Why did the Nazgûl drop Merry in Bree?

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

In the final version, there are about 100 houses of the Big Folk in Bree, and about as many Little Folk. That makes the population around 1200–2000, I expect.

Yes, and in all the drafts published in HOME, there used to be but 50 stone houses. I think Tolkien added extra 50 houses in the final version of the text, and Fonstad (who had the same Tolkien sketch I have posted), extended Bree to the south to accommodate the extra houses.

Originally Posted by Alcuin

Yes, I think we must use Tolkien’s sketch-map: it fits the rough time-line – and the published text! – much better.

OK.

Originally Posted by Alcuin

Ferny and his visitor from Isengard now reach Ferny’s house before Merry and the Black Rider. This suggests that Ferny and the Isengarder pass the Black Rider when they leave the Inn. The Black Rider stays there, and Merry returns to find him still standing across the Road from the Inn. Somehow, that doesn’t feel quite right to me: was there a second Black Rider outside, too, that walked home with them? They passed the Nazgûl, and he didn’t join them? They didn’t see him? I’m not certain we have assessed the order of events correctly here

The road near the Pony was not completely deserted. Pony was a busy place full of people. Merry, for instance, was staying outside, some customers may be getting out to ahh... gaze at stars after a mug of beer. The nazgul didn't want to approach his spies immediately in the lighted space below Pony's windows, but followed quietly after them in 1-2 minutes. It is standard spy technique.
And note: Olmer has proved that Merry was standing by the side entrance (he had to go round the corner to follow the nazgul). So Merry couldn't see Ferny and Isengarder exiting.

Originally Posted by Alcuin

I can’t help but notice that, had the Commons room emptied any faster, lots of Bree-folk would have found this weird, scary guy standing across the road from their favorite watering-hole.

Do you think it is easy to see a nazgul in the night shadows? After all, he could simply take off his cloak and be truly and completely invisible. But why go to such lengths? Merry saw the nazgul only because the nazgul moved and movement attracts attention. Were he immobile, he would be undetectable, barring the vague feeling of dread. I guess in this case the nazgul wished to be seen by Merry.

What do you think is wrong in my timeline for 9.45-10.00 that I have posted before, Alcuin?

Originally Posted by Gordis

9.45 Merry returns from stroll, gazes at stars. Frodo has “accident.” The Nazgul (H) is immobile in the shadows, watching the Common room windows from across the street.
9.47 Ferny+Isengarder quietly exit, turn south, Merry pays them no heed - he is still by the door.
9.49 The Nazgul (H) stirs and starts to follow after Ferny+Isengarder; he moves past Merry. (He had been opposite the windows of the common room, thus to the north from Merry and has to go south). His movement is observed by Merry and the Nazgul notices his awareness. The Nazgul lures Merry to follow, thinking to learn something useful from questioning the hobbit, if the Isengarder's report proves uninteresting. So they go south: Ferny and Isengarder are ahead, then the Nazgul, then Merry who has lost the sight of those ahead and falls behind.

Originally Posted by Alcuin's_Timeline_v5

10.15 One Black Rider leaves to tell Witch-King Ringbearer is in Bree, other 2 decide to take Merry.

Alcuin, I don't believe there was more than one nazgul in Bree at this point (H). I think the others (FI) were outside with the horses. Nazgul H had to go outside to send the messenger, and do so fast. So he left right after Merry swooned.

I think it were the Isengarder and Ferny who were lifting Merry when Nob came. I don't see the nazgul doing the dirty job himself when he was in a hurry and there were two mortal ruffians to order about. It is just second nature for a being used to command others. The ruffians got the order to pick Merry, while the nazgul was gone, but got scared by Nob and dropped him. Unlike the nazgul, Ferny couldn't afford to be accused of murder: he hoped to continue living in Bree after this night's work.

About the horses. The quote you have posted, Alcuin:

Strider: The Black Breath. The Riders must have left their horses outside, and passed back through the South-gate in secret.

proves that all the three nazgul horses were outside of Bree this evening, none was keeping company to Bill the Pony after all. I don't believe the nazgul would leave them outside unguarded even for a short while - the horses were too valuable to take such risk. So I believe while the inn was being assaulted by H and I, the horses were in Bree. Another reason: if the nazgul did take the Ring, hasty departure was in order.

When nazgul F left for Andrath, H and I must have planned the night attack between themselves, then H returned on foot to Ferny's and gave orders to the assembled ruffians, then at the appointed time HI most likely rode around Bree and made Harry open the West gate for them to bring the horses inside. While the Inn was under attack, the Gate likely stood open.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Alcuin, I don't believe there was more than one nazgul in Bree at this point (H). I think the others (FI) were outside with the horses. Nazgul H had to go outside to send the messenger, and do so fast. So he left right after Merry swooned.

I think it were the Isengarder and Ferny who were lifting Merry when Nob came. I don't see the nazgul doing the dirty job himself when he was in a hurry and there were two mortal ruffians to order about. It is just second nature for a being used to command others. The ruffians got the order to pick Merry, while the nazgul was gone, but got scared by Nob and dropped him. Unlike the nazgul, Ferny couldn't afford to be accused of murder: he hoped to continue living in Bree after this night's work.

So where were Ferny and the Isengarder exactly when Merry swooned? At Ferny's place? Did the Nazgul stop by to see them on his way outside to send the messenger and commanded them to go back and clean up the mess he left in the road?

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

So where were Ferny and the Isengarder exactly when Merry swooned? At Ferny's place? Did the Nazgul stop by to see them on his way outside to send the messenger and commanded them to go back and clean up the mess he left in the road?

I think Ferny and the Isengarder returning from the Pony just reached the hedge of Ferny's house when the nazgul who was following them finally caught up with the pair. They stopped by the hedge.

Merry: Anyway, I went, and suddenly I heard voices by the hedge. One was muttering; and the other was whispering, or hissing. I couldn't hear a word that was said. I did not creep any closer, because I began to tremble all over. Then I felt terrified, and I turned back, and was just going to bolt home, when something came behind me and I... I fell over.'

We are not told that the interlocutors stood on the opposite sides of the hedge. I believe all three were still on the road. Merry was unable to see them, he was unable to count them, he only heard two voices: the Isengarder's and the nazgul's.

The nazgul became aware of Merry and sent him in a swoon with Black Breath spell. Merry fell.

The Isengarder continued his report, the nazgul became excited and went away in a hurry to find his buddies camping outside the South Gate. Before leaving, he gave the ruffians an order re: Merry. Maybe he told them to kill Merry, maybe he told them to bring him inside the house, but likely he said something ambiguous like "clean up the mess and wait for me". At the moment Merry interested him not at all.

With the nazgul away, Ferny and Isengarder probably argued what to do with Merry. Ferny's reputation was bad, so for him it was dangerous to kill a hobbit right on his own doorstep. It was dangerous also to keep Merry prisoner in his house, for the first house to be searched likely would be his. The Isengarder may have been of the opposite opinion - he was a stranger in Bree. At this time they likely examined the hobbit and found he was one from the Shire group. Anyway, all this took some time, so when they finally decided to carry Merry somewhere, Nob was already there. The ruffians bolted.

[Coffeehouse]

So what new knowledge has this very detailed discussion of place and time given us? (I would have contributed more were it not for my tight weekend=/)

You're ping-theory about the ring and the Nazgûl was very interesting to read Alcuin. Good job

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse

So what new knowledge has this very detailed discussion of place and time given us?

That’s a very good question, and I’ll answer it first. I have a detailed response to Gordis already written.

I learned these things:

1. The Nazgûl dropped Merry because keeping him meant that Nob would raise an alarm and rouse the town of Bree. In the confusion, the Ringbearer might escape yet again. To me, that’s a big deal, because it was a loose end I could not place: this is why I began the thread.
   
2. Frodo twice felt that there was another will trying to induce him to put on the Ring. That will almost certainly came from the Nazgûl standing across the Road from the Inn, the one whom Merry followed back to Ferny’s house. I have never seen that suggested anywhere else: not on a board, not in a book. I think that’s a big deal.
   
3. The Dread Pirate Roberts has discovered that Tolkien used British Summer Time (daylight savings time) for his times the following morning. As far as I know, that has never before been discovered. I think he is correct, and I think Gordis (who can speak for herself on this) thinks so, too. For scholars, that’s actually a very big deal.
   
4. CAB and Olmer argued that Bree is too big in the map Karen Fonstad made. Fonstad (rest her soul) did great work on Tolkien’s maps, but Gordis located what appears to be the working sketch, and it suggests that it was no farther to the West gate than to the South gate (and Ferny’s house). Those distances make all the difference in sketching out the time, and I think I now know that Fonstad’s map is inaccurate.
5. I also learned (thanks to Olmer) there is almost certainly a side door to the Prancing Pony, and without mentioning that there was a side door, Tolkien used it in the published text.

In addition, there are three other things that have emerged:

1. I knew but am reminded that there were three Nazgûl at Bree when the evening began, and that the third, the messenger sent to the Witch-king at Andrath, was waylaid sometime in the night by the Dúnedain, who were unquestionably assigned the difficult and dangerous task of guarding the Greenway by Aragorn. This means that the Dúnedain of the North were still a force to be reckoned with in their own territory; that despite their confrontation with all the Nazgûl at Sarn Ford several days before, they had not lost heart; that Aragorn was very much in charge of the Rangers (as befits a king or chieftain); and that he was an experienced commander in his own right, having set or ordered an ambuscade in just the right place to upset the plans of his enemies.
   
2. I always believed the Nazgûl had beaten the hobbits to Bree. That was my bias, but “The Hunt for the Ring” MSS confirms it. I don’t think everyone knew that going into the conversation.
   
3. Finally, Attalus and The Dread Pirate Roberts are interested in the events that follow into the morning: when the Nazgûl actually attacked, and then the departure of Strider and the hobbits from Bree. I hope they will follow up on these things.

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Olmer has proved that Merry was standing by the side entrance (he had to go round the corner to follow the nazgul). So Merry couldn't see Ferny and Isengarder exiting.

“Proved” is such a strong word; “demonstrated”, certainly. I agree: I certainly think he is correct. And that probably means Tolkien sketched a floorplan for the Prancing Pony, likely very similar to the one that Fonstad shows on her page of maps for Bree.

Originally Posted by Gordis

What do you think is wrong in my timeline for 9.45-10.00 that I have posted before, Alcuin?

I don’t see anything wrong with it. It fits into the current rough time-line like a hand in a custom glove.

Originally Posted by Gordis

Alcuin, I don't believe there was more than one nazgul in Bree at this point (H). I think the others (FI) were outside with the horses. Nazgul H had to go outside to send the messenger, and do so fast. So he left right after Merry swooned.

I would agree with you except for the clear statement of the “Hunt for the Ring” MSS. But whether there were two or three in town or out doesn’t matter, I think: the messenger left immediately, that much is clear, leaving two Nazgûl in Bree to seize Merry, and they failed to do that. That’s the text we have to use for the off-stage movements and actions of the Nazgûl.

Originally Posted by Gordis

I think it were the Isengarder and Ferny who were lifting Merry when Nob came. I don't see the nazgul doing the dirty job himself when he was in a hurry and there were two mortal ruffians to order about. It is just second nature for a being used to command others. The ruffians got the order to pick Merry, while the nazgul was gone, but got scared by Nob and dropped him. Unlike the nazgul, Ferny couldn't afford to be accused of murder: he hoped to continue living in Bree after this night's work.

I don’t have a problem with that. I agree that the two Nazgûl probably saw it beneath them to haul bodies if there were others around whom they could command to do their bidding. It isn’t what the text says in “The Hunt for the Ring” MSS. Whatever we do has to match the published texts, The Fellowship of the Ring and as much of “The Hunt for the Ring” MSS as we can discern; otherwise, this is just an exercise in fanfic.

It isn’t important until we get to the raid on the Inn. That, I believe, cannot be assigned to “servants of the Ringwraiths,” as some have done. It appears to me clearly contrary both to the published text and to the author’s intentions.

But as for whether it was the Nazgûl lifting Merry, or one Nazgûl and Ferny (or the Isengarder), or Ferny and the Isengarder under the direction of the two remaining Nazgûl as “The Hunt for the Ring” MSS might be interpreted (with a stretch), I don’t care. Two Nazgûl were responsible for the decision to take him, and together they were responsible for the decision to leave him.

Originally Posted by Gordis

nazgul ... made Harry open the West gate for them to bring the horses inside. While the Inn was under attack, the Gate likely stood open.

The Nazgûl almost certainly kept their horses near the South Gate, near Ferny’s house. It was less likely anyone would see the horses or the Nazgûl, and it was much closer to the place their spies were located. The Dwarves in the Inn were headed west, and the Greenway was at the West gate: the South-gate was likely to have less traffic on it that night. Moreover, the Ringbearer was headed east, to Rivendell. There is no reason for the Ringwraiths to keep their horses at the West Gate. Besides, Ferny’s house was the last next to the gate, which implies that Ferny had some regular means to pass in and out quietly.

Whether the West gate stood open or not during the attack on the Inn, I don’t know, but I wouldn’t doubt it.

Originally Posted by Gordis

We are not told that the interlocutors stood on the opposite sides of the hedge.

Fair enough. Merry told his friends that he “heard voices by the hedge”. I’m ok with that either way, but I suppose it makes sense that they were standing in the Road beside the hedge. On the other hand, if he sneaked up on Ferny or the Isengarder talking to a Nazgûl, then it also makes sense that the Black Breath came from a second Nazgûl who caught him eavesdropping. It makes no difference in the rough time-line.

[Alcuin]

Once again,

The Dread Pirate Roberts has discovered that Tolkien appears to be using British Summer Time (Daylight Savings Time) for his time for sunrise the following morning. Are we using standard time, which the sun at its zenith at noon, or daylight savings time, as Tolkien appears to have, with the sun at its zenith at 1 o’clock?

If I leave the rough time-line as is, on standard time, the hobbits arrive in Bree around 7 PM and Strider barricades the parlor around 11 PM. If I use British Summer Time (Daylight Savings Time) to match the times published in The Fellowship of the Ring, everything gets pushed back one hour.

What is the consensus of the Entmoot on this?

[Valandil]

I don't know - so I'm very neutral.

But since you're at it, you ought to adjust the date for correct sunset, etc. September 29 & 30 on the Shire Calendar (as recorded) would be more like September 20 & 21 - or September 21 & 22, on our modern calendar.

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by Valandil

I don't know - so I'm very neutral.

But since you're at it, you ought to adjust the date for correct sunset, etc. September 29 & 30 on the Shire Calendar (as recorded) would be more like September 20 & 21 - or September 21 & 22, on our modern calendar.

Okay. Good point. Thank you. If you don’t mind, what method did you use to determine the difference in dates?

What about British Summer Time / Daylight Savings Time?

[Valandil]

Appendix D - with a little bit more information in HoME 12.

Mid-year's Day comes at the summer solstice. That would make Yule at the winter solstice, and presumably the vernal equinox at either March 30 (last day of March - which has 30 days in this calendar) or April 1 - and the autumnal equinox on either September 30 or October 1. Our autumnal equinox is normally on September 22 - so we should subtract about 8 or 9 days, I think. Or - you could work it from the Yule or Mid-Year, to make sure of which it is. I think I've done the exercise, but don't exactly remember the results.

As for the 'British Summer Time / Daylight Savings Time - I doubt it would be used in Third Age Middle Earth, since those were much more modern inventions. Although it's possible that JRRT would have taken note of the time of sunrise and forgotten to make the one hour adjustment.

[Gordis]

I firmly believe that our only consideration must be the conformity of different possibilities we have with the published LOTR text.

What are our possibilities?

London September 21 without BST
05:11 civil twilight (dawn)
05:44 apparent sunrise

London September 21 with BST :
06:11 civil twilight (dawn)
06:44 apparent sunrise

London September 30 without BST
05:26 civil twilight (dawn)
05:59 apparent sunrise

London September 30 with BST
06:26 civil twilight (dawn)
06:59 apparent sunrise

Our quotes:

'In any case we must be called at dawn,' said Frodo. 'We must get off as early as possible. Breakfast at six-thirty, please.'

Frodo: 'I shan't be doing anything of the sort again, Mr. Butterbur, I promise you. And now I think I'll be getting to bed. We shall be making an early start. Will you see that our ponies are ready by eight o'clock?'

OK, the first quote implies that dawn should be shortly before 06.30.
It fits both London September 21 with BST (06:11) and London September 30 with BST (06:26), but it doesn't fit times without BST.
Second quote implies that sunrise was not too long before 8, most likely at 7.

More quotes:

[First day (Sept 24) on the road:] The morning came, pale and clammy. Frodo woke up first […]‘Wake up, hobbits!’ he cried. It’s a beautiful morning.’
‘What’s beautiful about it?’ said Pippin, peering over the edge of his blanket with one eye. ‘Sam! Gel breakfast ready for half-past nine![…]
Frodo stripped the blankets from Pippin and rolled him over, and then walked off to the edge of the wood. Away eastward the sun was rising red out of the mists that lay thick on the world.[…]
When their breakfast was over, and their packs all trussed up again, it was after ten o’clock, and the day was beginning to turn fine and hot.

Hmm… even if sunrise was at seven, it still took the hobbits 3 hours to finish eating and get going. They still thought it was a pleasure-trip, no doubt. Pity ol' Khamul missed this pleasant breakfast.

[Departure from Crickhollow Sept 26:]
Frodo woke suddenly. It was still dark in the room. Merry was standing there with a candle in one hand, and banging on the door with the other. ‘All right! What is it?’ said Frodo, still shaken and bewildered.
‘What is it!’ cried Merry. ‘It is time to get up. It is half past four and very foggy.
Soon after six o’clock the five hobbits were ready to start. Fatty Bolger was still yawning. […]The leaves of trees were glistening, and every twig was dripping; the grass was grey with cold dew. Everything was still, and far-away noises seemed near and clear: fowls chattering in a yard, someone closing a door of a distant house.[…] soon they were riding off into the mist, which seemed to open reluctantly before them and close forbiddingly behind them. After riding for about an hour, slowly and without talking, they saw the Hedge looming suddenly ahead. It was tall and netted over with silver cobwebs.
[…]Suddenly they came out of the trees and found themselves in a wide circular space. There was sky above them, blue and clear to their surprise, for down under the Forest-roof they had not been able to see the rising morning and the lifting of the mist. The sun was not, however, high enough yet to shine down into the clearing . […]The hobbits felt encouraged, and looked up hopefully at the broadening daylight in the sky.

OK, so, the hobbits got up before dawn at 4:30, and although they were in a hurry it took them 1,5 hours (!) to get ready to start. Lazy-bones! They started at about 6:05 and it seems like it was dawn, but not yet sunrise. The sunrise seemed to occur after they entered the forest an hour later, at 7however the sunrise might have been concealed by mist. Looks like again the times without BST do not agree with the text, as then the sunrise would occur before the hobbits start at 6. It was clearly not the case.

After the Barrow, Sept 29: "It was still fairly early by the sun, something between nine and ten, and the hobbits turned their minds to food."

[Departure from Bree, Sept 30]:
[Frodo] opened his eyes, and heard a cock crowing lustily in the inn-yard. Strider had drawn the curtains and pushed back the shutters with a clang. The first grey light of day was in the room, and a cold air was coming through the open window. As soon as Strider had roused them all, he led the way to their bedrooms. […]Strider immediately went to fetch the landlord. […]
'We will leave at once,' [said Strider.…] Never mind about breakfast: a drink and a bite standing will have to do. We shall be packed in a few minutes […]
In the end there was more than three hours' delay.[…] It was close on ten o'clock before they at last got off.

So, 10-3=7 Strider wished " to leave at once" at 7. The examination of the rooms couldn't have taken more than a few minutes, so likely they got up around 6.30 - at first grey light. Again all points to London September 30 time with BST: 06:26 civil twilight (dawn)

I believe Tolkien had simply consulted the Almanac he had, without any calculations. So his time is London September 30 with BST (dawn:6:26, sunrise:6:59). Neither does it seem that he had recalculated the difference between the Shire calendar and normal one.

Remember, at the time Tolkien was still writing a children's story, a sequel to the Hobbit, with rather remote connection to his Legendarium - he wouldn't bother to calculate times as thoroughly as he would have done by the end of the tale. And later on no exact times are given at all - only "at dawn", "at sunrise", "by midday" etc. After Bree the Hobbits left civilized places similar to XIX century England and firmly entered Middle-Ages.

[Gordis]

No, I was being unfair to Tolkien. When he used the 1941 Almanac, he did take away the extra hour of summer time, he didn't make this silly mistake to unconsciously introduce DST to Middle-Earth. But in 1940-1945 (WWII) Britain had two hours (!) added to GMT. Read
THIS:

During World War II, Britain retained the hour's advance on GMT at the start of the winter of 1940 and continued to advance the clocks by an extra hour during the summers until July 1945. During these summers Britain was thus 2 hours ahead of GMT and operating on British Double Summer Time (BDST). The clocks were reverted to GMT at the end of the summer of 1945. In 1947 the clocks were advanced by one hour twice during the spring and put back twice during the autumn so that Britain was on BDST during the height of the summer.

So Tolkien must have taken away one hour that was added only in summer but he had left another extra hour of BDST - this hour was being applied all year round.

So, ME seems one hour in advance to GMT London time all year round.

I believe it solves the riddle.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Gordis, that is an awesome find.

Great work by everyone here.

Something else I've learned in this thread is that it IS possible to have an in-depth collaborative Tolkien research project on a board without anyone getting self-righteous and smarmy. Entmoot is the only board I've ever seen this measure of success and cooperation on. This has already become my primary Tolkien board; I'm considering making it my only Tolkien board primarily because of the cooperative attitude of the people here.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

Gordis, that is an awesome find.

Great work by everyone here.

Something else I've learned in this thread is that it IS possible to have an in-depth collaborative Tolkien research project on a board without anyone getting self-righteous and smarmy. Entmoot is the only board I've ever seen this measure of success and cooperation on. This has already become my primary Tolkien board; I'm considering making it my only Tolkien board primarily because of the cooperative attitude of the people here.

Yeah, that is a neat find. I never knew the British used double summer time in that period!

The discussions about the Tolkien world here are definitely very civil and very construcive at least from my point of view. I don't know of any other Tolkien board (this is the only internet board I have used, use and will ever use! and that says something about Entmoot worthiness It's very diverse) but surely nothing beats this!

I think what's pretty clear by the numerous interesting facts that have been established on this thread, is that the depth of Tolkien's Middle Earth enthusiasm and genious simply knows no limits. Just when you think there's a bottom there's yet more to discover!

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Found while looking for other information in HoME VI:

There was nothing omitted that they could wish for, so they did
not need to ring the bell. So refreshed and encouraged did they
feel at the end of their supper (about 55 minutes steady going, not
hindered by unnecessary talk) that they decided to join the
company.

It may have already been mentioned but I haven't reviewed the entire thread to check.

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

Found while looking for other information in HoME VI:

It may have already been mentioned but I haven't reviewed the entire thread to check.

That passage became, “about three quarters of an hour’s steady going,” in the published version.

Let us use caution including the draft versions of the tale for more than indications and intentions. If we use them as hard-and-fast guides to the action in the final telling – particularly in the timing or order of events – then we shall surely re-incorporate errors that Tolkien eliminated as he worked through the story. It isn’t that there isn’t useful information in them (such as the sketch-map of Bree), but I strongly believe a statement of time in a draft version should only be retained if it still fits (or adequately explains) the course of events in the published story.

The draft passage does reveal one thing: Tolkien was tracking finer gradations of time than quarter-hours when he wrote the draft! He might have been tracking only quarter-hours at the end, but “about 55 minutes steady going” is an awfully precise “about”.


The Dread Pirate Roberts and Gordis, I doff my hat to you both on the British Summer Time and British Double Summer Time. That such an oddity should arise in the writing is, well, rather odd: Tolkien was aware of the difference in hours from noon and attempted to correct it, but by accident, he only corrected half the error! That is surely worthy of an article in one of the scholarly journals!

I take it that the consensus is that we should move the times posted in the rough time-line forward by one hour, then?

The next obvious question goes beyond Bree. Was there not also an extra hour added to Greenwich Mean Time during the winter months of World War II? (In other words, one extra hour added all year long?) And if there were, did Tolkien accidentally retain that one extra hour during the winter months in all his other times as well? In other words, if he corrected for the two-hour difference in the summer months by moving back only one hour, forgetting the extra hour, did he also forget to remove that extra hour from the winter months as well?

And finally – if the rest of Middle-earth was one hour ahead, was Lórien still on standard time?

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

The Dread Pirate Roberts and Gordis, I doff my hat to you both on the British Summer Time and British Double Summer Time. That such an oddity should arise in the writing is, well, rather odd: Tolkien was aware of the difference in hours from noon and attempted to correct it, but by accident, he only corrected half the error! That is surely worthy of an article in one of the scholarly journals!

Thanks, Alcuin and others as well.
Unfortunately, I would have been surer of my theory if I knew that Tolkien indeed used the Almanack for 1941-42 while writing the Prancing Pony chapter. It seems most of it had been written before it, in 1938-39. However, in the drafts the quotes mentioning exact times seem to be absent. Maybe Tolkien introduced these mentions later, while preparing the chapter for publication.

I take it that the consensus is that we should move the times posted in the rough time-line forward by one hour, then?

I vote for it.

The next obvious question goes beyond Bree. Was there not also an extra hour added to Greenwich Mean Time during the winter months of World War II? (In other words, one extra hour added all year long?)

Yes, it was so - one hour was added all year long, see my quote from Wiki. No doubt, as the extra hour was there for 6 years winter and summer alike, everyone got used to it and forgot about its existence. Only the extra hour that is added every spring feels like a sore thumb to everyone. This one is hard to forget. For these six years London sort of moved into the next time-zone.

And if there were, did Tolkien accidentally retain that one extra hour during the winter months in all his other times as well? In other words, if he corrected for the two-hour difference in the summer months by moving back only one hour, forgetting the extra hour, did he also forget to remove that extra hour from the winter months as well?

I think so.

And finally – if the rest of Middle-earth was one hour ahead, was Lórien still on standard time?

Lorien was on VST = "Valinor standard time"

[Alcuin]

I just lined up Tolkien’s Shire Reckoning with the calendars for 1941 and 2009. It isn’t elegant: just brute force.

“29 September” is “29 Halimath” in Shire Reckoning. That day in the year, that far from Solstice, corresponds to 20 September 1941, or 19 September 2009. Autumnal Equinox would fall two days later, on 2 Winterfilth (autumnal equinox in London was on September 23, 1941 at 11:33 AM and will be Tuesday, September 22, 2009 at 10:19 PM), which would correspond to October 2 in the story. Tolkien takes no note of the first day of autumn in the published text.

The times for sunset and twilight for 19 September 2009 will be

18:07 - Sunset
18:40 - Civil Twilight End
19:20 - Nautical Twilight End
20:02 - Astronomical Twilight End

I cannot find the twilight times for 20 September 1941. If I use the same lengths of time in minutes as for 2009, however, and the time for sunset in 1941, and allowing for Tolkien’s extra hour, I get

19:04 - Sunset
19:37 - Civil Twilight End
20:17 - Nautical Twilight End
20:59 - Astronomical Twilight End

Here is the latest version of the rough time-line based on 20 September 1941 and retaining the extra hour that Tolkien forgot during wartime:

The only extra interesting thing about this version of the time-line is that Merry’s near-miss with the Nazgûl, and his bursting into the parlor, now take place right around midnight.

[Alcuin]

Already found an error. Took my solstice for 1941 from another source; the source The Dread Pirate Roberts located says “June Solstice is on Saturday, June 21, 1941 at 9:33 PM in London.”

Realigned calendars, moved everything back one day to match 19 September 1941. Sunset is 7:07 PM local time, including Tolkien’s extra wartime hour. Move all times forward 3 minutes. (Not a good way to estimate dusk, but it’s a “rough” time-line – very rough, it seems.) Civil twilight now ends around 7:40 PM. Moved all the times forward 15 minutes: Merry now has his little encounter with the Nazgûl at Bill Ferny’s house about midnight, and comes bolting home sometime afterwards.

Somehow, I find that appropriate. However, since it is supposed to be midnight, I wonder why Tolkien didn’t mention that it was around midnight – he frequently takes note of such things.

Another thing to consider is the reflections of CAB and Attalus on people’s sleeping habits: would all this uproar have kept the local townsfolk awake? And might Nob’s yelling have taken place around that time that the townsfolk might have been stirring in the middle of the night anyway, making it all that more imperative that whomever was lifting Merry drop him and slip away?

Here is the corrected, latest version of the rough time-line:

OK – what I left out or failed to correct? Are there any more errors or omissions?

[Gordis]

Seems fine to me. Great job, Alcuin. I will read it more attentively in the evening, I have to run now. - Gordis