Why D'you all want to be Elves? - Page 5

Legoles · 03-02-2003, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruinel
Absolutely!
Feanor: great example of "hubris", "anger", "violence".

The Kinslaying at Alaqualonde! Do I need to say more?

Elves in The Hobbit: always thought they were "greedy" when they came after Bilbo and the Dwarves at the Lonely Mountain (of course, after Smaug was killed).

All in all, though, there are many examples of good Elves. However, to say that all Elves have the qualities of goodness, love of nature, etc. as Afro-Elf states... is erroneous.

Yaknow I still think you is weird vewy weid.

Ruinel · 03-03-2003, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Legoles
Yaknow I still think you is weird vewy weid.

Duh,

, How long did it take you to figure that out?

Ruinel · 03-03-2003, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seton,Lothlorien Guardian Because theyre immortal? Theyre fairer of skin and face?
You like bows and arrows?
I dont get it! I wouldnt want to be an Elf.
Imagine having to spend 978000 years as the same person?
Id rather be a Man, where i can be 5000 diffrent people in 1000000 years.. Remember, Men go to the halls of Mandos after death to recieve a new body! Elves do, but only once about 5000 years!

I dont get why you all want to be Elves!?!?
prolly Orlando Bloom... :vp

Ummm, Seton, Orlando Bloom is an actor... and a man. Sorry, to break it to you. He's only pretending to be an Elf. Ok?

I differ from your opinion, I think it would be great to live 978000 years as the same person. I could learn from my mistakes and better myself. I could watch the world evolve (hopefully) into a world of peace (wishful thinking here). The possibilities are endless.

As a man, being reincarnated (assuming that is what you mean by this example above), you do not recall the past lives and you can not learn from past mistakes in a different life. Men are doomed to repeat the same errors as their predecessors.

afro-elf · 03-05-2003, 06:15 AM

Were in Tolkien's work does it say men are reincarnated?

They say the gift of Death. That could mean totally and utter cessation. That would be a form of true " PEACE "

Ruinel · 03-05-2003, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf
Were in Tolkien's work does it say men are reincarnated?

They say the gift of Death. That could mean totally and utter cessation. That would be a form of true " PEACE "

I was only using Legoles'

Quote:

Id rather be a Man, where i can be 5000 diffrent people in 1000000 years..

I assumed Legoles was talking about reincarnation, not that Tolkien's stories had anything in them about reincarnation. In fact, they do not say that at all. What happens to Men after they are dead is not certain, according to Tolkien's works, but that they do not go to the Houses of the Dead (Mandos) is certain.

Arien the Maia · 03-05-2003, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf
They say the gift of Death. That could mean totally and utter cessation. That would be a form of true " PEACE "

But doesn't Tolkien say that men will join in the second music? Whereas the elves don't know what will happen to them when the world ends right?

Ruinel · 03-05-2003, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
But doesn't Tolkien say that men will join in the second music? Whereas the elves don't know what will happen to them when the world ends right?

Not sure of your question. Are you asking whether the Elves know what will happen to the Elves or Men when the world ends?

afro-elf · 03-05-2003, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
But doesn't Tolkien say that men will join in the second music? Whereas the elves don't know what will happen to them when the world ends right?

IIRC I think that is Elven speculation .

Ruinel · 03-05-2003, 09:34 PM

From the Sil

Quote:

Is is one with this gift of freedom that the children of Men dwell only a short space in the world alive, and are not bound to it, and depart soon whither (where) the Elves known not.

bla... bla... bla

Quote:

and dying they (Elves) are gathered to the halls of Mandos in Valinor, whence they may in time return.

So, if the Elves die, go to Mandos, and then return to ME, then they would have news that Men also went to Mandos if they did. But then it also says that the Elves do not know where Men go when they die. So, obviously Men don't go to Mandos. But... then you find this passage...

Quote:

...and he (Melkor) was cast into prison inthe fastness of Mandos, whence none can escape, neither Vala, nor Elf, nor mortal Man.

Why say this if Men did not go to Mandos in the first place?

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-05-2003, 10:57 PM

I think Men did go to Mandos for a short time before passing out of the Circle of the World, didn't they? Otherwise, how would Luthien have convinced Namo to free Beren?

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 03-06-2003, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
I think Men did go to Mandos for a short time before passing out of the Circle of the World, didn't they? Otherwise, how would Luthien have convinced Namo to free Beren?

You are absolutely right. Men did do a hitch in Mandos, at least as far as the Elves believed.

Ruinel · 03-06-2003, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
I think Men did go to Mandos for a short time before passing out of the Circle of the World, didn't they? Otherwise, how would Luthien have convinced Namo to free Beren?

Excellent point!! Then it must be so!

Arien the Maia · 03-06-2003, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
I think Men did go to Mandos for a short time before passing out of the Circle of the World, didn't they? Otherwise, how would Luthien have convinced Namo to free Beren?

Yeah, because men would pass through Mandos to escape from the circles of the world. Beren only stayed in Mandos at the bidding of Luthien...Namo didn't have power to keep men in the circles of the world.

Ruinel · 03-06-2003, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
Yeah, because men would pass through Mandos to escape from the circles of the world. Beren only stayed in Mandos at the bidding of Luthien...Namo didn't have power to keep men in the circles of the world.

Right. Another point of evidence that Men do go to Mandos, if only for a short while.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-07-2003, 01:14 AM

Luthien was there at the slaying of Carcharoth? I didn't remember that!

Ruinel · 03-07-2003, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Luthien was there at the slaying of Carcharoth? I didn't remember that!

She didn't witness the slaying. Beren was brought back to her, mortally wounded. He croaks. Etc, etc.

Indril Anarion · 03-09-2003, 07:06 PM

They're so graceful...beautiful...wise (because they lived for so long), and they can kill an orc in a split second, tough and fair. Totally awesome! The bow and arrow thing is a major bonus too...

afro-elf · 03-09-2003, 08:20 PM

Other races use bows and countless Elves have been slain by orcs.

Elvedans · 03-10-2003, 03:52 PM

But orcs arent fair and lovely.

afro-elf · 03-10-2003, 11:34 PM

That implication is not in my post.

03-05-2003, 06:15 AM	#84
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Were in Tolkien's work does it say men are reincarnated? They say the gift of Death. That could mean totally and utter cessation. That would be a form of true " PEACE " __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

03-05-2003, 10:57 PM	#90
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	I think Men did go to Mandos for a short time before passing out of the Circle of the World, didn't they? Otherwise, how would Luthien have convinced Namo to free Beren? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-07-2003, 01:14 AM	#95
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Luthien was there at the slaying of Carcharoth? I didn't remember that! __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-09-2003, 07:06 PM	#97
Indril Anarion Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: My heart is forever in Mirkwood Posts: 429	I love elves They're so graceful...beautiful...wise (because they lived for so long), and they can kill an orc in a split second, tough and fair. Totally awesome! The bow and arrow thing is a major bonus too... __________________ I'm a Jesus Freak and proud of it... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to us." -Gandalf, FOTR ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Nobody tosses a Dwarf." - Gimli, FOTR ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Save Ferris!!!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My true Elven name is Idril Anarion, but I misspelled in the username, and now I can't fix it... Oh, well...now you know... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Don't be afraid of death....Be afraid of the unlived life- Tuck Everlasting

03-09-2003, 08:20 PM	#98
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Other races use bows and countless Elves have been slain by orcs. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

03-10-2003, 03:52 PM	#99
Elvedans Diamond Of The Night Sky Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Old London Town (Well somewhere near there) Posts: 366	But orcs arent fair and lovely. __________________ I see a little silhouetto of a man. Scaramouche scaramouche will you do the fandango? Thunderbolts and Lightning, very very frightening me!

03-10-2003, 11:34 PM	#100
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	That implication is not in my post. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

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