Gays, lesbians, bisexuals, PART II

[Spock]

Here we go again.


This is a continuation of the original thread found at

http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...?t=6075&page=1



Last edited by Sister Golden Hair

[TreebeardQuickbeam]

Warning: This topic is potentially explosive since people who have an opinion tend to resort to namecalling and other abusive behavior if you disagree them. If you're not politically correct, you can expect to be treated like your opinion doesn't count and called names because of it by people advocating Tolerance, which is a double standard because their attitude shows their own intolerance.

[Nurvingiel]

Tolerance is about being accepting of people regardless race, gender, sexual orientation, one's name, religion, age, the country you're from, etc.

Tolerance is not about smiling and nodding every time someone spews a homophobic, racist, sexist, or etc. opinion.

I accept that not everybody is cool with homosexuality. I am tolerant of people who feel that way, if they are thoughtful about their opinion and not homophobic.

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

I remember a friend of mine once accidentally said of Cary Grant, instead of "he swings both ways", "he liked to slam both doors". Talk about butchering!!!

Slam both doors... well, that's not the worst pun I've ever heard, but it's in the top ten.

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

(oh, it was just a joke referring to all the ruckus over the Da Vinci code and the Gospel of Judas - both Gnostic-type stuff)

*mutters* Stupid Da Vinci code.

[frodosampippinmerry]

homo=same Phobia= Fear

Saying you Know someone who overcame samew-sex orientation, or that you think same sex cohabitation is wrong is often the kind of coment that gets lableled homophobic. A priest said he was invited to a party and nearly raped by other men. When he complained he was branded homophobic. Complaining that you were nearly raped is not homophobia, and neither is saying same sex cohabitation is wrong. Neither springs from irrational fear of homosexuals

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by frodosampippinmerry

homo=same Phobia= Fear

Saying you Know someone who overcame samew-sex orientation, or that you think same sex cohabitation is wrong is often the kind of coment that gets lableled homophobic. A priest said he was invited to a party and nearly raped by other men. When he complained he was branded homophobic. Complaining that you were nearly raped is not homophobia, and neither is saying same sex cohabitation is wrong. Neither springs from irrational fear of homosexuals

I wasn't saying any of what you said was homophobic, I was talking about the irrational fear of homosexual people in general.

However, a priest goes to a party and was almost raped by some men and then called homophobic for reporting the incident? That sounds like something you just made up.

If you didn't make that up, provide a link to a newspaper article.


Mercutio, I think tolerance has come to mean tolerating (ie. putting up with something bad) something you don't agree with or is different from yourself.

That's why I said I won't tolerate racism, but I will tolerate people who, after having given it serious thought, are not cool with gay marriage.

Originally Posted by TreebeardQuickbeam

Warning: This topic is potentially explosive since people who have an opinion tend to resort to namecalling and other abusive behavior if you disagree them. If you're not politically correct, you can expect to be treated like your opinion doesn't count and called names because of it by people advocating Tolerance, which is a double standard because their attitude shows their own intolerance.

Erm, you've posted here eight times. What makes you think we call names?

Also, welcome to the Moot!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I think Mercutio is thinking of the way that tolerance has come to mean, in common parlance, not the tolerating of something, but rather the embracing of it. Those who consider homosexuality to be wrong are often called intolerant, even if they do absolutely nothing about it, even though that is the definition of tolerance.

[frodosampippinmerry]

I never meant to imply that you had said I was homophobic, it was an illustration of a point that was being made. If you think I made it up, I can refer you to the article I read it in a few weeks back, but but it would be nice if you'd just take my word for it since I'd rather not slander the people involved. It isn't a pleasant story to read. If you want the link, let me know.

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I wasn't saying any of what you said was homophobic, I was talking about the irrational fear of homosexual people in general.

However, a priest goes to a party and was almost raped by some men and then called homophobic for reporting the incident? That sounds like something you just made up.

If you didn't make that up, provide a link to a newspaper article.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Tolerance is about being accepting of people regardless race, gender, sexual orientation, one's name, religion, age, the country you're from, etc.

Tolerance is not about smiling and nodding every time someone spews a homophobic, racist, sexist, or etc. opinion.

I accept that not everybody is cool with homosexuality. I am tolerant of people who feel that way, if they are thoughtful about their opinion and not homophobic.

Same here, and also backwards-like.

Originally Posted by frodosampippinmerry

Saying you Know someone who overcame samew-sex orientation, or that you think same sex cohabitation is wrong is often the kind of coment that gets lableled homophobic. A priest said he was invited to a party and nearly raped by other men. When he complained he was branded homophobic. Complaining that you were nearly raped is not homophobia, and neither is saying same sex cohabitation is wrong. Neither springs from irrational fear of homosexuals

You're right there, fspm, but there ARE a lot of people out there who's opposition to homosexuality is NOT based upon careful consideration and thought, and maintained with charity (as I believe mine to be), but who simply are motivated by a kind of disgust or even hatred for homosexuals, and that is wrong.

[Mercutio]

(Side note)

Tolerance is an interesting word.....It stems from tolerate, meaning to put up with something bad. Tolerate comes from the latin tolerre, or tolert, which is to bear.

Only recently has tolerance become a positive thing.

[Butterbeer]

Originally Posted by TreebeardQuickbeam

Warning: This topic is potentially explosive since people who have an opinion tend to resort to namecalling and other abusive behavior if you disagree them. If you're not politically correct, you can expect to be treated like your opinion doesn't count and called names because of it by people advocating Tolerance, which is a double standard because their attitude shows their own intolerance.

Warning:

TreebeardQuickbeam is apt to issue warnings!

be warned!

[jammi567]

(Mods/Admins, if there's already a thread on this thread, feel free to merge it)

Homosexuality is a big issue in today's world. Some accept it, some don't. Each one of us has our own opinion on it.

So, just to get the ball rolling on the topic: If it was revealed during the run up to the Presidentual elections that Barack Obama was actually gay, and had a partner, so you think he would have gained as many votes as he did, or don't you think it would have mattered that much to the voters?

[Jonathan]

Well, if Barack had a partner of any sex on the side of his wife Michelle, that would have greatly upset the voters.

But of course it would have mattered whether a presidential candidate is gay. Considering the large number of conservative and religious Americans, having a gay partner would most likely have cost the candidate many votes.

[Insidious Rex]

Yes its strange to say but enough people in america can now envision a black man as president but not enough can envision a homosexual to get one elected to that office. I can only imagine the "agenda" hysteria that would erupt forth from the right... Especially with the gay marriage debate as it is.

Plus the office of president has a very important ceremonial role for most americans unlike say a senator or a governor or something. And I don’t think Americans would be able to get their minds around the concept of a president living in the white house with his male partner or, perhaps just as bad, a SINGLE president! Im pretty sure it will be a while until we see an openly gay president, a single president or for that matter an openly atheist president. Too many Americans would just find it too disturbing. Of course 12 months ago I would have put “a black president” on that list as well for the very same reasons…

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Of course, one might point out that when the next gay president is elected, it'll only be the 'next" one.

[GrayMouser]

Wow, something that Muslim, Christian, and Communist nations can finally agree on -it's okay to murder homosexuals.

Funny, the nations opposing this are mostly those secular Western ones that are constantly being decried by religious leaders for their lack of morality and failure to embrace the culture of life.

In favor of the amendment to remove sexual orientation from the UN resolution on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions (79 nations):

Afghanistan, Algeria, Angola, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belize, Benin, Botswana, Brunei Dar-Sala, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, China, Comoros, Congo, Cote d'Ivoire, Cuba, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Democratic Republic of Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, Haiti, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jamaica, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Russian Federation, Rwanda, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and Grenadines, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Africa, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Syrian Arab Republic, Tajikistan, Tunisia, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United Republic of Tanzania, Uzbekistan, Viet Nam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe

Opposed to the UN amendment to remove sexual orientation from the resolution on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions (70 nations):

Andorra, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bhutan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Hungary, Iceland, India, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, Micronesia (FS), Monaco, Montenegro, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Romania, Samoa, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Timor-Leste, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay, Venezuela

[The Gaffer]

Disgusting.

In some cases it's not that they don't think it's a serious issue, it's that they're the ones perpetrating it.

GM, do you happen to know if this is something that can be vetoed?

[inked]

The Huffington Post weighs in:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thor-h..._b_787024.html

Do note that Israel is the only Middle East country to oppose this.

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by inked

Do note that Israel is the only Middle East country to oppose this.

Well, Israel is still an outpost of Western liberalism transplanted into the area. Most Israelis are still secular- the Tel Aviv vs. Jerusalem distinction-though the religious fundamentalists are growing in strength and numbers, and in the places where they have power- like Jerusalem- Jews, Muslims, and Christians can sink their differences and come together to express their hostility to homosexuals.

[brownjenkins]

While I don't like the implicit implication in the vote, I've never been a fan of specific hate crime laws. If you choose to ban extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions, you don't need to spell out all the possible instances. In fact, but doing so at all, you take power away from the statement.

[The Gaffer]

I think I get your drift, in theory. However, I think in practice, the opposite is true.

It is always possible for some criminal government to twist the broad definitions; adding the detail brings into focus those areas where, in practice, most of the prejudice is directed.