What religeon are you? - Page 5

Eruviel Greenleaf · 01-06-2003, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anduril
Just as long as you don't label atheism a religion, you naughty girl.

Okay, it's not a religion.

***RÃan*** · 01-06-2003, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anduril
I *snip* text that is not applicable to my reply.

I don't understand what you mean by this. If it is not applicable, then why did you bring it up? Do you perhaps mean that you do not agree with it? That's a different thing. Or do you not mean that, either?

Quote:

If we are to venture into rational discourse, you would be well advised to pack the straw men back into the barn.

I haven't brought any out yet, and I don't intend to

. If we are to venture into rational discourse, I would ask that you post rational replies, instead of using insulting expressions such as "straw men" and then not even bothering to offer reasons why you believe what I said to be a "straw man". I'm open to your apologies over the use of that expression

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It can be two things:

The lack of belief of God or gods, and/or
the belief that God or gods do(es) not exist.

There you go

You say it isn't a belief system, yet the word "belief" is in BOTH of your definitions. That sure seems to invalidate your statement that it's not a belief system.

Well, this is verging on needing to go into another thread, because I want to honor the thread starter's request to not argue. Shall we just "agree to disagree"?

I'm fine with that if you are.

Lizra · 01-06-2003, 06:12 PM

As much as I'd LOVE to see a new thread on this, Anduril is busy with me on our desert island tonight!

Ma Uai: Ua Nemti · 01-06-2003, 06:30 PM

A house must have a builder.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 01-06-2003, 07:21 PM

Do you think, then, that the earth is our house?

samwiselvr2008 · 01-06-2003, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elven Archer
that's what i was gonna say earlier Samwiselver2008 but i didn't.

I don't think you should be forced to go to church but i don't think it's forcing if your still growing up. cause it's your parents job to raise you the best they know how.If you're parents are Christians then they'll most likely bring you to church to help lead your life in the right direction. there's a verse that i can't remember that says something like, Raise a child up in the path of the Lord and when he is grown he shall not depart from it. Ugg i can't remember!!anyway it's something like that.

Another verse (not word perfect, and I can't remember the address) is:
Grow a Child up in the way of the Lord, so that he may teach his children and grandchildren.

Probally bearly close, but...

Nice to know that there are others here that are also Christians! (Other then a 3 people that I have PMed that are also Christians)

Calling everyone who loves Jesus and God, could you please put some refrence to it in you sig? A Bible verse, a quote, a personal thing, or a saying will work! For an exsample, see my Sig., it's the first thing there. It would be nice to just look at your sig. and know that you ARE a Christian also! I like seeing other people with the same religion!

***RÃan*** · 01-06-2003, 10:18 PM

What's so terrible about the "forcing kids to go to church" thing is when parents force their kids to go to church, but they don't themselves go to church. That seems to me to be about the worst thing you can do to kids. That's really hypocritical - no wonder the kids usually grow up hating church.

On the other hand, if you believe that your belief system (Christianity, athiesm, or anything else) is the truth, then of course you would want to teach your children your beliefs.

Hey, samwiselvr2008, is the Narnia quote in my sig good enough? I love that quote! The more we understand of God, the bigger and more wonderful we realize He is (although He Himself never changes, our perception of Him changes and becomes more accurate as we grow).

Ma Uai: Ua Nemti · 01-06-2003, 10:50 PM

BeardofPants · 01-07-2003, 12:33 AM

To clarify:

Atheism is a belief system based on a set of ideas. OR, an ideology. What it isn't, is a religion.

Firekitten2006 · 01-07-2003, 01:02 AM

Wow this has taken a turn for the ugly.

Well maybe I should defend that ^^ I dont really like seeing people argue about eachothers religions. :P It really gets us nowhere. I like learning about other religions.

I dont really have a religion right now.

As far as believing Eru as a God....I agree with (dunno who it was) when they said he is a fictional character...cant bring myself to believe that he ever really existed/will exist/exists.

***RÃan*** · 01-07-2003, 01:08 AM

I would say that by some definitions of the word "religion" that are in the dictionary, atheism could be considered a religion, but I won't bother to "pick that nit" any further with you, BoP, since I already know we disagree

, and it's not a big deal for me anyway. My main concern is that athiesm should NOT be portrayed as a "neutral" position as opposed to religious beliefs, because athiesm is in itself a belief, just like religious beliefs. I would say that we would probably both agree that atheism is not an organized religion, though, which is what many people think of when they think of "religion".

BTW, BoP, re our discussion a month or so ago on this subject, you were saying (IIRC) that all religions had some sort of God in them. From what I can tell, however, Buddhism (which I think you would consider a religion) is an "athiestic religion" - there is no God (people knowing more than I do please feel free to correct me!!)

***RÃan*** · 01-07-2003, 01:15 AM

I just saw your post, Firekitten (I was typing while you posted) - I thought we were still in the realm of polite discussion (which is interesting and informative), not ugly argument (except for the straw men remark

) but maybe it's getting too serious ... shall we "lighten up", zavon? (since you started the thread)

And can anyone "learn" me about that aspect of Buddhism?(speaking of learning about other religions

)

Eruviel Greenleaf · 01-07-2003, 01:16 AM

You're right, Rian--I just looked this up in The World's Religions: Understanding the Living Faiths, by Dr. Peter B. Clarke. It says:

Quote:

For Buddhists, there is no belief in, or worship of, a personal creator God.

I like Buddhism. I think I'm going to look into it more. . .

***RÃan*** · 01-07-2003, 01:21 AM

Thanks for checking that, EG - rather different than most religions, isn't it?

Eruviel Greenleaf · 01-07-2003, 01:24 AM

Yes, quite different. Anything else you'd like to know? I'll gladly look it up for you

***RÃan*** · 01-07-2003, 01:52 AM

Yes - how can I make all my massively-stacked-up-from-being-gone-to-visit-family-at-Christmas-paperwork go away

- without having bill collectors come to visit

*sigh* never mind, I think the only answer to that is to just dive in and do it....

BeardofPants · 01-07-2003, 02:12 AM

Actually, I would consider buddhism to be more of a philosophy, than a religion.

I've always envied my boyfriend, because he was brought up to be buddhist. He even lived with his parents in nepal for a while, and made friends with some buddhist monks. Lucky bastard.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 01-07-2003, 02:14 AM

A very organized philosophy? Yes, I think you're right, BoP.

Yes, Rian, I think that's the best way to go about it

Though it sometimes helps to remember to do just one thing at a time and eventually it all gets done

Finmandos12 · 01-07-2003, 09:27 AM

There are some things I like about Buddhism: living moderately, the eightfold path, etc.

However, from a rational standpoint, I have one big problem with it: the Noble Truth that says that all suffering comes from selfish desire. There's many bad things that cause suffering besides selfish desire (hate, anger). It just doesn't seem right to me that all bad things happen because of selfishness

AndÃºril · 01-08-2003, 05:28 AM

Quote:

RÃ*an:
I don't understand what you mean by this.

That's okay. I'll try to make things clearer for you.

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More:
If it is not applicable, then why did you bring it up? Do you perhaps mean that you do not agree with it? That's a different thing. Or do you not mean that, either?

Here's your misunderstanding. The act of *snipping* deletes text. Whenever I have used the *snip* tool, I have disgarded the text that is irrelevant to my reply as a whole. I see no point in quoting something that I am not replying to.

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I haven't brought any out yet, and I don't intend to

.

Thought as much.

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If we are to venture into rational discourse, I would ask that you post rational replies,

Explain to me why my reply was irrational. Thanks in advance.

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instead of using insulting expressions such as "straw men"

I don't see anything insulting about it.

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and then not even bothering to offer reasons why you believe what I said to be a "straw man".

I thought it was obvious.

You misrepresented my position. I do not make the claim that God or gods do(es) not exist, and I fail to see how, by the viewing of my posts in this thread, you came to that conclusion.

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I'm open to your apologies over the use of that expression

My apologies? Lol!

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You say it isn't a belief system, yet the word "belief" is in BOTH of your definitions.

Correct.

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That sure seems to invalidate your statement that it's not a belief system.

No, it doesn't. Since when does a single belief constitute a belief system? If I believe that the sky is red, is that a system of belief? A lack of the single belief definitely does not constitute a belief system.

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Well, this is verging on needing to go into another thread, because I want to honor the thread starter's request to not argue. Shall we just "agree to disagree"?

I'm fine with that if you are.

If argumentation cannot be used to persuade, then I don't see another option.

Quote:

Lizra:
As much as I'd LOVE to see a new thread on this, Anduril is busy with me on our desert island tonight!

AGAIN!? Kidding! I can't wait for the aerobics

Quote:

RÃ*an:
*snip*

On the other hand, if you believe that your belief system (Christianity, athiesm, or anything else) is the truth,

*snip*

I would be interested to hear your explanation of how atheism can be classified as a belief system. No argumentation, just explanation.

Quote:

BoP:
To clarify:

Atheism is a belief system based on a set of ideas.

*snip*

Why don't you provide your definition of "belief system". That should clear things up a tad.

Quote:

RÃ*an:
I would say that by some definitions of the word "religion" that are in the dictionary, atheism could be considered a religion,

*snip*

Really? Which dictionary is this?

Quote:

More:
My main concern is that athiesm(sic) should NOT be portrayed as a "neutral" position as opposed to religious beliefs, because athiesm is in itself a belief, just like religious beliefs.

Please stipulate the belief of weak atheism.

01-06-2003, 06:12 PM	#83
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	As much as I'd LOVE to see a new thread on this, Anduril is busy with me on our desert island tonight! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

01-06-2003, 06:30 PM	#84
Ma Uai: Ua Nemti Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: We'd tell you but you're all out to get us. Posts: 215	A house must have a builder. __________________ Pharoah "Vires decusque."

01-06-2003, 07:21 PM	#85
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Do you think, then, that the earth is our house? __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

01-06-2003, 10:18 PM	#87
*RÃan* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	What's so terrible about the "forcing kids to go to church" thing is when parents force their kids to go to church, but they don't themselves go to church. That seems to me to be about the worst thing you can do to kids. That's really hypocritical - no wonder the kids usually grow up hating church. On the other hand, if you believe that your belief system (Christianity, athiesm, or anything else) is the truth, then of course you would want to teach your children your beliefs. Hey, samwiselvr2008, is the Narnia quote in my sig good enough? I love that quote! The more we understand of God, the bigger and more wonderful we realize He is (although He Himself never changes, our perception of Him changes and becomes more accurate as we grow). __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ã‘Ã¡ Ã«?* Ã³Ãº Ã©Ã¤ Ã¯Ã¶Ã¼ Ã–Ã± Ã‰ Ãž Ã° ÃŸ Â® Ã§ Ã¥ â„¢ Ã¦ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lÃ³mÃ«! AurÃ« entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 01-06-2003 at 10:20 PM.

01-06-2003, 10:50 PM	#88
Ma Uai: Ua Nemti Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: We'd tell you but you're all out to get us. Posts: 215	Yes __________________ Pharoah "Vires decusque."

01-07-2003, 12:33 AM	#89
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	To clarify: Atheism is a belief system based on a set of ideas. OR, an ideology. What it isn't, is a religion. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

01-07-2003, 01:02 AM	#90
Firekitten2006 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: the US of A! But I wish i was in austraila, never been, just think it would be a fun place to live :) Posts: 372	Wow this has taken a turn for the ugly. Well maybe I should defend that ^^ I dont really like seeing people argue about eachothers religions. :P It really gets us nowhere. I like learning about other religions. I dont really have a religion right now. As far as believing Eru as a God....I agree with (dunno who it was) when they said he is a fictional character...cant bring myself to believe that he ever really existed/will exist/exists. __________________ I'm Baaaack!!

01-07-2003, 01:08 AM	#91
*RÃan* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	I would say that by some definitions of the word "religion" that are in the dictionary, atheism could be considered a religion, but I won't bother to "pick that nit" any further with you, BoP, since I already know we disagree , and it's not a big deal for me anyway. My main concern is that athiesm should NOT be portrayed as a "neutral" position as opposed to religious beliefs, because athiesm is in itself a belief, just like religious beliefs. I would say that we would probably both agree that atheism is not an organized religion, though, which is what many people think of when they think of "religion". BTW, BoP, re our discussion a month or so ago on this subject, you were saying (IIRC) that all religions had some sort of God in them. From what I can tell, however, Buddhism (which I think you would consider a religion) is an "athiestic religion" - there is no God (people knowing more than I do please feel free to correct me!!) __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ã‘Ã¡ Ã«?* Ã³Ãº Ã©Ã¤ Ã¯Ã¶Ã¼ Ã–Ã± Ã‰ Ãž Ã° ÃŸ Â® Ã§ Ã¥ â„¢ Ã¦ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lÃ³mÃ«! AurÃ« entuluva!

01-07-2003, 01:15 AM	#92
*RÃan* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	I just saw your post, Firekitten (I was typing while you posted) - I thought we were still in the realm of polite discussion (which is interesting and informative), not ugly argument (except for the straw men remark ) but maybe it's getting too serious ... shall we "lighten up", zavon? (since you started the thread) And can anyone "learn" me about that aspect of Buddhism?(speaking of learning about other religions ) __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ã‘Ã¡ Ã«?* Ã³Ãº Ã©Ã¤ Ã¯Ã¶Ã¼ Ã–Ã± Ã‰ Ãž Ã° ÃŸ Â® Ã§ Ã¥ â„¢ Ã¦ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lÃ³mÃ«! AurÃ« entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 01-07-2003 at 01:17 AM.

01-07-2003, 01:21 AM	#94
*RÃan* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	Thanks for checking that, EG - rather different than most religions, isn't it? __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ã‘Ã¡ Ã«?* Ã³Ãº Ã©Ã¤ Ã¯Ã¶Ã¼ Ã–Ã± Ã‰ Ãž Ã° ÃŸ Â® Ã§ Ã¥ â„¢ Ã¦ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lÃ³mÃ«! AurÃ« entuluva!

01-07-2003, 01:24 AM	#95
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Yes, quite different. Anything else you'd like to know? I'll gladly look it up for you __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

01-07-2003, 01:52 AM	#96
*RÃan* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	Yes - how can I make all my massively-stacked-up-from-being-gone-to-visit-family-at-Christmas-paperwork go away - without having bill collectors come to visit sigh never mind, I think the only answer to that is to just dive in and do it.... __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ã‘Ã¡ Ã«?* Ã³Ãº Ã©Ã¤ Ã¯Ã¶Ã¼ Ã–Ã± Ã‰ Ãž Ã° ÃŸ Â® Ã§ Ã¥ â„¢ Ã¦ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lÃ³mÃ«! AurÃ« entuluva!

01-07-2003, 02:12 AM	#97
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Actually, I would consider buddhism to be more of a philosophy, than a religion. I've always envied my boyfriend, because he was brought up to be buddhist. He even lived with his parents in nepal for a while, and made friends with some buddhist monks. Lucky bastard. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 01-07-2003 at 02:16 AM.

01-07-2003, 02:14 AM	#98
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	A very organized philosophy? Yes, I think you're right, BoP. Yes, Rian, I think that's the best way to go about it Though it sometimes helps to remember to do just one thing at a time and eventually it all gets done __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

01-07-2003, 09:27 AM	#99
Finmandos12 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tampa Posts: 327	There are some things I like about Buddhism: living moderately, the eightfold path, etc. However, from a rational standpoint, I have one big problem with it: the Noble Truth that says that all suffering comes from selfish desire. There's many bad things that cause suffering besides selfish desire (hate, anger). It just doesn't seem right to me that all bad things happen because of selfishness __________________ The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.