Atheists and Fantasy

[Sheeana]

How is atheism not: "2 a : a systematic body of concepts especially about human life or culture b : a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of an individual, group, or culture"? Eh, eh?

[Lizra]

Another "Sunday School" topic. (Sorry, I'm really "burnt out" on the religious bit here at Entmoot lately. )

From this atheist's (High Priestess of Doo Dah) corner.......Sci Fi is fiction. The "belief system" is the conerstone of the fiction. The fact that I'm an atheist has nothing to do with my enjoyment of a good story. Gwai....you "think" too much!

[cassiopeia]

I don't see what the problem is. I am an agnostic (or athiest, depends on how I feel ), and I love both fantasy and science fiction. I don't believe in any way that those stories are real (even though I wish there really were hobbits!). I am willing to believe the concepts inside the story (like a Ring could really make one invisible), for why else would I read it if I didn't? Anyway, a lot of science fiction is highly improbably: it's doubtful we'll ever go faster than the speed of light. Perhaps fantasy is more attractive to athiests because it allows us to 'believe' for a little while that there supernatural forces. Actually, I have wondered if my obsession with LOTR has something to do with that.
Hmm, there does seem to be a lot of religious threads here lately. I don't mind, because I've been thinking about it a lot. Probably more than I should.

[Ruinel]

Iron Parrot is correct. Atheism is NOT a religion unto itself. The fact that atheists do not believe in a deity does not take away from the enjoyment of fictional literature.

I can feel Lizra's frustration. Too many religion topics. Too bad I'm on her 'Ignore' list... LOL!

Gwai, if you are not committing idolitry and not worshipping false gods by reading a fictional story in which the characters worship a non-Christian god, then why would an Atheist need to believe in a god in order to enjoy the story?

[TheEvilForceOfSuchandSuch]

Weird....I just came from the religion thread.

I am atheist, I don't love fantasy but its a lets call it favored genre (I'm more of a horror person, but both mentions are purely personal taste). That is obvious or I wouldn't be here. Judging by Tolkien's work there is some kind of proof in say the Valar. Just look at the Ents and the Eagles. They were the very thought of Yavanna. And Gandalf, Saruman and Radaghast are proof in Middle-earth of a higher being because they are lesser deities, the Maia. You all probably knew that, but I used it to emphasize my point. Also, what the heck with Valinor? Unlike heaven you can actually get there in an alive state and see the proof!

This might've already been said, but I'm pressed for time .

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Ruinel


Gwai, if you are not committing idolitry and not worshipping false gods by reading a fictional story in which the characters worship a non-Christian god, then why would an Atheist need to believe in a god in order to enjoy the story?

AAARRGGGHH!! He's not saying that!

He's simply conjecturing that people with a particular outlook, worldview, frame-of-mind, whatever, would probably like a type of fiction that is more sympathetic with that viewpoint.


A Certain Other Tolkien Forum had a poll on preferences for SF vs, Fantasy, and the results were pretty consistent with Gwaimir's hypothesis- the SF fans tended to be more skeptical types; the fantasy fans more spiritual/religious (not specifically Christian, a lot of New Agers out there)

I can feel Lizra's frustration. Too many religion topics

Well, you don't have to click on them

[GrayMouser]

A parallel distinction can be made within science fiction between "hard' and "soft" , say Niven and LeGuin; while many people (like me) enjoy both, people of different world-views tend to orient more to one than the other.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
He's simply conjecturing that people with a particular outlook, worldview, frame-of-mind, whatever, would probably like a type of fiction that is more sympathetic with that viewpoint.

Welll I disagree with the hypothesis - because I just like a good story. As I have said - my favorite author (next to Tolkien), Katherine Kurtz, revolves her stories, the Deryni series around Medieval England with all the trappings of Christianity and religion. I love those books - they are so detailed and it brings you back to those times. It also has some mysticism mixed in too. But really the underlying themes of the books is racism and mans hatred for those things which are different.

By the way - IP - your post was great.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by cassiopeia
I am an agnostic...and I love both fantasy and science fiction.

Ha! Told ya!

AAARRGGGHH!! He's not saying that!

He's simply conjecturing that people with a particular outlook, worldview, frame-of-mind, whatever, would probably like a type of fiction that is more sympathetic with that viewpoint.

Yep, that sounds pretty well accurate.

JD: Read some of the Deryni books. Loved them. I presume by "mysticism", you refer to various elements such as invocations of the four archangels and such?

And JD, you seem to me to be pretty well a "Catholic atheist", if you know what I mean. It's by no means unlikely that you would gravitate towards Catholic worlds, such as the Deryni books, and Middle-earth.

By the way: England? I thought it was just a medieval secondary world setting which was heavily influenced by the Catholic church, but not actually England....but then again, I can be a bit dense with these things.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Yep, that sounds pretty well accurate.

I was just throwing my 2 cents in.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
JD: Read some of the Deryni books. Loved them. I presume by "mysticism", you refer to various elements such as invocations of the four archangels and such?

Mostly - yes. The ceremony of calling up the archangels is great. I really have to read them again and I want to - but most of my Dernyi books are packed away in Indiana.

And JD, you seem to me to be pretty well a "Catholic atheist", if you know what I mean. It's by no means unlikely that you would gravitate towards Catholic worlds, such as the Deryni books, and Middle-earth.

Not necesassarily - because there are a lot of other fantasy books I like too - just that those are my two favorite because they have entire worlds built around them. They're not just a book - but a whole environment with a history. I also love Englsh History - so that had more to do with my love of the Deryni series than anything else - not to mention the detail of writing.

By the way: England? I thought it was just a medieval secondary world setting which was heavily influenced by the Catholic church, but not actually England....but then again, I can be a bit dense with these things.

Nope - Gwynedd was the old name for Wales - or at least a section of it. I believe the northern. Obviously not really England - she just moved thigs around a bit - but it's all the English Isles represented in her books. I studied English History - and the way of life is Medieval England.

[eowyngirl14]

im an athiest and i still like fantasy. its my second favorite genre, after science fiction. i never really thought about it being based on faithe or whatever.

what i like about it most is that there are no certain rules that authors have to follow, they can just make up anything and defy the normal rules of our universe, such as gravity. it just really facinates me.

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Ha! Told ya!



Yep, that sounds pretty well accurate.

Oops, didn't mean to sound as if I were putting words in your mouth.

Should have read " I don't think he's saying that."

From JD

Welll I disagree with the hypothesis - because I just like a good story

Actually, I disagree with it myself- though I must say that I don't read much modern fantasy- I was put off by my first couple of attempts at the post-Tolkien 800-page multi-volume series.

[Alassë Elensar]

I am an atheist, but I love fantasy (and science fiction). For me, I think that the allure of fantasy is the possibily of believing without seeing. I can't really put it into words. You see, the different worlds like Tolkien's, for instance, allows me to escape from this 'harsh reality', shall we say, into a world where it seems to me that you could believe in something(s) without seeing it (them). Or... maybe it's just because I like the different races and magic and stuff. Eh.

[TheEvilForceOfSuchandSuch]

*claps* Nicely put Alasse . Of course, its like that for me, only its not the good people/places that help me escaped. Its the wonderful Middle-earth sources of evil that really put me in a laid-back mindset. Don't ask....

[jellyfishannah]

IP is right. About everything. What would we do without you?

I am a christian and I enjoy books that even, sometimes, totally disagree with my faith.

It seems that most atheists-at least the ones I know-don't really believe anything. They can never define their beliefs.

And then theres this discussion about 'blind faith'. Whoever said it was blind? What would you do if, say, a close friend or relative was 'miraculously healed' by faith. By prayer or something. And even the doctors said "there's no way this could've happened"? lol. I'm starting to sound like one of those "I believe!"-ers.

Sorry if I'm getting off the topic here....