would you rather have boromir live or die - Page 4

Millane · 04-16-2003, 09:51 AM

you have offended me greatly Linaewen, not only for calling Boromir arrogant but prefering Faramir over Boromir

there were obviously reasons Denethor liked Boromir more

Quote:

In the former yes, he is too proud to admit that his initial thoughts of the Ring are wrong.

i dont think that had anything to do with pride... i think it was more hopelessness and he clung to the hope that the ring would be able to save Gondor... a lot of people say that Boromir was weaker for sucuming to the ring but i see it differently... his need for it was greater and it would have been more to do with himself than the ring curropting his weak mortal will

Ruinel · 04-16-2003, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Millane
... a lot of people say that Boromir was weaker for sucuming to the ring but i see it differently... his need for it was greater and it would have been more to do with himself than the ring curropting his weak mortal will

Wow... I really hadn't thought of that before. It makes sense though.

Gwaimir Windgem · 04-16-2003, 10:31 AM

I disagree with it, though.

Ruinel · 04-16-2003, 11:39 AM

I think I see where Millane is going with this...
Boromir was desperate to help Gondor. Gondor is the forefront in the war against Sauron. Therefore he had his need for The One Ring working with The One Ring's desires to be back with its master (Sauron). A sort of double wammie against him.

Is this what you are trying to convey, Millane?

Bombadillo · 04-16-2003, 12:59 PM

EVIL!

The Ring carries the fate of all of ME. THat's much more imposrtant than Gondor. Gondor is a sideplot involving Aragorn that emphesizes (in the end) what Frodo was fighting for.

Elbereth Gilthoniel · 04-17-2003, 04:13 PM

Boromir wasn't sure that if he'll take the ring he will destroy middle earth, someone told it to him in Elrond's house but I don't think he trasted them.

I do prefer Faramir but boromir wasn't working for himself, all he wanted was the sefty of his city, and maby the satesfection of his father.

Millane · 04-18-2003, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Boromir was desperate to help Gondor. Gondor is the forefront in the war against Sauron. Therefore he had his need for The One Ring working with The One Ring's desires to be back with its master (Sauron). A sort of double wammie against him.

ta for that Ruinel i guess i should have explained it a bit better... looking at it using this theory can also sorta explain a few of the other carachters actions concerning the ring... Frodo's resiliance to the ring holding out till the end was because he only had the pressure from the ring not from himself... Bilbo and Gollum didnt know what they had in there hands (and couldnt have made any use of it) so they also were only open to the curroption of the ring itself... as for Aragorn, well i believe that he, like Boromir, could have put the ring to use, but unlike Boromir he didnt have the pressure from himself to use it and so wasnt taken by it like Boromir... maybe im just trying to find excuses for good old Boromir but it seems like sense to me

Quote:

I disagree with it, though.

so do you think it is just Boromirs weak mortal spirit???

Quote:

The Ring carries the fate of all of ME. THat's much more imposrtant than Gondor. Gondor is a sideplot involving Aragorn that emphesizes (in the end) what Frodo was fighting for.

i dont quite get your point... are you saying that Gondor wasnt a main part in the story? coz whats that got to do with Boromir... or are you saying that Boromir was selfish trying to save Gondor? if so the rest of M-e wasnt fighting the battle Gondor was... if i was a little hobbit in the shire i would have Boromir doing anything (short of trying to flog the ring

) to keep Gondor on her feet...

Eowyn, Lady of Rohan · 04-18-2003, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Millane
you have offended me greatly Linaewen, not only for calling Boromir arrogant but prefering Faramir over Boromir there were obviously reasons Denethor liked Boromir more

Why?? why??? (

) Why did Boromir die????

gimli7410 · 04-19-2003, 04:13 PM

i have a whole bunch of friends who thinnk boromir is evil but i hate it when they say it because he only wanted the ring to save gondor but of course he would of become corrupted but he didnt realize that.

Bombadillo · 04-19-2003, 04:45 PM

I know he wasn't evil and I know he wasn't weak. He was indeed rather strong for holding out against the Ring for so long alone. But alone. I think his main problem was stupidity. He could have easily realised he was becomming corrupt (he must have known it) but he did nothing. The least he could have done was tell Gandalf right away.

And not to sound like a middle school guidance counciler mind you. THe Ring is a much more important issue than stolen lunch money

Linaewen · 04-20-2003, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Millane
you have offended me greatly Linaewen, not only for calling Boromir arrogant but prefering Faramir over Boromir there were obviously reasons Denethor liked Boromir more

*is very mad* My opinion is that he was arrogant and exceptionally annoying. (Almost every time he speaks he utters something along the lines of Gondor/in my land or Minas Tirith). Of course he had some good qualities, I admire Faramir's more. Faramir was intelligent, strong and gentle. *sigh*.

Quote:

Originally posted by Millane
i dont think that had anything to do with pride... i think it was more hopelessness and he clung to the hope that the ring would be able to save Gondor... a lot of people say that Boromir was weaker for sucuming to the ring but i see it differently... his need for it was greater and it would have been more to do with himself than the ring curropting his weak mortal will [/B]

The first part I agree with, the second

Quote:

Originally posted by Millane
as for Aragorn, well i believe that he, like Boromir, could have put the ring to use, but unlike Boromir he didnt have the pressure from himself to use it and so wasnt taken by it like Boromir... maybe im just trying to find excuses for good old Boromir but it seems like sense to me [/B]

Yes. Aragorn could have succumbed to the ring, and he would have had enough reasons to convince himself that he needed it also. But he realised its danger etc. Boromir knew the danger too, yet he convinced himself utterly that he needed it. Not only out of desperation, but out of ARROGANCE, that he knew what was best for the ring/ME but everyone else didn't.

Hope this post makes sense and is correct. Can't think of very good arguments now- too angry.

***Jonathan*** · 04-20-2003, 07:35 AM

When Boromir, I was a little sad. Deep inside, he was a nice person. He was well-liked by the hobbits and even after Boromir had assaulted Frodo, the Ringbearer still thought of Boromir as his friend.
But it was good of Tolkien to let Boromir be killed, it spiced the story up a bit. I remember from The Hobbit, where everyone of Bilbo's dwarven friends survived throughout the whole book. While I was reading, I hoped that someone could die sooner or later.

It was not until the end that they suffered some casualties, but that was a little too late, I think.

Anyway, the space that was left after Boromir's death could easily be filled by his brother Faramir. If Tolkien had let Boromir live and Faramir die, it would have been a disaster.

Linaewen · 04-20-2003, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Anyway, the space that was left after Boromir's death could easily be filled by his brother Faramir. If Tolkien had let Boromir live and Faramir die, it would have been a disaster.

Amen! Huh Millane!

Bombadillo · 04-20-2003, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Millane
you have offended me greatly Linaewen, not only for calling Boromir arrogant but prefering Faramir over Boromir there were obviously reasons Denethor liked Boromir more

No Offense- You mean because they were both crazy nutcases? I think Faramir is just much easier to like, and Denethor would have been more proud of him seeing how noble and honorable he is. I didn't see any evidence of his prefering Borimir.

gimli7410 · 04-20-2003, 11:00 AM

have you read the books. there is always little hints of how denethor like boromir better. he even said he wishedfaramir had died rather then boromir

Elf Girl · 04-20-2003, 12:00 PM

Gimli7410 is right.

Denethor on Boromir's death:

Quote:

Faramir should have gone in his stead.

gimli7410 · 04-20-2003, 01:18 PM

ya i was right about somethin

Elf Girl · 04-20-2003, 01:39 PM

Yes, for once.

gimli7410 · 04-20-2003, 04:28 PM

and what is that supposed to mean elf girl????

Linaewen · 04-21-2003, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bombadillo
No Offense- You mean because they were both crazy nutcases? I think Faramir is just much easier to like, and Denethor would have been more proud of him seeing how noble and honorable he is. I didn't see any evidence of his prefering Borimir.

Quote:

Originally posted by gimli7410
have you read the books. there is always little hints of how denethor like boromir better. he even said he wishedfaramir had died rather then boromir

Yes. gimli7410 is right. Except, He was NOT subtle. Hello, who thinks 'Yes, I prefer you died instead of your brother' is subtle?

04-16-2003, 10:31 AM	#63
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	I disagree with it, though. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

04-16-2003, 12:59 PM	#65
Bombadillo "The Bomb" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: all over the place Posts: 1,601	EVIL! The Ring carries the fate of all of ME. THat's much more imposrtant than Gondor. Gondor is a sideplot involving Aragorn that emphesizes (in the end) what Frodo was fighting for. __________________ Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity?

04-17-2003, 04:13 PM	#66
Elbereth Gilthoniel Enting Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: israel Posts: 80	Boromir wasn't sure that if he'll take the ring he will destroy middle earth, someone told it to him in Elrond's house but I don't think he trasted them. I do prefer Faramir but boromir wasn't working for himself, all he wanted was the sefty of his city, and maby the satesfection of his father. __________________ O Elbereth! Gilthoniel! We still remember, we who dwell In this far land beneath the trees, thy starlight on the Western Seas.

04-19-2003, 04:13 PM	#69
gimli7410 the dumb stoner canuck Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: canada Posts: 2,542	i have a whole bunch of friends who thinnk boromir is evil but i hate it when they say it because he only wanted the ring to save gondor but of course he would of become corrupted but he didnt realize that. __________________ -"Down with the system"-Serj tankian of system of a down -“Humans have been on the earth for millions of years, yet we don’t believe man began thinking until he started building walls. And what good have these walls ever done us?”-Serj tankian of soad -"stupid people do stupid things"-Serj tankian of soad "Trying is the first step to failure" Homer Simpson "It isn't going to be easy"-jerseydevil "only the good die young" I AM CANADIAN If the people lead, the leaders will follow.

04-19-2003, 04:45 PM	#70
Bombadillo "The Bomb" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: all over the place Posts: 1,601	I know he wasn't evil and I know he wasn't weak. He was indeed rather strong for holding out against the Ring for so long alone. But alone. I think his main problem was stupidity. He could have easily realised he was becomming corrupt (he must have known it) but he did nothing. The least he could have done was tell Gandalf right away. And not to sound like a middle school guidance counciler mind you. THe Ring is a much more important issue than stolen lunch money __________________ Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity?

04-16-2003, 11:39 AM	#64
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	I think I see where Millane is going with this... Boromir was desperate to help Gondor. Gondor is the forefront in the war against Sauron. Therefore he had his need for The One Ring working with The One Ring's desires to be back with its master (Sauron). A sort of double wammie against him. Is this what you are trying to convey, Millane?

04-20-2003, 11:00 AM	#75
gimli7410 the dumb stoner canuck Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: canada Posts: 2,542	have you read the books. there is always little hints of how denethor like boromir better. he even said he wishedfaramir had died rather then boromir __________________ -"Down with the system"-Serj tankian of system of a down -“Humans have been on the earth for millions of years, yet we don’t believe man began thinking until he started building walls. And what good have these walls ever done us?”-Serj tankian of soad -"stupid people do stupid things"-Serj tankian of soad "Trying is the first step to failure" Homer Simpson "It isn't going to be easy"-jerseydevil "only the good die young" I AM CANADIAN If the people lead, the leaders will follow.

04-20-2003, 01:18 PM	#77
gimli7410 the dumb stoner canuck Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: canada Posts: 2,542	ya i was right about somethin __________________ -"Down with the system"-Serj tankian of system of a down -“Humans have been on the earth for millions of years, yet we don’t believe man began thinking until he started building walls. And what good have these walls ever done us?”-Serj tankian of soad -"stupid people do stupid things"-Serj tankian of soad "Trying is the first step to failure" Homer Simpson "It isn't going to be easy"-jerseydevil "only the good die young" I AM CANADIAN If the people lead, the leaders will follow.

04-20-2003, 01:39 PM	#78
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	Yes, for once. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

04-20-2003, 04:28 PM	#79
gimli7410 the dumb stoner canuck Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: canada Posts: 2,542	and what is that supposed to mean elf girl???? __________________ -"Down with the system"-Serj tankian of system of a down -“Humans have been on the earth for millions of years, yet we don’t believe man began thinking until he started building walls. And what good have these walls ever done us?”-Serj tankian of soad -"stupid people do stupid things"-Serj tankian of soad "Trying is the first step to failure" Homer Simpson "It isn't going to be easy"-jerseydevil "only the good die young" I AM CANADIAN If the people lead, the leaders will follow.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Boromir: A Display of Humanity (My Thoughts)	Aragorn	Lord of the Rings Books	22	09-15-2006 10:31 PM
The Shadow on Boromir	SonOfSamWise	Writer's Workshop	12	07-28-2006 07:49 PM
Boromir I became a wraith?	Gordis	Lord of the Rings Books	39	09-13-2005 12:26 PM
SPOLIERS! A motive for Boromir and Faramir	Elfhelm	Lord of the Rings Movies	19	11-16-2003 12:49 AM
What if Boromir vs. Faramir	afro-elf	Lord of the Rings Books	8	01-17-2002 09:59 PM