Will you see it again? - Page 4

***Earniel*** · 03-30-2002, 08:56 PM

Tano! Are you trying to drive me over the edge!?! I still have to wait a bloody week before the trailer!! GGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!

BeardofPants · 03-31-2002, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TinuvielChild
ohhhh, now i really have to go see it at least 3 more times!! just for the trailer! (well also for the movie, duh! ) and BeardofPants, don't you dare insult the soundtrack!!! i am listening to that holiest of CDs at this very moment, and if you DARE to insult it one more time, you may find the tip of an elven arrow in front of your face!!

Mumble mumble mumble *cough* soundtrack* cough* mumble mumble *cough* generic *cough*

bropous · 03-31-2002, 03:16 AM

Sorry, Beard of Pants, can't go along with you on that one. "LotR" has a GREAT soundtrack. What the heck do ya want: recycled crap like "Moulin Spooge"???

BeardofPants · 03-31-2002, 04:11 AM

Gah! It sounded like every OTHER adventure movie soundtrack, no originality what so ever. Granted Enya was good, but the rest?

jerseydevil · 03-31-2002, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
I didn't like the movie THAT much when it came out: now you're telling me I have to go see it again to see the trailer? Dang. I think I'll wait til it's posted on the Net somewhere.

Wow there may be an LOTR fan out there that liked it less than me.

Although I did think it was an okay movie - just not as great as all the other fans are making it out to be. The movie had some serious problems for me to completely think that it even came close to living up to The Lord of the Rings.

And I agree about the soundtrack - I didn't think it was anything spectacular. It was cool. The most memorable piece for me in the soundtrack was the Isengard scene where they do the fly in shot down into the canyon of Isengard (which was also one of my favorite scenes). Other than that it doesn't stick that much in my mind. I think I've only listened to my soundtrack CD twice.

BeardofPants · 03-31-2002, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerseydevil

Wow there may be an LOTR fan out there that liked it less than me. Although I did think it was an okay movie - just not as great as all the other fans are making it out to be. The movie had some serious problems for me to completely think that it even came close to living up to The Lord of the Rings.

And I agree about the soundtrack - I didn't think it was anything spectacular. It was cool. The most memorable piece for me in the soundtrack was the Isengard scene where they do the fly in shot down into the canyon of Isengard (which was also one of my favorite scenes). Other than that it doesn't stick that much in my mind. I think I've only listened to my soundtrack CD twice.

I'll bet you don't have nearly as many reasons as I do... and I refuse to buy the soundtrack!

*Arwen
*Galadriels scary bit.
*Bilbos scary bit.
* Saruman and Gandalf's fight.
* Moria (wasn't as scary as the book)
* "And you have my axe"????
* "If you want him...."?????
* Soundtrack
* The lack of conveyance of time or distance....
* Aragorn and Legolas taking over the movie (as opposed from being about the hobbits, from the hobbit point of view)
* Shift of focus from the hobbits, to the humans.
* Making Frodo out to be more wussy than he was in the book (the ford, weathertop)
* Weathertop fighting scene, and oh wait, every other fight scene....
* Shift away from the journey, to a movie about Aragorn fighting....

There's more, but that's all I can think of right now. On the plus side, Ian was well cast as Gandalf, as was Elijah Woods, and the hobbits.

* Oh, and the feet weren't hairy enough (or so I have it, on good source).
* Oh, and Glorfindel??
* Tom Bombadil
* Where's the conspiracy of Merry & Pippin to go with frodo????

Entlover · 03-31-2002, 04:53 AM

I keep forgetting to say Happy Birthday, Tanoliel.

So BeardofPants, you don't like the movie much and you dislike the CD, so what are you hanging around this thread for? There's not enough time in the universe for me to spend dissing all the movies I can't stand. . . My guess is you like the LotR and find PJs attempts to recreate it too feeble. . . but anybody's would be. Even if you dislike the results, you have to admit he made a monumental effort.

The soundtrack is great. . . but maybe it only appeals to a certain type of music-lover (i.e. one with little experience in classical music, like me)

jerseydevil · 03-31-2002, 05:02 AM

Well you named most of the reasons I didn't care for the movie as much. Although I didn't like Jackson's changes with Merry, Pippin or Gandalf. I think I would have liked Ian McKellen as Gandalf if Jackson didn't have him acting so stupid, ie, hitting his head on the chandler and beam, whimpering behind Saruman when he was talking about the Ring, trying to push the doors of MOria inward when he knew the only opened outward. Same goes for Merry and Pippin - they could barely speak in the beginning of the movie except in child-speak they seemed so dumb.

I definitely agree that the conspiracy thing was a major part that was left out. It showed that Pippin and Merry went on the journey to stand by the side of their friend.

I had a friend tell me that he thought that the humans should have played more of a role. He didn't think Frodo should have been the one that got the Ring - he thought the Ring should have just been given to Boromir. Of course he didn't read the books - so he doesn't have all the background information that Jackson left out in place of action scenes.

The only two things out of your list that I disagree with is Tom Bombadil and Glorfindel. I would have liked to have seen the Old Forest and maybe some of Bombadil - but they coudldn't show the whole Tom Bomabadil and Goldberry part I think. Glorfindel is important to the History of Middle Earth - but not as important to Lord of the Rings - so he was expendable. BUT just because Glorfindel was expendable does not mean that the Flight to the Ford scene had to be butchered the way it was by Arwen.

In terms of Moria - Jackson of course went to for the nonstop action sequences - instead of the suspense the book had. In the book there weren't any corpses lying around and the Troll never made it past the door.

Saruman and Gandalfs fight was laughable.

Galadriel lit up - not even from Nenya though - so the only time you see that she has one of the rings is in the very beginning. The whole special effects thing for Galadriel was really bad.
You left one thing out though - Aragorn choosing exile and that Gondor had no one to rally behind because he had chosen a different path. Jackson completely destoryed Aragorn's character in FOTR - hopefully he'll redeem himself in TT and RotK.

jerseydevil · 03-31-2002, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Entlover

Even if you dislike the results, you have to admit he made a monumental effort.

The soundtrack is great. . . but maybe it only appeals to a certain type of music-lover (i.e. one with little experience in classical music, like me)

Well just because he made an effort - the movie has a lot to be desired to match up to LOTR. In my opinion he didn't succeed at all of bringing Lord of the Rings to the screen - he turned it into more of an action movie. He did succeed in bringing Middle Earth to life - but he left the characters behind.

I like classical music - so the music I don't have a problem with. But I do agree that I don't think it stands out as anything spectacular.

TinuvielChild · 03-31-2002, 03:54 PM

ok, jerseydevil and BeardofPants, why don't you go create your own thread for dissing the movie? and leave the rest of us rabid fans in peace??

please?????

jerseydevil · 03-31-2002, 04:02 PM

Because threads are for open discussion - not one opinion. Life would be boring if everyone thought the same.

TinuvielChild · 03-31-2002, 04:08 PM

hmph.

***Earniel*** · 03-31-2002, 06:21 PM

As much as I hate being all -what's the word, nitpicky?- I'll help TC out here. There are other more suitable threads for giving an opinion on the movie. Although I had to admit you had some valid arguments.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 03-31-2002, 06:32 PM

How about more than one opinion on how it's really good?

No, we each have our own opinions, and should be able to share them. Imagine how boring entmoot would be if we all agreed about everything!

jerseydevil · 03-31-2002, 06:34 PM

Well to keep this on topic - I did go again to see it for the TT trailer. But that's the last time unless I can convince my cousins to go.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 03-31-2002, 06:36 PM

Well? What did you think? About the trailer, I mean.

I'm going to try for #8 on Thursday...some of my friends still need to see the trailer!

BeardofPants · 03-31-2002, 07:19 PM

I'm hoping that TT and ROTK will manage to bring more hobbit characterisation to it, and less *battles with Aragorn in it*.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 03-31-2002, 08:27 PM

From what I could tell in the trailer (which isn't much, I know!), Merry and Pippin do get a little more serious. . .They DID have the leaf broach thing!

TinuvielChild · 03-31-2002, 08:30 PM

ok, i'll relent, i do agree with most of what jerseydevil and BeardofPants are saying, but i still love the movie! (and the soundtrack...let's agree to disagree on that, ok guys?

) i really hated the "wussification" of Frodo and the creation of "Super-Arwen", and there were too many Aragorn-battles, but give PJ some credit, ok?? he managed to successfully pull off a movie version of the Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring and did a darn good job of it, ok???

and yeah, Entmoot would be pretty bloody boring without different opinions!

(ok, listening to one of my fave parts on the soundtrack, the part with the moth and zooming down Orthanc, totally awesome

)

bropous · 04-01-2002, 01:58 PM

Well, it's old ground, we've covered all this already, but let's look at this aspect:

"too many Aragorn battles"?

Peter Jackson included exactly the right number of "aragorn battles". Actually, there were only three. One could argue Aragorn fought more in the books than in the films; film is a visualk medium, books are a mental medium. A book may say simply that Gimli or Legolas lopped off forty-two heads each; in a film, you have to SHOW the battle to inform the audience.

And well, BoP, you'll just HATE The Two Towers and Return of the King, because if you recall from the books, the number of battles featuring Aragorn will simply increase in the next two films. Return of the King you might as well skip altogether, because Aragorn will be kicking hiney left and right pretty much all of the film.

YES. There ARE weak points in the film. But someone said it correctly, this really isn't the thread to tear the film apart, there actually was a thread DEVOTED to ripping the film. Maybe jd and BoP could revive that thread and get their remaining angst about Peter Jackson and his audacity to even touch a Tolkien book sufficiently vented wihtout having to listen to us who really love the film.

Saw it for the eleventh time Sat nite, second time with the trailer. The criticisms I have seen posted above are inflated.

03-30-2002, 08:56 PM	#61
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Tano! Are you trying to drive me over the edge!?! I still have to wait a bloody week before the trailer!! GGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!! __________________ We are not things.

03-31-2002, 03:16 AM	#63
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Sorry, Beard of Pants, can't go along with you on that one. "LotR" has a GREAT soundtrack. What the heck do ya want: recycled crap like "Moulin Spooge"??? __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

03-31-2002, 04:11 AM	#64
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Gah! It sounded like every OTHER adventure movie soundtrack, no originality what so ever. Granted Enya was good, but the rest? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

03-31-2002, 05:02 AM	#68
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	Well you named most of the reasons I didn't care for the movie as much. Although I didn't like Jackson's changes with Merry, Pippin or Gandalf. I think I would have liked Ian McKellen as Gandalf if Jackson didn't have him acting so stupid, ie, hitting his head on the chandler and beam, whimpering behind Saruman when he was talking about the Ring, trying to push the doors of MOria inward when he knew the only opened outward. Same goes for Merry and Pippin - they could barely speak in the beginning of the movie except in child-speak they seemed so dumb. I definitely agree that the conspiracy thing was a major part that was left out. It showed that Pippin and Merry went on the journey to stand by the side of their friend. I had a friend tell me that he thought that the humans should have played more of a role. He didn't think Frodo should have been the one that got the Ring - he thought the Ring should have just been given to Boromir. Of course he didn't read the books - so he doesn't have all the background information that Jackson left out in place of action scenes. The only two things out of your list that I disagree with is Tom Bombadil and Glorfindel. I would have liked to have seen the Old Forest and maybe some of Bombadil - but they coudldn't show the whole Tom Bomabadil and Goldberry part I think. Glorfindel is important to the History of Middle Earth - but not as important to Lord of the Rings - so he was expendable. BUT just because Glorfindel was expendable does not mean that the Flight to the Ford scene had to be butchered the way it was by Arwen. In terms of Moria - Jackson of course went to for the nonstop action sequences - instead of the suspense the book had. In the book there weren't any corpses lying around and the Troll never made it past the door. Saruman and Gandalfs fight was laughable. Galadriel lit up - not even from Nenya though - so the only time you see that she has one of the rings is in the very beginning. The whole special effects thing for Galadriel was really bad. You left one thing out though - Aragorn choosing exile and that Gondor had no one to rally behind because he had chosen a different path. Jackson completely destoryed Aragorn's character in FOTR - hopefully he'll redeem himself in TT and RotK. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 03-31-2002 at 05:12 AM.

03-31-2002, 03:54 PM	#70
TinuvielChild Padawan Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Barony of Carolingia Posts: 2,176	ok, jerseydevil and BeardofPants, why don't you go create your own thread for dissing the movie? and leave the rest of us rabid fans in peace?? please????? __________________ There are only four questions of value in life: What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for? What is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same: ONLY LOVE. Dance as though nobody's watching. Sing as though nobody's listening. Dream as though you'll live forever. Live as though you'll die tomorrow. EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO and proud! FRODO LIVES!!!!!

03-31-2002, 04:53 AM	#67
Entlover Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 463	I keep forgetting to say Happy Birthday, Tanoliel. So BeardofPants, you don't like the movie much and you dislike the CD, so what are you hanging around this thread for? There's not enough time in the universe for me to spend dissing all the movies I can't stand. . . My guess is you like the LotR and find PJs attempts to recreate it too feeble. . . but anybody's would be. Even if you dislike the results, you have to admit he made a monumental effort. The soundtrack is great. . . but maybe it only appeals to a certain type of music-lover (i.e. one with little experience in classical music, like me)

03-31-2002, 04:02 PM	#71
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	Because threads are for open discussion - not one opinion. Life would be boring if everyone thought the same. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

03-31-2002, 04:08 PM	#72
TinuvielChild Padawan Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Barony of Carolingia Posts: 2,176	hmph. __________________ There are only four questions of value in life: What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for? What is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same: ONLY LOVE. Dance as though nobody's watching. Sing as though nobody's listening. Dream as though you'll live forever. Live as though you'll die tomorrow. EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO and proud! FRODO LIVES!!!!!

03-31-2002, 06:21 PM	#73
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	As much as I hate being all -what's the word, nitpicky?- I'll help TC out here. There are other more suitable threads for giving an opinion on the movie. Although I had to admit you had some valid arguments. __________________ We are not things.

03-31-2002, 06:32 PM	#74
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	How about more than one opinion on how it's really good? No, we each have our own opinions, and should be able to share them. Imagine how boring entmoot would be if we all agreed about everything! __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

03-31-2002, 06:34 PM	#75
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	Well to keep this on topic - I did go again to see it for the TT trailer. But that's the last time unless I can convince my cousins to go. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

03-31-2002, 06:36 PM	#76
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Well? What did you think? About the trailer, I mean. I'm going to try for #8 on Thursday...some of my friends still need to see the trailer! __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

03-31-2002, 07:19 PM	#77
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	I'm hoping that TT and ROTK will manage to bring more hobbit characterisation to it, and less battles with Aragorn in it. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

03-31-2002, 08:27 PM	#78
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	From what I could tell in the trailer (which isn't much, I know!), Merry and Pippin do get a little more serious. . .They DID have the leaf broach thing! __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

03-31-2002, 08:30 PM	#79
TinuvielChild Padawan Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Barony of Carolingia Posts: 2,176	ok, i'll relent, i do agree with most of what jerseydevil and BeardofPants are saying, but i still love the movie! (and the soundtrack...let's agree to disagree on that, ok guys? ) i really hated the "wussification" of Frodo and the creation of "Super-Arwen", and there were too many Aragorn-battles, but give PJ some credit, ok?? he managed to successfully pull off a movie version of the Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring and did a darn good job of it, ok??? and yeah, Entmoot would be pretty bloody boring without different opinions! (ok, listening to one of my fave parts on the soundtrack, the part with the moth and zooming down Orthanc, totally awesome ) __________________ There are only four questions of value in life: What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for? What is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same: ONLY LOVE. Dance as though nobody's watching. Sing as though nobody's listening. Dream as though you'll live forever. Live as though you'll die tomorrow. EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO and proud! FRODO LIVES!!!!!

04-01-2002, 01:58 PM	#80
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Well, it's old ground, we've covered all this already, but let's look at this aspect: "too many Aragorn battles"? Peter Jackson included exactly the right number of "aragorn battles". Actually, there were only three. One could argue Aragorn fought more in the books than in the films; film is a visualk medium, books are a mental medium. A book may say simply that Gimli or Legolas lopped off forty-two heads each; in a film, you have to SHOW the battle to inform the audience. And well, BoP, you'll just HATE The Two Towers and Return of the King, because if you recall from the books, the number of battles featuring Aragorn will simply increase in the next two films. Return of the King you might as well skip altogether, because Aragorn will be kicking hiney left and right pretty much all of the film. YES. There ARE weak points in the film. But someone said it correctly, this really isn't the thread to tear the film apart, there actually was a thread DEVOTED to ripping the film. Maybe jd and BoP could revive that thread and get their remaining angst about Peter Jackson and his audacity to even touch a Tolkien book sufficiently vented wihtout having to listen to us who really love the film. Saw it for the eleventh time Sat nite, second time with the trailer. The criticisms I have seen posted above are inflated. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.