn gives absolution?

A question re Judaism:

1 Jesus Christ is not accepted as the saviour, but as a false messiah and as I understand it Jewish people are still awaiting the first coming of the Messiah. What I do not understand is how this Messiah will be recognised & after his coming will Judaism as we know it cease to exist?

Gwaimer - thanks for starting this thread, I have actually taken the time to read the whole thing from start to it's current point & I must say I find (almost) everyone's posts informative & interesting.

Legolsalvr - I do not see how people wanting to find out more about Catholicism is offensive, no-one has said anything derogatory about it.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Baby-K
Also a question to the Catholics:

Christianity teaches that the only way to be absolved from sin is if you accept Jesus Christ as your saviour and live according to His teachings - why then is the ritual of confession so important in the Roman Catholic dogma? If I understand it correctly you confess your sins to a priest who in turn gives absolution?

The Sacrament of Penance (Confession) is one by which Orthodox Christians, who have repented their sins, come before God and the Church to seek reconciliation and ask for divine forgiveness. The faithful make their confession and receive absolution from God. This video provides a presentation of the sacrament, as well as an incisive examination on issues of sin, repentance, preparation for confession and the role of the priest in the sacrament.

Real Player Video - Penance

There are other videos that explain the Greek Orthodox Church One explains the Good Friday Mass - with the chanting and everything.

Greek Orthodox is very similar to Greek Catholic.

Even though you asked in regards to Roman Catholics - the sacrement is pretty much the same. The chanting doesn't occur in Roman Catholicism.

In 8th grade at my Catholic school - we were told that we didn't really have to go to confession because God knew if we were truly sorry anyway.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Baby-K
Also a question to the Catholics:

Christianity teaches that the only way to be absolved from sin is if you accept Jesus Christ as your saviour and live according to His teachings - why then is the ritual of confession so important in the Roman Catholic dogma? If I understand it correctly you confess your sins to a priest who in turn gives absolution?

The sacrament of Confession or Penance was instituted by Jesus when he said to his apostles "receive the Holy Spirit, whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, whose sins you retain are retained", meaning that the apostles had the right to forgive sins in Jesus' name. In the confessional, when the priest abosolves the sinner, absolution only takes effect if the sinner is truly sorry, only God would know this, so God is working through the priest.
Confession is imortant to us Catholics because sin wounds not only us but other people. In confessing what you have done to another, you acknowledge this.

[Arien the Maia]

Does anybody here belong to an Eastern Catholic Church? I have alwasy been interested in the rituals of the Eastern Catholics. Since I'm Roman Catholic ( a Western Catholic Rite) I've always wondered what some of the differences are. If anyone could help that would be great!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

What is the reference for that verse, if you don't mind?

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
What is the reference for that verse, if you don't mind?

John Ch. 20 vs 21-23. I am using the New American Bible.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Thanks.

[markedel]

Jesus is not really seen as a false messiah-unlike the real false messiahs he never convinced large chunks of world Jewry to believe that he was going to create a free Jewish state that would not be oppressed (the only really agreed upon characreristic of a Jewish messiah). There are lots of legends and discussion about Jewish eschatology-Elijah the prophet heralding the Messiah, a Messiah called "Moshiach ben Joseph" (think Ephraim and Menasseh-it's not some sort of Christian thing) who dies, and another Messiah "Moshiach ben David" arising and finishing stuff off-either way it would be 2 men, they (or he depending on who you ask) are not divine. What's important to realize is that Judaism is not so focused on messianism-it is assumed that in the messianic era the Torah would still apply, things would generally carry on as per usual, there'd be no great spiritual change.

If the temple was rebuilt most orthodox Jews would say animal sacrifices would be re-established. Generally prayer services are seen as replacing sacrifices (the times of the Jewish prayers services correspond to various sacrifices). Torah study is required alongside sacrifices, not instead of it. In fact in prayer services Jews (well religious ones anyways) there are prayers that explicitly call for a return to sacrifices, and the verses that lay out the laws for sacrifices are incorporated into the service.

As for learning another language for praying-to understand a Jewish service you pretty much need some grasp of Hebrew. Actually that's why Jewish literacy rates were once much higher then the general population-if you can't read you can't study and really join in services, so you must learn to read.

[Rían]

JD - I've been to a Greek Orthodox wedding, and I liked the part where they put the little crown things tied together with a ribbon on the bride and groom.

Sorry you've heard such mean comments about Catholics

I've heard some chanting from the Armenian church liturgy (?) and it's really nice. I still remember some of the lines (in Armenian!)

[Starr Polish]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Catholics, both Greek and Roman, use wine. Even children - as long as they've recieved First Holy Communion drink the wine - it's only a sip anyway.

Yeah, I'm quite aware that Catholic Children take Holy Communion, but usually they are at least of school age. I've been taking Communion since I was two or three, though I didn't understand it until I was about eight or nine.

Wouldn't all people who call themselves Pagan actually be Neo-Pagan?

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Starr Polish
Wouldn't all people who call themselves Pagan actually be Neo-Pagan?

Yeah I think by definition they would have to be. Although I think its really just a samantic exciercise and not really important.

[markedel]

So how do pagans pick which gods to pray to? I have heard that many pagan religions hold up a high god of sorts-does that hold. Or is it more of a pantheist type thing, like Shintoism?