How old is Legolas?

[Curufin]

And they are the same one.

[feawen]

i know i saw his name in one of the old book maybe it was one of the book of lost tales, though ive not finished 2 yet i was sure it was a passing sentence in the sil oh knows! but i know it was legolas!

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Glorfindel was indeed the same guy in both. Legolas was not. Neither were Denethor or Boromir.

[Jon S.]

We had two President Roosevelts so I see no reason why ME couldn't have had two Legolases (or is that Legolasi?).

[Gordis]

Because eventually all the Legolasi will be stuck in Valinor - either alive or re-embodied. Same reason the elves don't remarry: they would be stuck with a whole range of spouses for all eternity.
When a Man dies - he dies for good, there won't be two Denethors the Stewards at once, to call each other "number I" and "number II". Not so with those weird Elves.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Jon S.

I admire your reasoning and creativity, Gordis, I would caution that we keep in mind the amount of assuming/speculating you're incorporating into it. Even Tolkien said, when asked what he would do differently in the book were he to write it over again, "make it longer." The absence of a description of X does not establish that X did not occur. Thranduil was, at best, a marginal LOTR character. For all we know, he had several long chats with Gandalf, Aragorn, and/or Elrond (he certainly had opportunities to do so) and was privy to the full scoop.

Good point, I think it's natural to assume that many, many conversations occurred in Rivendell between the leaders that has escaped the book, because in the end this is (mostly) a tale from the hobbit's point of view (and much may have escaped their attention) in this quest to destroy the ring.

[Amael]

Originally Posted by Jon S.

What if taking "Leggy" (nice - I like that ) was actually to punish Thranduil for being such a lousy jailer? (And let's face it, he did suck at it. First he lets Bilbo and the Dwarves high-tail it ... next it's Gollum! )

They're woodelves of Mirkwood, not the wiser Elves of Rivendell, Lothlorien, or certainly not Tirion and the Eldar living in Valinor! I'm not surprised they were terrible jailers. They'd be the foes that would place someone in prison and have 1 inept guard guarding them. Thranduil was Sindar, related to the Telerin Elves but most of those around him were of the Silvan Elves, descended from Nandor and some Avari among others as well. I call the lines of those in Mirkwood sort of 'thinned out' as the blood of the Eldar is .... quite thin in them now. Whereas Rivendell troops require no fancy upgrades and rely mostly on skill and the original forgework and skill they have in forgework, those from Mirkwood depend more on numbers it seems than anything. Put 1 guard from Rivendell or Lothlorien there to guard the Dwarves or Gollum and you'll have them trapped for a while. Poor Bilbo wouldn't have had a chance.

And now to the discussion at-hand.

Pregnancy in Elves takes slightly longer than a year, no less than a year. Though they will be quite small, like small children, even at the age of 25, they are already quitte intelligent by the age of 7. They aren't bothered by the Grim Reaper and that may explain why some Elves don't bother to learn many skills very quickly, but some do so anyway. Free will does exist amongst Elves like anyone else. Elves have reached adulthood by 100 years of age. Just because they can live too 30,000 or even more doesn't mean that when they're 2,000 they look like kids in their early teens. To the Elves, teenage still means you're between 13 and 19, so the term 'teenage' is completely different because they look like very small children at those ages. So let's just say they probably reach puberty around between 50 and 75. They'll grow quite a lot in their first 50 years and will still be growing until they are 100 years old. They are pretty much adults at the age of 100, though they might not look so. They change the most durring this time. They'll look like teenagers probably for a couple thousand years. After that time, they will ever so slowly age, so slight that it's not even noticeable for a very very long time. As they live, the amount they age slows even further, and eventually they almost do not age at all.

Galadriel was whatt, around 20,000 years old when she departed for Valinor. She looked not much more than a college-aged gal. Some Elves looked to have aged such as Cirdan went through torture and torment. Elrond was only just over 6,000 years old at the time of leaving Middle Earth, but he definitely did not look as young as other Elves his age looked. He went through a lot of burden in his many years and having not seen Celebrian for a couple of thousand years probablly had something to do with that burden.

Legolas, movie Legolas now, not the book Legolas, looked what I would imagine an Elf between 300 and 1500 would look like. But who knows, not enough is said about it to put a good number on it. 500 times he's seen this and that happen, so since Tolkien wrote it that way, Tolkien being human himself, he probably meant 500 years. He may not havve, but then again he might have.

[Earniel]

On a side-note, I would not put the Elves of Lórien on a higher level as those of Mirkwood. While Galadriel was a High Elf, her people were silvan, just like those of Mirkwood. Rivendell on the other hand started out with a majority of Noldor. But I don't think any could have foreseen an invisible Hobbit!

[Willow Oran]

Elrond was only just over 6,000 years old at the time of leaving Middle Earth, but he definitely did not look as young as other Elves his age looked. He went through a lot of burden in his many years and having not seen Celebrian for a couple of thousand years probablly had something to do with that burden.

Elrond is probably not the best example to use to illustrate elven aging. I could be misremembering, but I recall there being some implication that aging for the half-elven was a little unpredictable during the First age, before the choice came into play and when Elrond would have been doing most of his growing.

If you look at timelines of the First Age and do the math you'll find that Earendil would have been just twenty-two years old when Elrond and Elros are said to have been born. So it's probable that the half-elven would continue to mature at rate closer to mannish aging.

Point being that Elrond's slightly more aged appearance might have been because he aged more similarily to the Edain until the point where he chose to be counted as an elf, and could have very little to do with later stresses.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Because eventually all the Legolasi will be stuck in Valinor - either alive or re-embodied. Same reason the elves don't remarry: they would be stuck with a whole range of spouses for all eternity.

Like Mormons.

When a Man dies - he dies for good, there won't be two Denethors the Stewards at once, to call each other "number I" and "number II". Not so with those weird Elves.

*adds to lists of reasons I'm not hiring elves as problem solvers, since every country cousin I know has figured out a way to call someone "Little Bobbie" and someone "BobbieClark"*

[Amael]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

On a side-note, I would not put the Elves of Lórien on a higher level as those of Mirkwood. While Galadriel was a High Elf, her people were silvan, just like those of Mirkwood. Rivendell on the other hand started out with a majority of Noldor. But I don't think any could have foreseen an invisible Hobbit!

Indeed, you're right. I would only be counting that for Galadriel when it comes down to it. Thranduil and Legolas were Sindarin mostly while the rest in Mirkwood were mostly Silvan/Avarin/etc.

But I count the Avari higher than most people do. They remained here through it all, they were with it from the beginning. If I had had a choice, given what I've seen, I would have chosen to stay myself. Battling the peoples of the east who were allied to Morgoth had to have creatted an unique situation. The skills of the Avari are underestimated in my opinion, mostly because the others in Middle Earth know very little of them and some Elves don't even care about the Avari. I didn't care for Thranduil's treatment of the Dwarves, his spite had no place and no just cause. His problems with Dwarves was inherited from problems that were had with the Petty Dwarves in the First Age, and his father probably made him prejudiced to them. It's a common theme amongst humans, and seems to be a common theme amongst Elves as well. But besides that, Thranduil is for the most part a pretty loyal person. Legolas in my opinion is the better though. He said to Gimli "what about side by side with a friend" and that showed how unprejudiced he had become. Anyone who says that Legolas served little duty in the Fellowship doesn't see the whole pictture. "You will either unite or you will fall" and that was one of Elrond's main goals with the fellowship actually: diplomacy. Young adult Elves (3000 years old) seem to have the most prejudice. By time you reach Elrond's age, you get tired of all that bickering, and he wass mighty tired of it. Legolas was quite young but bettered himself quite quickly for his young age, considering the possibility of befriending a Dwarf. Gimli did the same upon seeing Galadriel. "These Elven folk, they're not as bad as I thought." That was probably his thoughts after that.

Originally Posted by Willow Oran

Elrond is probably not the best example to use to illustrate elven aging. I could be misremembering, but I recall there being some implication that aging for the half-elven was a little unpredictable during the First age, before the choice came into play and when Elrond would have been doing most of his growing.

If you look at timelines of the First Age and do the math you'll find that Earendil would have been just twenty-two years old when Elrond and Elros are said to have been born. So it's probable that the half-elven would continue to mature at rate closer to mannish aging.

Point being that Elrond's slightly more aged appearance might have been because he aged more similarily to the Edain until the point where he chose to be counted as an elf, and could have very little to do with later stresses.

That's likely the case. Cirdan would be more or less a better example of Elven aging. He was at the third phase by the time of the War of the Ring. After returning from imprisonment in the First Age, some of his people didn't recognize him at first glance. That aging did have more to do with stress in that case though.

[Willow Oran]

Where does it say that Cirdan was ever imprisoned during the First Age?

[Amael]

I believe it was Unfinished Tales.

[Earniel]

Are you sure you aren't confusing with Gwindor from the Narn i hin hurin?

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I didn't know there were *any* Cirdan tales. He built ships. He gave Gandalf a ring. He used to help out Thingol on occasion. He lived long enough to actually grow a beard. Do we really know much more about him? If so, a citation would be great. I'd love to read more about Cirdan. I think he's a great example of how being a "high" elf is no prerequisite to being one of the great ones.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

I didn't know there were *any* Cirdan tales. He built ships. He gave Gandalf a ring. He used to help out Thingol on occasion. He lived long enough to actually grow a beard. Do we really know much more about him? If so, a citation would be great. I'd love to read more about Cirdan. I think he's a great example of how being a "high" elf is no prerequisite to being one of the great ones.

See, here's one of those places we differ (I think you mean guarantee, rather than 'prerequisite', here, if not, just ignore me.). Cirdan's like Tom. He doesn't get the press, because he's busy doing his job, unlike some wandering meddlers *cough*Mithrandir*cough* who make the great issues all their personal beeswax. I can just see endless generations of Elves staring wistfully out to sea saying, 'Ya know, while we were sitting around trying to invent new names so we wouldn't be confused in the afterlife, we should have looked into this whole "boatbuilding" thing.'

They needed a Cirdan on jail-keeping, is my opinion.

[Amael]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Are you sure you aren't confusing with Gwindor from the Narn i hin hurin?

No confusion at all with this. It wasn't Gwindor, though some things may have been similar.

[Earniel]

Well, you're going to have to look up the quote then before I believe it. I'm pretty sure if it was in UT then I should have read it.

[BeardofPants]

I don't recall reading it either. I think you're mistaken.

[Amael]

Well no big whoop, I suppose I am mistaken then. No gang violence necessary.