Discussion Thread Number 4 Of Wraiths-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign

[Rían]

Sure, TD - go ahead and post yours, then I'll adjust it.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

I think it is almost common knowledge that she was from Eregion and one f the Feanoreans, as even Oreturion heard of it. Sure the ML and Aiwendis know it.

It's common knowledge that she is from Eregion. It is not common knowledge that she followed the sons of Feanor. Oreturion knows because he had met her in Imladris, where it would have been harder to keep that a secret. Earniel also knows for some unspecified reason, but her character's knowing was established almost directly after I entered the rpg so I'm not about to ask her to change it now.

ML and Aiwendis might have guessed, but I doubt they would know for sure.

Unless Rian or Earniel recognize her from Sirion no one knows about her involvement in the kinslaying.

However, Mahtaliel doesn't know for sure that your characters don't know so Aiwendis is welcome to bluff if you still wish to use a bit of blackmail.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Lady Marion Magdalena

It's common knowledge that she is from Eregion. It is not common knowledge that she followed the sons of Feanor. Oreturion knows because he had met her in Imladris, where it would have been harder to keep that a secret. Earniel also knows for some unspecified reason, but her character's knowing was established almost directly after I entered the rpg so I'm not about to ask her to change it now.

ML and Aiwendis might have guessed, but I doubt they would know for sure.

Unless Rian or Earniel recognize her from Sirion no one knows about her involvement in the kinslaying.

However, Mahtaliel doesn't know for sure that your characters don't know so Aiwendis is welcome to bluff if you still wish to use a bit of blackmail.

Ok, fine with me.

Actually Aiwendis is not going to blackmail Mahtaliel directly. Neither is she going to show vast knowledge of Mahtaliel's background. She only wants to plant some doubts in King's mind re: Mahtaliel's character.

EDIT: and yes, they might have guessed. I believe many of the Mirdain were Feanoreans. Celebrimbor was one himself, though he didn't follow his father in Nargothrond.
I am not sure I have a right impression, but definitely it looks like most of the kinslayers at Sirion later (in the Second Age) gathered in Eregion, while those from the other side, followed Elrond and Gil-Galad.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

I am not sure I have a right impression, but definitely it looks like most of the kinslayers at Sirion later (in the Second Age) gathered in Eregion, while those from the other side, followed Elrond and Gil-Galad.

Possibly; I always thought more that they got scattered after the War of Wrath. There probably weren't many of them left after the third Kinslaying and with their leaders gone some might have surrendered to Gil-Galad or Eonwe, others probably would have joined Celebrimbor and still others might just have gone off on their own.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Yes, she can do that, if Lilly and Viv think that there is not enough servants in Orrodel.

But there is also the Morgul Lord's POV.
He has removed the hot-headed Khamul from the direction of the Orrodel group. But the Orrodel group needs a head, to keep them in line. I remember you agreed to it yourself, Lotesse. Lilly is a stubborn fool, Buz is completely under her influence and Vivvie is in love, very emotional and anyway has no authority over the other two.
So the ML will appoint another head of the Orrodel groop: one of the high ranking nazgul, and specifically Tolvadok. But how can he put him in Orrodel? Another brother/cousin? Very unlikely and suspicious. So he is going to take the post of the house-keeper. It is meant as a nasty surprise for Lilly.
CS is looking forward to be Very Surprized and Very upset, as all the nazgul hate Tolvadok.
Tolvadok has got the advertisement and is going to ask Rian for advice...But anyway he will take the job, as that was the ML order.
Now I have revealed all!
I hope, Lotesse, you are not against this little plot? It will give you and CS and Serenoli a lot of possibilities for interaction.
But if you are firmly against, please tell so now, we will abandon the idea.

No, it's a great idea! I've been very unclear lately as to what seems to be going on in this housekeeper vein, so it's nice to be enlightened. Viv won't take well at all to being treated poorly or bossed around by Tolvadok, though, just so you all involved know. She will leave Orrodel and rent a room elsewhere in town before she submits to Tolvadok throwing his weight around. The only ones Viv ever submits to are her Morgul Lord, and to a lesser degree Khamul. Period. I loathe the idea of more Nazgul tension; when I started this RPG it was in the anticipation of having Nazgul unity, not constant division, inter-plots, nastiness, etcetera. We are all Nine supposed to be on the same side, remember? No wonder the Nine never get any success in LotR.

[Lotesse]

Great post, Rian! Nice fluid dialogue. If I were her brother (or sister, for that matter) I would want to kick Professor Galadannun's ass, so that sounded just right, her brother being concerned & angry like that.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Okay Rian I have posted. I had Rian give the book to Khamûl reluctantly. If you really don't want that to happen I can edit it, but Khamûl really would want the ML to see the book.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

TD, I just posted Mahtaliel's response. I had him give the book back to Mahtaliel in disgust. But I can also change that if you like.

Small request - Could you make the references to Feanor much less specific. He knows she's from Eregion, that's it. He would not know for sure that she is a feanorean and he would certainly not know that she is one due to kinship.

Thanks.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Do you mean between Khamûl and the ML?

Could you possibly edit out Khamûl giving her back the book and have him repeat what he said earlier about it being his decision to make. Can you also edit out him telling her he will go to the ML and have him saying.
"You will soon regret becoming my enemy. I have left many enemies in my wake in my lifetime and you will be no exception."

[Rían]

Thanks, Lotesse! I'm having fun with my fantasies of an older brother (I only had sisters, although we DID always stand up for each other against others; among ourselves, of course, we fought! )

TD and Maggie - Hroom, hroom, our scene will need some edits, since there are issues with the book ... personally, I'd prefer Khamul to not give the book to Mahtaliel originally - I think that might be more in character with everyone (I can understand that Khamul would want the ML to see it).

The way it is now, with Rian getting the book back and then giving it back to Khamul, just doesn't work IMO, because Rian would NOT give it back to Khamul under threat of discipline by a professor. That is NO threat at all to her. She'd rather leave the University forever WITH her book than stay and give it to Khamul. She'd take to her heels and run with it, or demand to see the Chancellor right away, or something like that. What do you guys think? Will that work? It looks like Maggie wants him to keep the book, and my post already has her having it back and hiding it with her brother, so we'll need to come to a joint decision.

I have to go out again in a few minutes, so let me know what you guys think would work best. My only thing would be that once Rian had the book, she would NOT give it back to ANYONE - she'd run away first.

eh, these are kind of rambly thoughts ... too much going on today ... can't express myself well...

EDIT - the more I think about it, the more difficulty I have with it - if Rian doesn't get it back, she'd carry out her original thread of throwing a huge scene ... hmm, I'm stuck! Or she would go get her brother and/or Valandil ... ack, I just have no idea what to do here!

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Do you mean between Khamûl and the ML?

Yes. That and the 'daughter of Feanor' bit. The ML shouldn't have the slightest clue that there is any actual kinship between Mahtaliel and Feanor, and even if he did know, it's Nerdanel and the sons of Feanor she's related to. Feanor himself is just an inlaw who died before she was born.

Your requested changes have been made, though I'm with Rian in that her character wouldn't have given it back to him in the first place. Nor would Mahtaliel have passively allowed him to take it from her after it had been returned. He may want the Chancellor to see it but his case for withholding it is very shaky, especially as we have established that Rian's name is written inside the book, marking her as the owner.

[Lotesse]

All this book stuff is making my head swim. It's getting very confusing. To say the least.

I thought it made the best sense and worked the best the way Rian dealt with her book scene from the beginning.

TD & Lady M, I liked your latest posts. I really liked Mahtaliel's fearless, matter-of-fact attitude with Khamul; it's very cool.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Bwaha. It's fun playing a character with very little to lose...

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Lady Marion Magdalena

...though I'm with Rian in that her character wouldn't have given it back to him in the first place.

Absolutely! NO way in creation would Rian give him the book back!

Here's a thought - what if we make the book just another one she has from Gondolin, but NOT the one from her parents. That would make it at least feasible that she would give it back under some compelling pressure. ANd it would also make it more feasible that there IS something secret written in it - a book from her parents would hardly have anything like that. And the compelling pressure might be Khamul's threat to do something with the poor people that Mahtaliel has been helping - Rian would see M.'s anguish over that, and that would be sufficient to make her reluctantly give the book back to Khamul with a promise that he wouldn't carry out the threats. Thoughts?

[Lotesse]

So confusing! If you want my 2 cents, I'd say what's wrong with keeping it like you had it originally, Rian? It was working perfectly that way; now all this back-editing and trying to fight over the book ... Why does Khamul HAVE to have this book; can't he just fume and be mad that he lost this mini-battle over Rian's book and move on to something else to aggravate her & the others about? It seems like all this crazy re-editing and so forth about the book stems from TD's wanting so badly to have Khamul control the book scene. So confusing.

[Rían]

I'm fine with keeping it the way I had it, Lotesse. Heck, as far as I've posted, Rian has it back and has it hidden away! (and note that I didn't specify whether or not it was in the house ... )

But I can see Khamul's point about the book from the POV of his character, so I'm trying to work with him and with Maggie to come up with something we all feel good about.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Um... much too confusing... Especially since Khamul doesn't even know about the Public School, not in specifics at least.
Your post in which Rian has and hides the book was written first and so has the priority. You and TD work it out and I'll edit accordingly.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Lady Marion Magdalena

[...] Earniel also knows for some unspecified reason, but her character's knowing was established almost directly after I entered the rpg so I'm not about to ask her to change it now.
[...]Unless Rian or Earniel recognize her from Sirion no one knows about her involvement in the kinslaying. [...]

If I have been a little too forward with 'knowing' things, I do apologize. I suppose I was working under the (unestablished) idea that Elves would be able to recognize aspects about eachother on sight. Something like that every Elf would be able to recognize for example an Elf from Mirkwood as a Wood Elf, just as RPG-Eärniel would then be immediatly identifiable as Sea Elf. I went ahead with it without thinking much further.

More logically would be perhaps, that RPG-Eärniel learned of Mahtaliel (by reputation) when the Reed-Elves were trading with the Gwaith-i-MÃ*rdain. While Eärniel most likely wasn't directly involved in the trading herself, she would have heard about the specific Jewel-smiths from the other Reed-Elves. What might have been 'common knowledge' among the Elves about certain individuals wouldn't necesarily have reached human ears. But you decide what is known about your character and what isn't, of course.

I don't think RPG-Eärniel saw Mahtaliel at the Kin-slaying at the Sirion-settlement, her attitude towards Mahtaliel would then have been cold for sure.

Anyway, we can work any angle out further if you like.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Lady Marion Magdalena

Um... much too confusing... Especially since Khamul doesn't even know about the Public School, not in specifics at least.

yeah, I guess you're right, and also it would involve editing Udu's posts, too - eep!

Your post in which Rian has and hides the book was written first and so has the priority. You and TD work it out and I'll edit accordingly.

Oh well, at least we tried!
TD, our characters will have to fight over something else, I think - this involves way too many problems. Sorry

I think for TD's post, just edit and take out where she hands the book back to Khamul, and put in a verbal response instead along the lines of "Do what you will, but I will hinder it, if I may!" (Hey, that's Eowyn's line! ) OK, something like "Do what you will, but I will not give you what is mine!" And then take out her line where she says she expects it back. I think the rest should be fine.

And Maggie's post, just change to where it matches that Rian currently has the book. The dialogue was really great in both of your posts, TD and Maggie! I like Khamul/Mahtaliel scenes.

[Gordis]

I second Rian's last suggestions. I also thought that once Khamul let the book out of his claws, he will never get it back, unless by cheer force.