Mel Gibson's Jesus movie

[brownjenkins]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
People are all in a tizzy because it has been rated R16 for gratuitous violence. The weird thing is that there are all these christians complaining, because they won't be able to take the kids... say what? *twitch*

are children not allowed to go to movies with this rating even with a parent where you live... or do you just mean the don't want to bring their kids to something that is too real?

considering the subject matter however... it is kind of funny that it would be labelled as "gratuitous"

[BeardofPants]

Yes, if it is R16, you can't take kids with you. I think you can take under-agers with parents consent, but not children. I find it ironic, since it's usually the OTHER way 'round - they're usually uptight about 'gratuitous violence'. Heh.

[BeardofPants]

I have seen it. I need time to process it though, before I post my thoughts. I can tell you this much: if I had a child, I damned well wouldn't take it to see this.

[Lizra]

So will this take pink eggs and purple bunnies out of Easter?

[brownjenkins]

did anyone say when the left the movie:

"what a terrible ending... i kept thinking the apostles would come back and save him"

[Falagar]

*notes line*

I'll use that one when I've seen it.

[Radagast The Brown]

I heard a discussion in the radio this morning about the movie.
A professor for Christian History was talking about the murder of Jesus. He said that the opinion today, agreed by most professors (not necessarily Jewish), about the murder is that the jews did tell the Romans about Jesus but did not want him to be crusified.

Originally posted by Bombadillo
I guess so, but that would be rather pointless to bring up against a movie. It sounds like their problem is with the entire Christian religion, which I can understand. But then the movie is about Christianity, so they'd of course have some objections to it. I just don't think it's a big deal. I didn't start any riot after watching Prince of Egypt (though that's a poor example; Christians believe in that story too...).

It's not the same at all, because in the story of Jesus the blame is on the jews, while in the story of us going out of Egypt the Christianity didin't exist, and no one was blamed of murder. And yes, from what I heard in the newspaper and radio the movie emphasized the jewish part in the murder.

Originally posted by GrayMouser
Let me expand- I would assume that most Jews neither know nor particularly care about the details of the New Testament; but that they do know and care very much about this particular issue- " the Jews killed Christ" - because of the suffering they have undergone at the hands of Christians based on this point.

Yes, I knew that 'the Jews killed Jesus' before learning about it in history class. (my mom told me, I can't rmember when. We were watching TV though)

I also don't know anything about the New Testament except that it is the book of christianity, with the Bible. I know there are stories there about hell and heaven, which can't be found in the Bible.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
I also don't know anything about the New Testament except that it is the book of christianity, with the Bible. I know there are stories there about hell and heaven, which can't be found in the Bible.

Rad, the New Testament is a collection of books, most originally letters, written by early followers of Jesus, who believed that He was the promised Messiah. By those accounts, the Jewish leadership of the day did not accept Jesus' claims about himself. It contains (4) accounts of 'the gospel' - or the life of Jesus, by authors; Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Then there is (1) account of the early church in the years after Jesus (the 'Book of Acts' - also attributed to Luke). Following this are (21) 'epistles' - letters written by various leaders of the early church either to a specific group of believers in Jesus or to all believers in Jesus. The first of these is called 'Romans' because it was written to the 'church' that met in Rome... this one does a nice job of explaining basic Christian doctrine (many of the others 'fill in the gaps' - but are often addressing specific issues - 'Romans' gives a nice general overall view). Romans, like over half of these epistles, was written by Paul, who came to believe in Jesus as recounted in Acts 9 - when he was called 'Saul' (I believe 'Paul' was either the Greek or Latin version of his name 'Saul'). Following the epistles is (1) mysterious prophetic book called 'Revelations' or 'The Revelation of Saint John'. That makes (27) books in all.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Valandil
Rad, the New Testament is a collection of books, most originally letters, written by early followers of Jesus, who believed that He was the promised Messiah. By those accounts, the Jewish leadership of the day did not accept Jesus' claims about himself. It contains (4) accounts of 'the gospel' - or the life of Jesus, by authors; Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Then there is (1) account of the early church in the years after Jesus (the 'Book of Acts' - also attributed to Luke). Following this are (21) 'epistles' - letters written by various leaders of the early church either to a specific group of believers in Jesus or to all believers in Jesus. The first of these is called 'Romans' because it was written to the 'church' that met in Rome... this one does a nice job of explaining basic Christian doctrine (many of the others 'fill in the gaps' - but are often addressing specific issues - 'Romans' gives a nice general overall view). Romans, like over half of these epistles, was written by Paul, who came to believe in Jesus as recounted in Acts 9 - when he was called 'Saul' (I believe 'Paul' was either the Greek or Latin version of his name 'Saul'). Following the epistles is (1) mysterious prophetic book called 'Revelations' or 'The Revelation of Saint John'. That makes (27) books in all.

Yes, I know Jesus believed he's the Messiah. And we (jews) suppose to still wait for him.

You know, I would probably not remember all that - unless I'd read it myself (which is possible of course, I've just never saw the New Testament in any book store I've ever been in, so I think I would have to read it in English, and buy it in a foreign English-speaking country, and that would probably be hard, wouldn't it?). But thank you! I'd try to rmemeber as much as I can of that.

I don't get one thing - what do Christians believe in? Except god, that is; about what would happen.
We (jews) believe the Messiah will come, and in that day all the 'bad' people would be punished. And then - 'the end of the days' (as I see in my dictionary) - where the world will be pure good. (from the religious view, not mine; I don't really believe that) So if Jesus is the Messiah - shouldn't all that be done already?

[dawningoftime]

To understand the full impact of Jesus' and death, you have to understand Jewish thinking and the social structure of the time. Jesus rode in on a donkey which then was considered a luxury item and only something a king would ride upon. The palm branches and the shouting of "Hosanna" that was the symbol and the battle cry of the zelots. When he came into Jerusalam with that kind of the welcoming nautrally that made the high priests nervous because it threatened the very structure of power that had been in place at that particular moment. The high priests had wanted to kill him at various times. Scripture makes that very clear.

John 5:18
18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

In end it was only a handful of Jews that wanted Jesus dead, but the Jews could not carry it out because Rome was in control, therefore the High Priests had to go through Roman officials.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
Yes, I know Jesus believed he's the Messiah. And we (jews) suppose to still wait for him.

You know, I would probably not remember all that - unless I'd read it myself (which is possible of course, I've just never saw the New Testament in any book store I've ever been in, so I think I would have to read it in English, and buy it in a foreign English-speaking country, and that would probably be hard, wouldn't it?). But thank you! I'd try to rmemeber as much as I can of that.

I don't get one thing - what do Christians believe in? Except god, that is; about what would happen.
We (jews) believe the Messiah will come, and in that day all the 'bad' people would be punished. And then - 'the end of the days' (as I see in my dictionary) - where the world will be pure good. (from the religious view, not mine; I don't really believe that) So if Jesus is the Messiah - shouldn't all that be done already?

Jesus came to save us from eternal Death. As we (christians) believe that Jesus is God, he had to die so that when we eventually die b/c God Himself died it wouldn't be the end of everything. Do I make any sense? sometimes I confuse myself anyways....what happens when Jesus returns is debatable abong the different denominations of Christianity. some believe that the good will dwell forever with Him on this earth while the bad are sent to hell. Others believe that this world will end and the good will be with Him in Heaven while the bad are either sent to hell or destroyed altogether. Eschatology has always been an interest of mine.

[Bombadillo]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
I heard a discussion in the radio this morning about the movie.
A professor for Christian History was talking about the murder of Jesus. He said that the opinion today, agreed by most professors (not necessarily Jewish), about the murder is that the jews did tell the Romans about Jesus but did not want him to be crusified.

It's not the same at all, because in the story of Jesus the blame is on the jews, while in the story of us going out of Egypt the Christianity didin't exist, and no one was blamed of murder. And yes, from what I heard in the newspaper and radio the movie emphasized the jewish part in the murder.
----
Yes, I knew that 'the Jews killed Jesus' before learning about it in history class. (my mom told me, I can't rmember when. We were watching TV though)

I also don't know anything about the New Testament except that it is the book of christianity, with the Bible. I know there are stories there about hell and heaven, which can't be found in the Bible.

I didn't mean any offense by it. But that was the argument of two people who I saw on TV, and I found it foolish of those two to blast Mel so much for the beliefs of an entire religion. Ha... I just realised the irony in this.

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
Yes, I know Jesus believed he's the Messiah. And we (jews) suppose to still wait for him.

You know, I would probably not remember all that - unless I'd read it myself (which is possible of course, I've just never saw the New Testament in any book store I've ever been in, so I think I would have to read it in English, and buy it in a foreign English-speaking country, and that would probably be hard, wouldn't it?). But thank you! I'd try to rmemeber as much as I can of that.

I don't get one thing - what do Christians believe in? Except god, that is; about what would happen.
We (jews) believe the Messiah will come, and in that day all the 'bad' people would be punished. And then - 'the end of the days' (as I see in my dictionary) - where the world will be pure good. (from the religious view, not mine; I don't really believe that) So if Jesus is the Messiah - shouldn't all that be done already?

Close. We believe that he came and 'saved' us already by educating people back then, basically on how to be good and giving God as a bit of motivation. And we believe that he will come again eventually with the apocolypse, and judge everyone to Heaven or Hell, at which point the earth wll be 'remade' somehow but I don't really understand that little part.

There's an online Bible here. Impossible to read cover to cover from a screen, but good for reference if you know what book you're looking for. (Revelations is about Jesus' return.)

[Radagast The Brown]

Ok - this is my translation to what written in the paper today, in a column:

Is Mel Gibson's film anti-semitic? Tendentious? Wanting to instigate? At least on the basis of examining a few of the ingredients - the answer is postitive.
Examples. In the scene that occurs in the Temple in Jerusalem 4 preists can be seen in one of the halls, wearing glorious robes and supervising the carpentry works of the Jewish workers. They make a wooden crucifix, which Jesus soon be crusified on.
By an evidence of the film makers, in interviews to the media, the film is precisely trustee to the history and is totally based on the gospel, that in their testimonies which are trustful. But the scene of the crucifix creation in the Temple, that casts more responsebilty on the Jews about the murder of Jesus, is not mentioned at all in the gospel's words.
Where did Gibson brought this idea from? He read about it in the book of Anna Catherina the German, catholic mystican monk from the 18th century, that her phenomenons that were written in a jewish-hatred documents and were, during many years, a basis to anti-semitic sermons in many churches in Europe....

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
Jesus came to save us from eternal Death. As we (christians) believe that Jesus is God, he had to die so that when we eventually die b/c God Himself died it wouldn't be the end of everything. Do I make any sense? sometimes I confuse myself anyways....what happens when Jesus returns is debatable abong the different denominations of Christianity. some believe that the good will dwell forever with Him on this earth while the bad are sent to hell. Others believe that this world will end and the good will be with Him in Heaven while the bad are either sent to hell or destroyed altogether. Eschatology has always been an interest of mine.

Yeah, I really didn't understand the first part. (very confusing)
Oh - I see. You don't know when, but you know Jesus will return, and wait for him like we wait for the Messiah?

Originally posted by Bombadillo
I didn't mean any offense by it. But that was the argument of two people who I saw on TV, and I found it foolish of those two to blast Mel so much for the beliefs of an entire religion. Ha... I just realised the irony in this.


Close. We believe that he came and 'saved' us already by educating people back then, basically on how to be good and giving God as a bit of motivation. And we believe that he will come again eventually with the apocolypse, and judge everyone to Heaven or Hell, at which point the earth wll be 'remade' somehow but I don't really understand that little part.

There's an online Bible here. Impossible to read cover to cover from a screen, but good for reference if you know what book you're looking for. (Revelations is about Jesus' return.)

Not offenced - sorry if I sounded like that. Just wanted to clear it up.

Hmm... heard about it. Thanks.
Yes. Thanks for the site (although I can find it useful - I doubt I'd use it alot ).

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown

Yeah, I really didn't understand the first part. (very confusing)
Oh - I see. You don't know when, but you know Jesus will return, and wait for him like we wait for the Messiah?

Yes, we await the re-return of the Messiah (Jesus). no one knows when He will come however, although several denominations have tried to predict it.

basically death isn't natural or part of God's plan...it is a result of Adam a d Eve chosing not o follow God's law...in order to save us and bring us back to Him, God Himself had to go through the unnatrual process of death and go back to HEaven.

[BeardofPants]

Radagast, I would agree with you in a general sense regarding anti-semitism, in that Gibson seems to place the blame squarely on the jews, taking it away from the Romans. The proconsul of the region is depicted in the movie as benevolent, when in actual fact, historical evidence suggests that he was anything but.

[Millane]

Saw it a few days back and i thought it was awesome, it certainly makes you respect the man a bit more and the casting was awesome, Peter was awesome ****ing them roman scum over with his bare hands WOOOO!... some damn old people wouldnt shuttup behind me, at the start it was "yeah" "mmmm" to everything jesus said, then as soon as Jesus was caught (about 5 minutes in) the crying started and went all the way through until there were the pictures of him just hanging on the cross then there crying was mixed with "WOW" i was waiting for the "lets hear it for JESUS!!!" to start overall though thought it was a good movie, im just lucky it was the third showing and not the first couldnt stand all the wows

[dawningoftime]

I just read this article and I think that it's a good thing to read if you're going to go see it:

Eyes Wide Open, Mind Fully Enganged: Having Passion about "The Passion"

[mithrand1r]

I have just viewed the movie.

I think the movie did an excellent portrayal of the suffering that Jesus suffered during the hours leading up to his crucifixion. I would give the film a 3 to 3-1/2 stars out of four.

The film is about 2 hours, 7 minutes but I did not realize the time pass. The film was entirely in foreign languages (I think Aramaic and Latin ) with subtitling.

I do not think that the film is anti-semetic.

There were a wide spectrum of people used in the film: pretty, average, ugly, clean, bad teeth, good teeth, well dressed, poorly dressed, and people that probably could have used a bath. Basically what one might expect to find of people in ancient roman times.

The people in the upper strata of society looked better (in general) than the commoners.

I do not know about big noses, that I have heard mentioned on radio, since to me there was a variety of faces with a variety of noses. None of the noses appeared to be what I would consider big.

There were some areas where poetic licsense was used, but I think the movie did a good job in portraying events from the bible. Some scenes I did not quite understand.

The visual aspect and presentation of the film is excellent. There was a good use of flashbacks in the film without losing any tempo.

I am paraphrasing here, but The line about "Jesus' blood being on us and our children" was not in the film. (At least it was not subtitled. If it was spoken in a foreign language, I did not understand it.) I heard this mentioned on the radio, so I am wondering if this was edited out of the film I saw. (or may be I missed the text).

The only people that were portrayed as villians were some of the Jewish leaders, most of the Jewish soldiers that captured Jesus, most of the Roman soldiers, one of the condemned men crucified with Jesus, and Pontius Pilate.

I would have like the film better if it focused some more on the resurection of Jesus, but since the film is titled "Passion" I can live with what was covered

This film is not for anyone squeemish about blood. There is plenty of blood shown in this movie. I could hear people sobbing in the theatre. There were many scenes that I was wincing at the savage treatment shown to Jesus. At a few points my eyes watered up.

I am a Christian, so you may take my opinion for what it is worth.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by mithrand1r
The film is about 2 hours, 7 minutes but I did not realize the time pass. The film was entirely in foreign languages (I think Aramaic and Latin ) with subtitling.

I do not think that the film is anti-semetic.

Aramaic and Greek, I believe.

I don't think it's entirely anti-semitic, but I do think it places WAY too much blame at the feet of the jews. It makes the Romans (Gentiles or whatever) look positively guilt-free (which we know is not the case).

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Aramaic and Greek, I believe.

I think it was Aramiac and Latin....