Men of the Silmarillion - Page 5

Arien the Maia · 01-24-2003, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Well, that's because he's a complex character!

I agree!

Arien the Maia · 05-22-2003, 05:24 PM

I decided to get this thread going again....what do you think it would have been like to have been married to Eol? I was just thinking that when I was reading the Sil.

Linaewen · 05-29-2003, 08:43 AM

Uh, is Legolas a man of the Silmarillion? J/k! No, I'm not doing that Legolas thing again.

I'd have to say.....Beren...whoa!

Ruinel · 05-29-2003, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
I decided to get this thread going again....what do you think it would have been like to have been married to Eol? I was just thinking that when I was reading the Sil.

*thinking* I think it would have been like having a very large weight tied to your ankle, your hands bound behind your back, and then you are thrown into a very deep lake. *begins to gasp because she can't breath*

Arien the Maia · 05-29-2003, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruinel
*thinking* I think it would have been like having a very large weight tied to your ankle, your hands bound behind your back, and then you are thrown into a very deep lake. *begins to gasp because she can't breath*

yes I was getting that impression too!

He seems like one of thoses Elves who has to have his meal on the table , and the laundry done when he comes home from his hard day of making weapons!

Artanis · 05-29-2003, 12:17 PM

IMO, Eöl's problem was that he didn't love Aredhel. I think he only desired her, and wanted to possess her.

But even if he had married his 'true love', I think he may have been difficult to live with. Always in the dark, shunning daylight.

Arien the Maia · 05-29-2003, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
IMO, Eöl's problem was that he didn't love Aredhel. I think he only desired her, and wanted to possess her.

But even if he had married his 'true love', I think he may have been difficult to live with. Always in the dark, shunning daylight.

Was that natural for an Elf to lust?

Artanis · 05-29-2003, 12:55 PM

I think it was natural for the Elves' bodies to feel lust, in the same way as hunger, thirst, weariness and so on. But compared to Men they had much more control over these feelings through their spirits.

Also I'm not sure it was lust, or lust only that made Eöl take Aredhel to his home. He thought her fair, so maybe he just wanted to possess her as a valuable gem at his hand. Or he may have known or guessed who she was, and thought it a sweet revenge to 'steal' the sister of a mighty Noldorin king. As we know, he had little love for the Noldor.

Arien the Maia · 05-29-2003, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis

Also I'm not sure it was lust, or lust only that made Eöl take Aredhel to his home. He thought her fair, so maybe he just wanted to possess her as a valuable gem at his hand. Or he may have known or guessed who she was, and thought it a sweet revenge to 'steal' the sister of a mighty Noldorin king. As we know, he had little love for the Noldor.

yes that's true...how horrible for poor Aredhel

Gwaimir Windgem · 05-29-2003, 03:38 PM

I've heard some people say that he raped Aredhel, but the way I remembered it, he seduced her. Which is right?

Arien the Maia · 05-29-2003, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
I've heard some people say that he raped Aredhel, but the way I remembered it, he seduced her. Which is right?

I remeber reading somewhere, that if someone took an elf by force then that elf's fea could leave the hroa because it was being violated...or something like that....I think in the published Sil, that Aredhel was lost and Eol just seduced her...the deceiver!

Artanis · 05-29-2003, 04:12 PM

In the published Sil, Eöl used 'magic' to lead Aredhel to his house, but after that she stayed, at least partly willing.

Quote:

And it came to pass that he saw Aredhel Ar-Feiniel as she strayed among the tall trees near the borders of Nan Elmoth, a gleam of white in the dim land. Very fair she seemed to him, and he desired her; and he set his enchantments about her so that she could not find the ways out, but drew ever nearer to his dwelling in the depths of the wood. There were his smithy, and his dim halls, and such servants as he had, silent and secret as their master. And when Aredhel, weary with wandering, came at last to his doors, he revealed himself; and he welcomed her, and led her into his house. And there she remained; for Eöl took her to wife, and it was long ere any of her kin heard of her again.

It is not said that Aredhel was wholly unwilling, nor that her life in Nan Elmoth was hateful to her for many years. For though at Eöl's command she must shun the sunlight, they wandered far together under the stars or by the light of the sickle moon; or she might fare alone as she would, save that Eöl forbade her to seek the sons of Fëanor, or any others of the Noldor. And Aredhel bore to Eöl a son in the shadows of Nan Elmoth, ....

I think the rape part is in Morgoth's Ring, "Laws and customs among the Eldar", but I'm not sure of it.

Arien the Maia · 05-29-2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
In the published Sil, Eöl used 'magic' to lead Aredhel to his house, but after that she stayed, at least partly willing.

I think the rape part is in Morgoth's Ring, "Laws and customs among the Eldar", but I'm not sure of it.

did Tolkien ever write about an elf raping another elf?

Artanis · 05-29-2003, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
did Tolkien ever write about an elf raping another elf?

Oh no! I think that would be very 'un-Tolkienish'. OK, let's see if I can find the quote you were talking about..... All right, there it is, from Morgoth's Ring, Laws and customs among the Eldar:

Quote:

The Eldar wedded once only in life, and for love or at the leastby free will upon either part. Even when in after days, as the histories reveal, many of the Eldar in Middle-earth became corrupted, and their hearts darkened by the shadow that lies upon Arda, seldom is any tale told of deeds of lust among them. (5)

And the corresponding note:

Quote:

... But among all these evils there is no record of any among the Elves that took another's spouse by force; for this was wholly against their nature, and one so forced would have rejected bodily life and passed to Mandos.

Arien the Maia · 05-29-2003, 08:04 PM

ahhh...I see...so they could reject bodily life if they were being forced to do something they didn't want to do

Artanis · 05-30-2003, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Linaewen
Uh, is Legolas a man of the Silmarillion? J/k! No, I'm not doing that Legolas thing again.

Legolas Greenleaf was an Elf in Gondolin.

Inderjit Sanghera · 06-01-2003, 11:36 AM

Just a statement to any confused by Artanis's statement: Legolas of FoG and the Fellowship aren't the same person. Well it is 99.9999999999999999 per cent certain they weren't.

Ruinel · 06-01-2003, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Inderjit Sanghera
Just a statement to any confused by Artanis's statement: Legolas of FoG and the Fellowship aren't the same person. Well it is 99.9999999999999999 per cent certain they weren't.

I think Inderjit is right. These 2 Legolases... Legolasae... Legolasi? Anyway... they are not the same Elf.

I will need to check the first post, but I thought this thread was about Men, not Elves.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 06-01-2003, 03:47 PM

Quote:

I thought this thread was about Men, not Elves.

I should have titled it "Males of the Silmarillion." That's what it is suppose to be about.

Ruinel · 06-01-2003, 03:49 PM

Ah, yes. I just read it. And of course, you started out exclaiming your love for Finrod (my boyfriend/fiance). But all is forgiven, SGH. And I gave you the FF that posts on the Moot as a consolation prize.

Does that remind you of the good old times? LOL!

05-29-2003, 12:17 PM	#86
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	IMO, Eöl's problem was that he didn't love Aredhel. I think he only desired her, and wanted to possess her. But even if he had married his 'true love', I think he may have been difficult to live with. Always in the dark, shunning daylight. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

05-29-2003, 12:55 PM	#88
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	I think it was natural for the Elves' bodies to feel lust, in the same way as hunger, thirst, weariness and so on. But compared to Men they had much more control over these feelings through their spirits. Also I'm not sure it was lust, or lust only that made Eöl take Aredhel to his home. He thought her fair, so maybe he just wanted to possess her as a valuable gem at his hand. Or he may have known or guessed who she was, and thought it a sweet revenge to 'steal' the sister of a mighty Noldorin king. As we know, he had little love for the Noldor. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

05-29-2003, 03:38 PM	#90
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	I've heard some people say that he raped Aredhel, but the way I remembered it, he seduced her. Which is right? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

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05-22-2003, 05:24 PM	#82
Arien the Maia Fëanáro's Fire Mistress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indiana, USA Posts: 1,423	I decided to get this thread going again....what do you think it would have been like to have been married to Eol? I was just thinking that when I was reading the Sil.

05-29-2003, 08:43 AM	#83
Linaewen Fair Dinkum Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,319	Uh, is Legolas a man of the Silmarillion? J/k! No, I'm not doing that Legolas thing again. I'd have to say.....Beren...whoa!

05-29-2003, 08:04 PM	#95
Arien the Maia Fëanáro's Fire Mistress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indiana, USA Posts: 1,423	ahhh...I see...so they could reject bodily life if they were being forced to do something they didn't want to do

06-01-2003, 11:36 AM	#97
Inderjit Sanghera Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England. Posts: 260	Just a statement to any confused by Artanis's statement: Legolas of FoG and the Fellowship aren't the same person. Well it is 99.9999999999999999 per cent certain they weren't.

06-01-2003, 03:49 PM	#100
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	Ah, yes. I just read it. And of course, you started out exclaiming your love for Finrod (my boyfriend/fiance). But all is forgiven, SGH. And I gave you the FF that posts on the Moot as a consolation prize. Does that remind you of the good old times? LOL!