Discussion Thread Number 5 Of Wraiths-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign

[Udukhaturz]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Udu, why can't they all speak with one another? Why are Buz and Viv being relegated? Why is it that for the six months or whatever that I have been in this RPG that I cannot seem to get it through any of my FOEAD brethren's heads that unity works better than irrational, mean-spirited disunity? And why does Buz and Viv have to be treated like s*** by their peers, for coming in with good intent, NOT to destroy or torture either Khamul or Udu, but to help Lilly in her pain and talk and or fight with Khamul and Udu as EQUALS, EQUALS ALL, O.K., with the Second only getting a bit more say & power as he is second to the ML but he is NOT the ML himself. So why do you shut my two guys up, and only take speaking to Tolvadok seriously? Why couldn't all of us talk, huh?

WHY DID YOU BIND AND SILENCE MY CHARACTERS? We are on the same side, Udu. Man, I give up. I just give up at this point. That's it. I'm just going to hang back and watch, from this point out. Kill my Viv and Buz, why don't you. Go right ahead. It's just as distressing to me to have my characters shunted aside and silenced and tortured like they were common failures and lowly nothings, then to kill them and take their whole spirits and bodies outright.

No one was supposed to meddle. It was done under the Captain's orders, and Buz and Viv disobeyed. They were being punished for that reason. There was an opportunity to experience the scream room and probably do some good posts. I have changed it now, so that opportunity is lost.

When CS herself tells me personally that she wants her character out of my dungeon, I will let her out, but not one moment before! The hospitality of my dungeon is herefore denied to anyone else. I don't care how much you beg.

[Offensive material in quote edited out - Eärniel]

[Lotesse]

It is the Captain, and the Captain alone, who is authorised to "administer punishments." Last time I checked, neither Udu nor Khamul were the Captain. Khamul even had to get the go-ahead from the Captain in order just to "punish" Lilly. I really resent the way you act as if my Nazguls are of lesser quality, strength, cunning, worth, or ability than your Udu. And where is this combining ring thing coming from? Never heard of that. What other tricks do you have up those sleeves? I would SO DEARLY love to have had a list of strengths and abilities that Nazgul are canonically endowed with; I have always wanted such a list but alas, haven't been able to track onew down. Thanks for sharing yours, Udu. What about the rest of the people in this RPG, eh? Now I see what everyone's problem about the pirate raid is about.

AND ALSO, what prevented you from PMing me and talking about what you proposed to do with my guys? ALSO, if YOU had a problem with how I brought MY guys into Udu's house, and with what Udu was like, then why didn't you GIVE ME SOME FEEDBACK either here in this disc. thread, or via PM? I'm so over this crap.

[offensive material edited out - Eärniel]

[Udukhaturz]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

I really resent the way you act as if my Nazguls are of lesser quality, strength, cunning, worth, or ability than your Udu. And where is this combining ring thing coming from? Never heard of that.

It is in Unfinished Tales -

"Moreover their chief weapon was terror. This was actually greater when they were unclad and invisible; and it was GREATER ALSO WHEN THEY WERE GATHERED TOGETHER. " - Hunt for the Ring, Unfinished Tales, p. 343

If the Nazgul's ability to produce terror is greatened when they are together, certainly if two Nazgul weave a magic spell together and combine their powers, the spell would be stronger than it would be if just one was doing the action.

[Lotesse]

But would it be terrifying like that against ONE OF THEIR OWN? That's sort of a rhetorical question; I say no. I thought Nazgul were only supposed to be directing their terror talents upon all the non-Nazguls of Middle-Earth, not their own kind. And anyway, how would it even be possible for one Nazgul to terrify another -combined rings or not? An equal cannot overwhelm his or her equal. Khamul does not terrify Viv, neither, by a long shot, do any of her other brothers and sisters. The Morgul Lord instills in her a healthy respect and makes her nervous because she doesn't want to get on his bad side; she wants to impress him, but that is ONLY the Morgul Lord. Sauron is scary too, obviously, but all the others, well... same goes for the way Buz feels.

[Lotesse]

I should have left this RPG weeks ago. This takes up WAY too much of my energy, and for what. To get this kind of treatment from a fellow player, one who plays the same character-style as I do, no less? What disrespect. God, why did I even ever CARE about helping co-players work with each other, or why did I even care about telling other players how I liked their writing? Because I always said what I liked or disliked; when's the last time you ever had anything to say about my input?

[Offensive material edited out - Eärniel]

[Lotesse]

Aaaand, I am out. It has been a pleasure, RPGing with you guys, all told it has been a long, fun, frustrating, rewarding, punishing up-and-down, incredibly creative learning experience, and I thank each and every one of you guys for the opportunity to play and write with you. Viv and Buz have left that triangular house, and so for the story's sake so that you guys can continue, the two Nazzies have vanished. It's a total mystery where they have gone. Maybe they ran away, maybe they died, maybe a tornado sucked them up, I don't know, but I am out this time for good. Maybe sometimes in these big RPGs the problem is that too many cooks spoil the broth, or something, I don't know, but at any rate, I have definitely come to my end point with this project. It's not about you, Udu, or anyone else in particular, it is a cumulation of all the crap here and there stacking up for months, and the straw just broke the fuc*ing camel's back.

FOEADS and Shah, PM me if you guys want to do something about/with my characters; otherwise they are off limits.

[CrazySquirrel]

Wow, another fight!

Lotesse, what is the matter with you?

You can't be victorious in any fight! If you bring your characters in a tight spot, especially without prior consultation with anybody, you should fully expect them to suffer.

And considering that Khamul's ring is stronger than the others, Udu and Khamul might indeed have won. Why do you insist on always winning and get mad when you don't?

As to yours: " why can't they all speak with one another? ... unity works better than irrational, mean-spirited disunity?" I must remind you that Viv and Buz came NOT with words of wisdom, but started an irregular fight right away. So, if they didn't manage to talk to each other, it is your character's fault. Do you think such egotistic guys as Khamul and rpg-Udu like to be punched?

Moreover, you fully disregarded Udu's spell on the door. If he posted that it was "unbreakable", than it should be honored. You might have thought of some other solution, taking Udu's wife as a hostage, or something like that.

Yes I agreed to Lilly visiting Udu's facilities. But I myself, CS, I didn't feel like a sacrificial lamb. I liked playing along in this plotline, it developed beautifully. Serenoli and TD were enjoying it as well, I think. There was fascinating character development for Tolvadok, great Khamul's and Udu's evilness etc. I would have liked to continue it. That's why I was not over-enthusiastic at being rescued so unexpectedly, after only half an hour rpg-time.

You know what? When I look in a mirror, I don't see Lilly staring back at me. But you do see Viv. You shouldn't identify yourself with your character so much.

I don't know what Serenoli and TD think. Please, post your opinions.

[Serenoli]

Dang it, a fight! Just when I thought we'd all turned over a new leaf.

Well, I think Lotesse was out of order. Udu did say we could ask for edits, and she could've asked... but I do think in a Nazgul fight, the higher-ranked one wins, so Udu was okay in writing that. After all, why is everyone so scared of the ML? Because he's way more powerful. It rankles with me, too, that Tol lost, but I don't take it as a personal insult from Udu. It was a logical thing for him to write. I DO wish Khamul and Udu were more injured, at least Maethor should have got some more from Buz, the Bearish huge guy.

Besides, Lotesse, Udu has cause to be angry as well, with how your characters kept ruining his long-time plans of a torture. As far as I can tell, that torture chamber has been there for ages, and it wasn't very fair for you to take issue with it, and send a rescue without any PMs or discussion either. Anyway, thats my opinion. I hope you're not serious about leaving, but so many have left, or talked of leaving recently, that I've quite given up hope.

Rian, I thought it was pretty good. I see you played it safe, with only two (?) punches, but you wrote the emotions well, and besides, I don't think they could've gone on for much longer...

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by CrazySquirrel

:
:
You know what? When I look in a mirror, I don't see Lilly staring back at me. But you do see Viv. You shouldn't identify yourself with your character so much.
:
:

As for me, I really AM Valandil! But that's neither here nor there.

Let's see if everyone cools off after just a bit and if anyone has a change of heart. This is not a thread closing or anything - but let's don't all add further hasty words. We'll just see what the ultimate resolution here is before working out how to go on.

[Gordis]

My personal opinion, Val, - and not hasty at all! - is that your morose silence for a loo-ong period was one of the principle causes on the current state of things.

I can say for myself that your silence frustrated me and made me edgy and exasperated where I shouldn't have been. I bet I was not the only one who felt this way.

The differences should be discussed, IMHO, as politely and coolly as possible, not left to fester.

So here is my POV, take it or leave it.

My opinion on the last fight is the same as CS's and Serenoli's.

For my part, I was asked to allow the torture and not to meddle in it. I did as asked. I let the guys play. I would have NEVER sent the ML to Udu's house to interrupt the fight without the prior agreement of ALL involved.

Fight posts are not easy to write, because some characters get beaten and the character minders may feel wronged. There was absolutely no reason to get mad! So, my advice is to discuss what edits does one want from Udu - he proposed it himself!

Serenoli has made her (Serenoli, are you a "she"? - as I think looking at your cute avvie ) wishes known. I think, Udu will honor your quite reasonable wishes and add some injuries for Khamul and, especially, Maethor.

CS OK' d Udu's post, as far as I understood.

Now TD's turn and Lotesse's, if she wishes to reconsider and stay in the game.

That is about the fight.

As for the raid thing, really, perhaps it is better over. That is my personal opinion.

I would like to see what the others wish. And it MAINLY applies to you, Valandil. What plotlines do you wish to develop? And please, don't disappear again. Plee-ese!

Let us discuss all that, not the past grievances , but the future course of the story . And now, I believe, is as good a time for it, as ever.

And Rian, I really liked your last posts.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I can't post until Sunday, but I will put in a placeholder and edit my last post on Sunday.

[CrazySquirrel]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

I can't post until Sunday, but I will put in a placeholder and edit my last post on Sunday.

TD, Sunday is far away... Could you, please, tell what your post in a placeholder will be about? Will it contain your words to Tolvadok about Sauron?
If so, Serenoli could continue.

And do you want anything edited in Udu's last post? Or is it OK?

It is just that we could go on...

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I may be able to post tomorrow, and I shall try to but if not I'll put in a placeholer then and contain info about what it will be about.

Udu, please could you edit Khamûl out of your last post, because that is not something that I would have Khamûl do. He would obviously stop himself from being strangled but he would not have done anything other than that.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

In response to your request to discuss the future plotlines Gordis:

I don't have any specific storylines planned out, and I personally think that planning in advance for what we want to happen is counter-productive, because it'll get us stuck arguing over what we think should happen and limit adaptablility.

I would appreciate seeing a greater willingness to allow fluidity in the development of the storyline. No more proposing plotlines and then throwing a tantrum and scrapping the idea when it changes with the input of other players.

We've been doing pretty well with keeping the nitpicking down lately, now let's work on the desire to be constantly in control of the plot.

[The last sane person]

Stupid page bug!!

Maggie, you are my diplomatic voice. Thankyou! You saved me the trouble of much swearing and temper.

[Rían]

I agree - I'm always glad to see Maggie post when there's a dust-up going on. She's very diplomatic.

That said, I think CS, Serenoli and Gordis had some excellent points, too - be careful about associating yourself with your characters, look at things from the other person's POV (Viv's rescue ruined Udu's plans - prob. should have PMed him first to OK it), and always offer edits.

I really think this is a unique mixture of rpg and storywriting, and things will go much more smoothly if we treat it that way. I think the more intricate storylines (that involve multiple players) NEED to be coordinated ahead of time. When Udu and I wrote the Rian/Sapthan stuff, we coordinated ahead of time, and gave each other full edit rights, and it worked GREAT and STILL had plenty of freedom/spontaneity in it, too.

For something like the pirate raid, I think if the general idea is run by the group, it can happened. For example, if you want a raid by some mountain guys - "We'd really like a raid on the town by some mountain guys - are there any issues that you guys can see?" "Well, the king would naturally have defenses and information sources, but we could say that one of the guys in the links in communication had an accident and couldn't pass on the info - will that work?" etc. etc. What do you guys think? I really think that would work. And then everyone realize that it might not come out exactly as planned, too.

Originally Posted by Serenoli

Rian, I thought it was pretty good. I see you played it safe, with only two (?) punches, but you wrote the emotions well, and besides, I don't think they could've gone on for much longer...

thanks for the input - I'm glad to hear it came off ok - whew! Yeah, the first punch sequence was stopped when Rian grabbed T's arm, and the second stopped when T was out cold.

Gordis - I'm glad you liked it, too - yay!

Lotesse - I sure hope you'll stay, and that taking a break will enable you to come back I know that taking my break helped me immensely!

[Udukhaturz]

My final post - 870 - has just been edited.

[The last sane person]

Adios Udu.

[Rían]

oh, Udu

I don't know what to say ...

I don't blame you, but I hope you'll take a break and be back, too.

[Udukhaturz]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

oh, Udu

I don't know what to say ...

I don't blame you, but I hope you'll take a break and be back, too.

Rian, no, it is goodbye. I always enjoyed working with you on the Rian/Sapthan posts. Take care.