Anyone do any fantasy writing? - Page 4

Galenavar · 02-25-2003, 10:54 PM

Quote:

I think the most important thing about a villian's motive is that the villian didn't start out evil.

The villain in one of my stories is like that. He didn't start evil, he was really a good wizard in training. He was also very handsome. Then he had an accident and blamed it on his friend. The accident left him with a horribly scarred face and he wasn't experienced enough in magic to fix it all the way. This led to his social life falling apart because he was so hateful and secretive, which in turn led him to "the dark side" in his efforts to fix his life, which eventually became getting revenge on his friend whom he believed was to blam for everything bad that happened to him.

galadriel · 02-27-2003, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Galenavar
The villain in one of my stories is like that. He didn't start evil, he was really a good wizard in training. He was also very handsome. Then he had an accident and blamed it on his friend. The accident left him with a horribly scarred face and he wasn't experienced enough in magic to fix it all the way. This led to his social life falling apart because he was so hateful and secretive, which in turn led him to "the dark side" in his efforts to fix his life, which eventually became getting revenge on his friend whom he believed was to blam for everything bad that happened to him.

I like it! It's a great backstory.

Gwaimir Windgem · 02-27-2003, 11:17 PM

I agree, quite good indeed. Especially if he's a tad bit (or more) vain.

Lief Erikson · 02-28-2003, 01:51 AM

Well, yah, but in my book, good characters have flaws too. The bad have flaws and so do the good, but the bad started out just like the good, only their flaws became emphasized. The way to turn a person to wickedness in books is to reach out to what is bad in him and bring it more to the surface, causing it to be the more dominant streak in him. The good in them, just like the good in normal good characters starts out in dominance, but because the individual is only human, they have character flaws.

Just like the way a person turns good can sometimes be the decreasing of the bad in them and the new dominance of the good. It's all a balance thing, in some cases like that.

So! Any favorite good characters, anyone? I know they tend to be a bit more boring than bad characters, frequently, so I'll expand on my statement. Better yet, how about good characters with FLAWS!?

(Or any characters, for that matter, that are in or pass through the gray area between good and evil?)

Gwaimir Windgem · 02-28-2003, 10:30 AM

Sounds like Raistlin Majere and Dalamar the Dark a bit.

Galenavar · 02-28-2003, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Well, yah, but in my book, good characters have flaws too

Mine too.

Quote:

but because the individual is only human, they have character flaws.

Unless they aren't human.

Quote:

It's all a balance thing

I agree. But sometimes it's fun to have a story with little balance and a lot of chaos. mwa ha ha...

Gwaimir Windgem · 02-28-2003, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Galenavar
Unless they aren't human.

That's what I was thinking!

Lief Erikson · 03-01-2003, 01:31 PM

Yes, you guys are right on that one

. I forgot to mention that possibility. In my book too, I have villains that aren't human. They're just less interesting so they aren't the first ones I think of. In my book, as a matter of a fact, my favorite character could well be the primary villain. That's primarily because he's so clever and I really love how he manipulates everything from behind the scenes. Rather similar to Palpatine actually, now that I think about it.

Galenavar · 03-01-2003, 06:08 PM

I find that sometimes a villain who is perfect and without flaws can be more interesting than a villain with flaws. It gives the hero a reason to doubt himself and say, "How in the heck am I supposed to beat this thing?" And, sometimes, perfection can be a flaw. It all depends on how perfection is defined.

Lief Erikson · 03-01-2003, 10:54 PM

Oh yes, I'm not opposed to villains being brilliant. Recall that I said my favorite character in my own book could well be the villain because he's so clever.

Elvellyn · 03-01-2003, 11:51 PM

I don't think of perfection as a flaw as much as I do pride.

Laurus Nobilis · 03-02-2003, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elvellyn
I don't think of perfection as a flaw as much as I do pride.

I think you're right- especially because pride could be a dangerous flaw. If the villain is too proud, he/she'll probably leave things unattended, or underestimate his/her opponents.

Interesting suggestions, everyone!

Lief Erikson · 03-02-2003, 04:10 PM

But one interesting thing of how perfection can be a flaw is that it can lead you to pride. When one gains great abilities in a field, one naturally becomes more at risk of becoming proud of those abilities. And that pride, as you pointed out , Laurus, can be a very dangerous flaw. I've used it as the flaw that defeats my villain in a book before.

***Earniel*** · 03-02-2003, 05:53 PM

Lief, you sound like a pro.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-02-2003, 06:09 PM

Yeah, I'll say!

You wouldn't happen to eleventy-one, would you?

Lief Erikson · 03-03-2003, 11:05 AM

No, but because of people like you I've got a lot of pride, so I know what I'm talking about

.

Silverstripe · 03-04-2003, 01:05 AM

*sigh*

One of the two books I wanted to do is probably going to have to be put off for a few years. If you want to know why (and the book's premise), PM me and I'll tell you, but I'm not going to get into it here.

However, I'm still working on the other one, and while we're on the subject of villains, I'll tell you about one of mine. She started the chain of events that leads to the main conflict in the story, but she's not precisely evil. Mistaken, and rather patronizing, but her most destructive act was actually one meant to help magical children. The problem is, my villain was an orphan who was abused in her childhood. Thus, she never truly understood "family," and she didn't realize how much it meant to children and their parents.

Lief Erikson · 03-04-2003, 01:23 AM

Background definitely can have an effect upon characters' tendencies toward evil. Children that have parents involved in drugs or violent behavior tend more frequently to grow up with such tendencies themselves. They don't look upon it as wrong. At that extremely young stage, they learn from their parents. That is why it is so important for children to be raised in good surroundings. Two of the main villains in The Uirlon Cord are evil because they were brought up that way and one of the main good guys still has trouble because of his background.

That's a realistic way of doing your villain, Silverstripe.

Galenavar · 03-04-2003, 12:55 PM

I think that everyone here has a lot of great ideas. I would love to read some of these stories!

I might have to "steal" some of this for my own stories...

TariCalmcacil · 03-04-2003, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FrodoFriend
What sort of techniques do you like to use? Narrating style, types of characters, figurative language, etc?

I have my own little thing going down. My first drafts of my writings are very informal, I really need to get a better way to write a first draft down... because i usually abbreviate things that shouldn't be and forget punciation... it's really a pain but when I write i just know part of the plot and then take it away to wherever it wants to go. Yeah...I've written probably around 50 pages of like that.

A good tip, from one who had to learn it the VERY HARD way, and still hasn't fixed it, is to SAVE YOUR WORK IN MORE THEN ONE PLACE! Really! Really do it! I lost about 30 pages of work that way (Lost a floppy. Only had it on floppy) >_< Not too smart.

I have this whole thing down for beta'ing. I'm a good beta... well, at least I like to think so with my little system going at least. it works like this, i read the piece as soon as I get it, just once through so I can get a feel for the plot and what's going on in the story and then I go through and edit it with RED (I use a different color with then the text is typed in) And if I edit a word I change the font color of the word infront of it and behind it so that it sticks out more and you can see more of how it went. Another thing that's important when beta'ing is keeping contact. You don't want to let the person down. I try to get everthing back before a week... and if I can't its probably best to send an email to them, giving yourself a reasonable deadline. If its short (2-3) pages except to spend 3-4 hours editing, maybe you want to take it in short pieces because if you do a whole chapter thats 20 pages long it could take a long time... but if you break it up in reasonable amounts (nothing ridicoulus like paragraph or liek that) Umm..

I write a lot, but lately I've practically lost everything. I have two Star Trek things I want to write before returning to Fantasy. Its partially because I have to retype a lot of my stories because I lost the disk that held them... and I am waiting until I get a new computer; one that likes floppies. Heh... so yeah

If anyone want sot chat about writing, or cares to help with my Star Trek fantasy thing, please email me! I love talking to people so if you just want to chat, I hope we can strike up a chat real easily. Thanks!

Tari

02-27-2003, 11:17 PM	#63
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	I agree, quite good indeed. Especially if he's a tad bit (or more) vain. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

02-28-2003, 01:51 AM	#64
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Well, yah, but in my book, good characters have flaws too. The bad have flaws and so do the good, but the bad started out just like the good, only their flaws became emphasized. The way to turn a person to wickedness in books is to reach out to what is bad in him and bring it more to the surface, causing it to be the more dominant streak in him. The good in them, just like the good in normal good characters starts out in dominance, but because the individual is only human, they have character flaws. Just like the way a person turns good can sometimes be the decreasing of the bad in them and the new dominance of the good. It's all a balance thing, in some cases like that. So! Any favorite good characters, anyone? I know they tend to be a bit more boring than bad characters, frequently, so I'll expand on my statement. Better yet, how about good characters with FLAWS!? (Or any characters, for that matter, that are in or pass through the gray area between good and evil?) Last edited by Lief Erikson : 02-28-2003 at 01:53 AM.

02-28-2003, 10:30 AM	#65
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Sounds like Raistlin Majere and Dalamar the Dark a bit. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-01-2003, 06:08 PM	#69
Galenavar Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WI Posts: 129	I find that sometimes a villain who is perfect and without flaws can be more interesting than a villain with flaws. It gives the hero a reason to doubt himself and say, "How in the heck am I supposed to beat this thing?" And, sometimes, perfection can be a flaw. It all depends on how perfection is defined. __________________ Galenavar Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo If there's no magic, there's no meaning.

03-01-2003, 11:51 PM	#71
Elvellyn The Redneck Elf Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: In a house Posts: 539	I don't think of perfection as a flaw as much as I do pride. __________________ Oliphants make great pets.

03-01-2003, 01:31 PM	#68
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Yes, you guys are right on that one . I forgot to mention that possibility. In my book too, I have villains that aren't human. They're just less interesting so they aren't the first ones I think of. In my book, as a matter of a fact, my favorite character could well be the primary villain. That's primarily because he's so clever and I really love how he manipulates everything from behind the scenes. Rather similar to Palpatine actually, now that I think about it.

03-01-2003, 10:54 PM	#70
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Oh yes, I'm not opposed to villains being brilliant. Recall that I said my favorite character in my own book could well be the villain because he's so clever.

03-02-2003, 04:10 PM	#73
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	But one interesting thing of how perfection can be a flaw is that it can lead you to pride. When one gains great abilities in a field, one naturally becomes more at risk of becoming proud of those abilities. And that pride, as you pointed out , Laurus, can be a very dangerous flaw. I've used it as the flaw that defeats my villain in a book before.

03-02-2003, 05:53 PM	#74
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Lief, you sound like a pro. __________________ We are not things.

03-02-2003, 06:09 PM	#75
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Yeah, I'll say! You wouldn't happen to eleventy-one, would you? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-03-2003, 11:05 AM	#76
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	No, but because of people like you I've got a lot of pride, so I know what I'm talking about .

03-04-2003, 01:05 AM	#77
Silverstripe Empress of the Writewraiths Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Running around somewhere inside my head. So what are YOU doing here?! Posts: 1,546	sigh One of the two books I wanted to do is probably going to have to be put off for a few years. If you want to know why (and the book's premise), PM me and I'll tell you, but I'm not going to get into it here. However, I'm still working on the other one, and while we're on the subject of villains, I'll tell you about one of mine. She started the chain of events that leads to the main conflict in the story, but she's not precisely evil. Mistaken, and rather patronizing, but her most destructive act was actually one meant to help magical children. The problem is, my villain was an orphan who was abused in her childhood. Thus, she never truly understood "family," and she didn't realize how much it meant to children and their parents.

03-04-2003, 01:23 AM	#78
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Background definitely can have an effect upon characters' tendencies toward evil. Children that have parents involved in drugs or violent behavior tend more frequently to grow up with such tendencies themselves. They don't look upon it as wrong. At that extremely young stage, they learn from their parents. That is why it is so important for children to be raised in good surroundings. Two of the main villains in The Uirlon Cord are evil because they were brought up that way and one of the main good guys still has trouble because of his background. That's a realistic way of doing your villain, Silverstripe.

03-04-2003, 12:55 PM	#79
Galenavar Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WI Posts: 129	I think that everyone here has a lot of great ideas. I would love to read some of these stories! I might have to "steal" some of this for my own stories... __________________ Galenavar Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo If there's no magic, there's no meaning.

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