Saddest Moment In Tolkien

[inked]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

For me it is definitely when Frodo is finally back home in Bag End, and he realises that he can never go back to his life before the ring came to him. Oh, and the fact that Gollum never gets redeemed.

BoP, somehow it escaped my notice that you think the failure of redemption for Gollum equals the sadness of Frodo's loss. It need not have been so for Gollum. And I have argued elsewhere that when Gandalf asks for three eagles to go look for Sam and Frodo, he was hoping for Gollum's redemption as well. I speak here of the text not the movie, OC. That was a moment of high hope and devastation, IMHO.

[Ezora]

I think the saddest moment is when Frodo tells Sam to go home when they are climbing the stairs near minus morgul, i almost cried!!! my second is when Borimier (i dont know how to spell his name...) died, i dont really like him in the movie, but it was still sad!!!

[Pytt]

yes, Frodo telling Sam to go is one of the saddest moments in the films. One of the things PJ did which I don't think is so bad. it creates a excitement in the movie. a nice move I think.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally Posted by Pytt

yes, Frodo telling Sam to go is one of the saddest moments in the films. One of the things PJ did which I don't think is so bad. it creates a excitement in the movie. a nice move I think.

I hated it. I didn't find it very... real, because I didn't think Frodo from the books would never do that to Sam, and because what's going to happen next was clear - Sam comes back, saves Frodo. I think Frodo looks kind of bad here, doesn't trust his friend and believes Gollum.

[Lefty Scaevola]

There may be other subtext there to the movie Frodo, he may have been more willing to sacrifice gollum than sam, which would be consistant with sending sam back. Recall that Frodo tried to leave sam behind at the Parth galen when he decided to go the Mordor alone.

[Elemmírë]

I think I'm going to have to change my original choice...

Finrod's death is still sad (obviously, since it depresses me at times, ) but I don't think it's even nearly as tragically awful as Beleg's...

[Beregond]

I think it would be either when boromir dies or when all of the fellowship have to go their own ways at the end

[Lenya]

Originally Posted by Minielin

Not wholly sad, but at least a little tug on the heartstrings: when Finduilas falls out of love with Gwindor and in love with Turin. I still stick with Beleg's death being absolutely the saddest.

I forgot about that. That really is sad, in a different way. Can you imagine how Gwindor felt, after all his been through?

[Lenya]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

I think I'm going to have to change my original choice...

Finrod's death is still sad (obviously, since it depresses me at times, ) but I don't think it's even nearly as tragically awful as Beleg's...

I have to say this :
Does this mean you have finally realised that Beleg is beter than Finrod?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally Posted by Lenya

I have to say this :
Does this mean you have finally realised that Beleg is beter than Finrod?

Hey, watch your tongue.

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Lenya

I have to say this :
Does this mean you have finally realised that Beleg is beter than Finrod?

What SGH said.

No, it doesn't. I cannot comprehend the mindset which would make that irrational idea logical, but...

Finrod died to save a friend.

Beleg... was killed by a friend.

The sheer pointless waste of it makes it sadder. As in, I can see a light of hope in Finrod's (and combine that with the realisation that he was quickly released from Mandos), but not in Beleg's.

[edited] words keep on getting edited out of my posts! I'll put them in French since it won't work in English anyway: morte et hait. !!!

It might just be this stupid computer, though!

[Pytt]

Originally Posted by Radagast The Brown

I hated it. I didn't find it very... real, because I didn't think Frodo from the books would never do that to Sam, and because what's going to happen next was clear - Sam comes back, saves Frodo. I think Frodo looks kind of bad here, doesn't trust his friend and believes Gollum.

No, I see your point. First I was a bit angry about it myself, but after seen it some times, it isn't that bad. THough myself I am split about it. the moviepart of me thinks it is a nice move, but the tolkien part thinks it is rather stupid. but it is a sad moment, neverthless.

Your back for real Elemmire?

[ethuiliel]

I think I have to agree with those of you who say Beleg's death was the saddest. I had forgotten about Beleg, since it's been a while since I read Sil, but that was the saddest moment when I read it, much sadder than anything in the other books. To die at the hands of a friend! Or to unintentionally kill a friend! Either side of the situation is about as sad as it can get.

[Pytt]

Yeah, Beleg I too have forgotten. But I don't remember it as sad as when Sam thinks Frodo is dead, and leave him after Shelob(the books) I cried when they read that to me. But from the Sil, it have to be Beleg. but when I think about it, a lot of the things in that book are sad.

[ethuiliel]

Originally Posted by Pytt

But I don't remember it as sad as when Sam thinks Frodo is dead, and leave him after Shelob(the books) I cried when they read that to me.

That part would probably have been the saddest for me too, except that I already knew Frodo would survive.

[Lenya]

So glad you agree about Beleg's death, It's just tragic and so dramatic. Especially if he was your favourite character and he died.

[Kellquenti]

As an avid Feanorian lover, The saddest moment for me was when Maedhros and Maglor finally fulfill their cursed oath and get two of the Silmarills back, only to find that all the fighting, kinslaying and the deaths of their father and brothers has been in vain ,that they cannot hold, let alone take the Silmarills back with them as they promised. Then Wracked with guilt and torment the once strong, eldest Maedhros kills himself, and the gentle Maglor wanders the shores alone in grief forever. Neither wanted anything to do with the oath in the first place .Loyalty to their father forced them into it.

[Lenya]

Originally Posted by Kellquenti

As an avid Feanorian lover, The saddest moment for me was when Maedhros and Maglor finally fulfill their cursed oath and get two of the Silmarills back, only to find that all the fighting, kinslaying and the deaths of their father and brothers has been in vain ,that they cannot hold, let alone take the Silmarills back with them as they promised. Then Wracked with guilt and torment the once strong, eldest Maedhros kills himself, and the gentle Maglor wanders the shores alone in grief forever. Neither wanted anything to do with the oath in the first place .Loyalty to their father forced them into it.

No way. They asked for it when they swore that oath.

[Kellquenti]

Originally Posted by Lenya

No way. They asked for it when they swore that oath.

I understand what you're sayng, but I don't think they had much of a choice.
Feanor was not an Elf to take no for an answer!
In Tolkien's notes he made reference to Feanor burning the ships at the Firth of Drengist, with one of his twin sons on board because he thought that he was going to betray him and sail backto rejoin his mother.
The Silmarills were his obsession and he could have killed any of his sons if they refused to take the oath or dare break it.
It's hard to believe it, but I still like all of them

[Lenya]

Originally Posted by Kellquenti

I understand what you're sayng, but I don't think they had much of a choice.
Feanor was not an Elf to take no for an answer!
In Tolkien's notes he made reference to Feanor burning the ships at the Firth of Drengist, with one of his twin sons on board because he thought that he was going to betray him and sail backto rejoin his mother.
The Silmarills were his obsession and he could have killed any of his sons if they refused to take the oath or dare break it.
It's hard to believe it, but I still like all of them

I did not know he had twin sons, or maybe I did and just couldn't remember. But in any case it is interesting to know (the burning thing I mean). That changes things a bit, but I remember from the whole oath swearing thing that they didn't exactly hesitate to do it.