My English teacher has never read tLotR! - Page 4

Losttaliel · 12-01-2001, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bacchus
A couple of buddies of mine got it for me as a souvenir from Europe. It's a good way to polish language skills. (Not that my French is very good)

You CAN read it? Wow. I couldn't read anything in french to save my life; I can't say anything other than "Do you speak enlgish"! AND I've been over there (The food is great; the place is alright, the language is terrible!).

Bacchus · 12-01-2001, 05:49 PM

well... I can muddle my way through, or I could a few years ago anyway. It does help that I've read it in English many times.

Losttaliel · 12-01-2001, 05:55 PM

Well, I suppose that would explin it! Reading it and reading the english one... Though the grammer in the french one is weird. Or should be, anyhow. :-)

Bacchus · 12-01-2001, 06:04 PM

The grammar and sentence structure in French is different, of course, but my major difficulties with the language are in vocabulary. Since I already have a pretty good idea what is going to happen, and I understand French grammar rules (to an extent, anyway), I can usually deduce the French vocabulary with which I am unfamiliar. I don't have any illusions that this makes me fluent, however.

arynetrek · 12-06-2001, 02:02 AM

where did you find a Lithuanian class? are you living in Lithuania & taking it as an "our country's literature" class? or do you live somewhere that they offer the language as an elective?

the Tolkien class at Rice -
when i was a senior in HS Rice kept sending me information & packets & nearly begged me to apply - i didn't mostly because i needed to take a break from school & knew that when i did go back i'd have to get out of TX, but there was a part of my mind that kept telling me "apply, there's something there for you..." i guess that class was calling to me - unfortunately the school i'm in now doesn't have a fantasy-based lit class, but i'm in an art school that is *NOT* known for its academics.

maybe a Spanish LotR would help me relearn the language - or maybe i should go to the Spanish forum here & make a fool out of myself...

aryne *

Ace · 12-06-2001, 06:43 AM

Alright, you two break it up. Tolkien originally wrote the Hobbit as a children's story and he was subsequently inspired to write LOTR, not because he loved language, though his love of language is apparent and certainly aids his writing. Receiving Oxford's highest award for Philology, not LOTR says something.

As for English, it is worthwhile to all of you who says it isn't, if you love Tolkien and haven't read Milton or Dante or Spencer is to read Tolkien and not know where the roots are. LOTR is an epic, and in my opinion and many others a great one. Proudly carrying the tradition of "Paradise Lost". English teachers who have not read it, they suck, all that I have had that are worth their salt have read them.

"If the choice be mine, I say, we march!"

Ace · 12-06-2001, 06:45 AM

"You two break it up" was directed to Kirinski54 and Ghost of Tolkien

Kirinki54 · 12-06-2001, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ace
"You two break it up" was directed to Kirinski54 and Ghost of Tolkien

My dear Ace, how far can it be broken up? My last post was a month ago!

Wayfarer · 12-06-2001, 05:54 PM

Well... Stop it anyway!

Ace · 12-06-2001, 10:04 PM

Oops, my mistake.

Legolas · 12-09-2001, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arynetrek
where did you find a Lithuanian class? are you living in Lithuania & taking it as an "our country's literature" class? or do you live somewhere that they offer the language as an elective?

I live in Lithuania, yes. I was talking about my literature class, where we study the literature of whole world, not only Lithuania.

Well, and there is a talk about French here... Moi, je parle francais, oui. Does any of you know how is the ring's inscription translated in French?
The word-by-word translation of the inscription from Lithuanian would be: "This ring has all the power,/ he can the widely spreaded rings/ find, gather and with the dark will/ enchained connect in the Dark Mordor". As you see, it's very different from the original inscription, and this was made only to make rhyme. So does French have a different, or a word-by-word translation?

crow · 12-27-2001, 07:23 PM

Ghost of Tolkien, I really like what you posted. I have not yet fully absorbed what you wrote and I'm not sure if I agree with all, or any, of your ideas. It was witty, though. That's always endearing to me.

Gildor · 12-27-2001, 10:35 PM

Do not despair. I am a teacher, and oddly enough, I have read Lord of the Rings many times. It is on my reading list and I encourage students to read it. True, not everyone enjoys every genre, but I have yet to find someone who actually read the book and didn't like it.

p.s. I also like Pride and Prejudice, Hamlet, Count of Monte Cristo, The "Mutiny on the Bounty" Trilogy and many many more. (trashy romance novels excluded) In defense of what your teachers teach, however, I have to say that sometimes they have no choice. The scope and sequence, textbook availability, etc. dictates their lesson plans. When I taught English, however, I had much more leeway in the matter. As long as it was in our literature book or grammar or spelling or vocabulary....I could teach it.

There are many wonderful books in this world. Maybe you will be the ones to write more...who knows?

CardenIAntauraNauco · 12-30-2001, 02:33 AM

I saw that the number of visits was 666. I thought fast and decided to change the number before we brought any evil powers upon our thread

Mark of Cenla · 01-01-2002, 05:49 PM

I am a high school English teacher, and I have read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings multiple times. I make my students read a book every grading period, but I let them choose the books. Some of them are reading Tolkien, and when they do, I make it a point to discuss it with them.
I am not a literature snob at all. Many "classics" are very boring to me. There is just too much out there to say what is good or essential reading. Peace.

kennebecc · 01-01-2002, 08:02 PM

Boy, now all you young 'uns have done it. Two English teachers in a row, and a school Media Specialist popping in to refute your claims.

My experience is that students as a whole are just not interested in reading Tolkien. There appear to be a very select group of young people (and, older people too) willing to slug through the prose to get to the story.

The schools that I've been associated with have The Hobbit as part of the curriculum. Students hate it. They don't get it, and they don't want to read it. They think Bilbo is foolish, and the adventure ridiculous. They would much prefer going to the movies and watching Star Wars. Honest. I've heard them. But, not everyone. Every once in awhile, you see that spark, which is, of course, what every teacher hopes to see . . and the spark, is the joy of reading, of just picking up that book, and discovering that you can be transported to another world.

At the moment I have four classes of 6th and 7th graders, and we are reading The Hobbit. This was in anticipation of the movie, since I realized that a back ground would be helpful. Out of about 40 students, I can think of only 2 who went ahead and read the LOTR. The rest are still struggling with The Hobbit. But, boy have we had fun with it. I am thinking of having them construct a map of ME, in order to trace Bilbo's trek. I'm hoping that the spark has been lit, but still not sure. It will be interesting, after the holidays, to see what their reaction to the movie will be.

Oh, and by the way, nearly every teacher on staff here has eagerly awaited LOTR. Our budget was frozen or the school would have rented the nearest theater for a private showing. (We got Harry Potter in, but not LOTR). Just thought you all might be mildly interested from this other perspective. Incidentally, Fantasy/SF literature is not for everyone. There are many who do not enjoy it, and I respect that. It is part of what makes us all individuals. But, if just for one moment, I could get them to 'see' this fantastic world . . .

12-01-2001, 05:49 PM	#62
Bacchus Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Houston TX USA Posts: 245	well... I can muddle my way through, or I could a few years ago anyway. It does help that I've read it in English many times. __________________ Yet neither by wolf, nor by Balrog, nor by Dragon, would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of Men. Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.

12-01-2001, 06:04 PM	#64
Bacchus Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Houston TX USA Posts: 245	The grammar and sentence structure in French is different, of course, but my major difficulties with the language are in vocabulary. Since I already have a pretty good idea what is going to happen, and I understand French grammar rules (to an extent, anyway), I can usually deduce the French vocabulary with which I am unfamiliar. I don't have any illusions that this makes me fluent, however. __________________ Yet neither by wolf, nor by Balrog, nor by Dragon, would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of Men. Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.

12-06-2001, 02:02 AM	#65
arynetrek Elf Lord Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 610	Lithuanian question... where did you find a Lithuanian class? are you living in Lithuania & taking it as an "our country's literature" class? or do you live somewhere that they offer the language as an elective? the Tolkien class at Rice - when i was a senior in HS Rice kept sending me information & packets & nearly begged me to apply - i didn't mostly because i needed to take a break from school & knew that when i did go back i'd have to get out of TX, but there was a part of my mind that kept telling me "apply, there's something there for you..." i guess that class was calling to me - unfortunately the school i'm in now doesn't have a fantasy-based lit class, but i'm in an art school that is NOT known for its academics. maybe a Spanish LotR would help me relearn the language - or maybe i should go to the Spanish forum here & make a fool out of myself... aryne *

12-06-2001, 06:45 AM	#67
Ace Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Long Island Posts: 20	Clarification "You two break it up" was directed to Kirinski54 and Ghost of Tolkien

12-06-2001, 05:54 PM	#69
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Well... Stop it anyway! __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-01-2001, 05:55 PM	#63
Losttaliel Sapling Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 10	Well, I suppose that would explin it! Reading it and reading the english one... Though the grammer in the french one is weird. Or should be, anyhow. :-)

12-06-2001, 06:43 AM	#66
Ace Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Long Island Posts: 20	Alright, you two break it up. Tolkien originally wrote the Hobbit as a children's story and he was subsequently inspired to write LOTR, not because he loved language, though his love of language is apparent and certainly aids his writing. Receiving Oxford's highest award for Philology, not LOTR says something. As for English, it is worthwhile to all of you who says it isn't, if you love Tolkien and haven't read Milton or Dante or Spencer is to read Tolkien and not know where the roots are. LOTR is an epic, and in my opinion and many others a great one. Proudly carrying the tradition of "Paradise Lost". English teachers who have not read it, they suck, all that I have had that are worth their salt have read them. "If the choice be mine, I say, we march!"

12-06-2001, 10:04 PM	#70
Ace Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Long Island Posts: 20	Oops, my mistake.

12-27-2001, 07:23 PM	#72
crow Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Connecticut, USA, though I suspect my soul longs for another place. Oxford, say. Posts: 24	Ghost of Tolkien, I really like what you posted. I have not yet fully absorbed what you wrote and I'm not sure if I agree with all, or any, of your ideas. It was witty, though. That's always endearing to me. __________________ Here's a pretty hobbit skin to wrap an elven princeling in!

12-27-2001, 10:35 PM	#73
Gildor Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: rural America Posts: 37	Do not despair. I am a teacher, and oddly enough, I have read Lord of the Rings many times. It is on my reading list and I encourage students to read it. True, not everyone enjoys every genre, but I have yet to find someone who actually read the book and didn't like it. p.s. I also like Pride and Prejudice, Hamlet, Count of Monte Cristo, The "Mutiny on the Bounty" Trilogy and many many more. (trashy romance novels excluded) In defense of what your teachers teach, however, I have to say that sometimes they have no choice. The scope and sequence, textbook availability, etc. dictates their lesson plans. When I taught English, however, I had much more leeway in the matter. As long as it was in our literature book or grammar or spelling or vocabulary....I could teach it. There are many wonderful books in this world. Maybe you will be the ones to write more...who knows? __________________ Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere.

12-30-2001, 02:33 AM	#74
CardenIAntauraNauco Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: rural oklahoma Posts: 324	I saw that the number of visits was 666. I thought fast and decided to change the number before we brought any evil powers upon our thread __________________ "We will have peace","Yes we will have peace...we will have peace when you and all your works have perished - and the works of your dark lord to whom you would deliver us. You are a liar,Saruman,and a corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me and I percieve only a finger of the claw of Mordor. Cruel and cold! Even if your war on me was just - as it was not,for were you ten times as wise you would have no right to rule me and mine, for your own profit you desired-even so, what will you say of your Torches in westfold and the children that lie dead there? And they hewed Hama's body before the gates of Hornburg, after he was dead. When you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows, I will have peace with you and Orthanc. So much for the House of Eorl. A lesser son of greater Sires am I, but I do not need to lick your fingers. Turn elsewither for I fear your voice has lost it's charm.

01-01-2002, 05:49 PM	#75
Mark of Cenla Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: central Louisiana Posts: 105	I am a high school English teacher, and I have read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings multiple times. I make my students read a book every grading period, but I let them choose the books. Some of them are reading Tolkien, and when they do, I make it a point to discuss it with them. I am not a literature snob at all. Many "classics" are very boring to me. There is just too much out there to say what is good or essential reading. Peace. __________________ Mark Wellman ><>

01-01-2002, 08:02 PM	#76
kennebecc Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: US Posts: 35	Boy, now all you young 'uns have done it. Two English teachers in a row, and a school Media Specialist popping in to refute your claims. My experience is that students as a whole are just not interested in reading Tolkien. There appear to be a very select group of young people (and, older people too) willing to slug through the prose to get to the story. The schools that I've been associated with have The Hobbit as part of the curriculum. Students hate it. They don't get it, and they don't want to read it. They think Bilbo is foolish, and the adventure ridiculous. They would much prefer going to the movies and watching Star Wars. Honest. I've heard them. But, not everyone. Every once in awhile, you see that spark, which is, of course, what every teacher hopes to see . . and the spark, is the joy of reading, of just picking up that book, and discovering that you can be transported to another world. At the moment I have four classes of 6th and 7th graders, and we are reading The Hobbit. This was in anticipation of the movie, since I realized that a back ground would be helpful. Out of about 40 students, I can think of only 2 who went ahead and read the LOTR. The rest are still struggling with The Hobbit. But, boy have we had fun with it. I am thinking of having them construct a map of ME, in order to trace Bilbo's trek. I'm hoping that the spark has been lit, but still not sure. It will be interesting, after the holidays, to see what their reaction to the movie will be. Oh, and by the way, nearly every teacher on staff here has eagerly awaited LOTR. Our budget was frozen or the school would have rented the nearest theater for a private showing. (We got Harry Potter in, but not LOTR). Just thought you all might be mildly interested from this other perspective. Incidentally, Fantasy/SF literature is not for everyone. There are many who do not enjoy it, and I respect that. It is part of what makes us all individuals. But, if just for one moment, I could get them to 'see' this fantastic world . . .

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