Horcruxes - Page 4

durinsbane2244 · 06-10-2006, 08:34 AM

hm. we have no way to know, do we?

jammi567 · 06-10-2006, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by durinsbane2244

hm. we have no way to know, do we?

until harry tries to distroy it of course.

durinsbane2244 · 06-10-2006, 09:00 AM

indeed. i wonder how he'll go about that, eh? also, peoples, go to the trivia threads. they haff died.

jammi567 · 06-15-2006, 04:28 PM

Some more articles on this (some of them are also about R.A.B, SO BE WARNED

) : here, here , here , here, here, and here
Whew!

durinsbane2244 · 06-15-2006, 09:40 PM

wow...you get around!!

tolkienfan · 06-16-2006, 12:40 AM

wow, the second one is interesting. I'll have to read the rest of them tomorrow. I've read four of them now, (two in the other thread) thanks for sharing jammi!

jammi567 · 06-16-2006, 05:40 AM

Thanks guys. if you want to read more stuff to do with harry potter, then click on the links below. First one leads to the discussion thread, second one leads to a website dedicated to the boy and the world around him.

jammi567 · 07-22-2006, 06:41 AM

so, any new ideas?

***azalea*** · 07-24-2006, 08:17 AM

I'm unhappy with the number at which Dumbledore arrived.
HE said that 2 horcruxes were destroyed, 1 soul part is in Voldie and 4 horcruxes are left making 7 total soul parts.

I think there is a discrepancy. What about the part of the soul that was killed when Voldie cursed Harry? It backfired and Voldie was destroyed, remember? So my thinking was that Vapormort was one of the horcruxes released, which means that that part is what now resides in him, so that would have to be subtracted from the number of horcruxes.

According to Dumbledore, Voldie had made 5 horcruxes before his downfall, then one after for a total of six, plus the part of soul within him. By MY calculation it should be only 3 horcruxes left to destroy:

Voldie had his embodied soul plus 5 horcruxes (6 soul parts). Then his curse on Harry, which was assumed to be his final horcrux in the making, backfired. So not only was the sixth horcrux not made, but he was destroyed, which to me means that that part of his soul would have died. He was able to become Vapormort by the release of a horcrux, leaving the number of horcruxes at 4, plus the released one (Vapormort), for a total of five soul parts.

Then Harry destroyed a horcrux (the diary), leaving only 3 horcruxes. This leaves us four soul parts. Then, according to D'dore, Voldie made another horcrux when he killed Frank Bryce at the Riddle house (Nagini). So that brings the number of horcruxes back up to 4, for a total of 5 soul parts.

Then Dumbledore destroyed the ring horcrux, bringing the number back down to 3 horcruxes, for a total of 4 soul parts.

Then when Harry found the note in the locket, it appeared to me that RAB might have destroyed THAT horcrux, in which case there would be only 2 horcruxes left, plus the soul part in Voldie. But we don't know that he was successful in destroying it, so that's up for debate. But unless he has made another horcrux since returning, I don't see how one gets around the fact that one of the pre-existing ones had to be used to allow Voldie to remain alive. It seems JK is discounting that when numbering the horcruxes Harry has left to destroy.

Bottom line: I think that Harry should only have 4 soul parts to destroy, not 5 as Dumbledore indicated. And maybe not even that many.

It'll be: the locket horcrux at Grimmauld Place (which may already be destroyed), Nagini, and probably a tiara of Ravenclaws in the room of Requirement at Hogwarts. I think the Cup one was released to allow Voldie to still be alive after the curse backfired on him. And then Harry will have only that one, residing in Voldie himself, to destroy.

What do you think?

jammi567 · 07-24-2006, 08:37 AM

assuming that your idea is true, what happened to the soul piece that was in voldemort when he attacked that night.

jammi567 · 07-24-2006, 02:28 PM

here's an interesting essay to what that horcrux of Griffindors/Ravenclaws could be.

durinsbane2244 · 07-24-2006, 02:57 PM

nice article...well-written...

jammi567 · 07-24-2006, 03:11 PM

any thoughts on it?

***azalea*** · 07-24-2006, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammi567

assuming that your idea is true, what happened to the soul piece that was in voldemort when he attacked that night.

It died when the body did, gone "beyond the veil." Isn't that what happens when someone dies?
I'm not putting this forth as a theory necessarily, but it seems to be a discrepancy. I mean, what is the point of having horcruxes if your soul doesn't die anyway when you are killed? It could be that the AK curse backfiring didn't actually kill him, but to me "backfiring" means that the person sending it receives it rather than the target (a la Gilderoy Lockhart in COS).

So why wouldn't that piece of soul have died? Wouldn't his living indicate that his plan worked, and that a horcrux was released when he was killed, enabling him to live on?

jammi567 · 07-24-2006, 06:14 PM

ohhh, i get you now, it was just the way it was written, that's all. any thoughts on the article.

***azalea*** · 07-24-2006, 08:06 PM

Well written, nicely done.

The house relics could possibly correspond to the suits in the tarot deck:
Cups
Swords
Wands (like a sceptre, could go along with the tiara)
Pentacles (or coins -- perhaps represented by the locket)

jammi567 · 07-25-2006, 03:26 AM

do you what each of them is supposed to represent?

***azalea*** · 07-25-2006, 07:53 AM

I know pentacles have to do with money. I forget the other ones, and no longer own a deck or book about it. I want to say that cups loosely corresponds to relationships. I'll have to check with my mom, who is into that kind of thing. Someone else might know or have access to some info in the meantime.

Swords are generally bad, and have to do with conflict. I think they correspond to spades in the regular deck, which is what Trelawny was turning over in the one scene in HBP (The House of Gaunt, when Harry is headed to Dumbledore's office).
I think that clubs are wands, hearts are cups, and diamonds are pentacles.

Each suit also probably corresponds to an element, but again, I don't know which. I know that each house has been linked to an element (Slytherin=water, Ravenclaw=air, Gryffindor=fire, Hufflepuff=earth), so it would be interesting to see if their relics also had that same link.

jammi567 · 07-25-2006, 04:40 PM

water = deceptiveness, danderous (hense why the S common room is under the lake, according to JKR).
air = high thinking, exploring new ideas, creativity (hense why R common room is in a tower).
fire = dangerous, sometimes impossible to control, can't think of anything else.
earth = generosity, can't think of anything else

here's also an essay about the horcruxes and the tarot.

above only my ideas, don't take too seriously

***azalea*** · 07-25-2006, 07:15 PM

Excellent article -- thank you for posting the link! I recommend it to anyone reading this thread. I see that she says that the element links with the tarot suits that correspond to the relics are the opposite of the element links to each one's house. It would have been a lot to pull off for everything to correspond perfectly, or else maybe it is intentional. You never know.

I like the idea of a wand being the "other" horcrux. The tiara just seems likely because of how it is mentioned, and she is after all "Fair" Ravenclaw (of course it could just mean she was blonde), and the tiara is a symbol of beauty queens. Plus I like the sceptre connection. It also would give Harry a reason to return to Hogwarts for a seventh year.

06-10-2006, 08:34 AM	#61
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	hm. we have no way to know, do we? __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

06-10-2006, 09:00 AM	#63
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	indeed. i wonder how he'll go about that, eh? also, peoples, go to the trivia threads. they haff died. __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

06-15-2006, 04:28 PM	#64
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	Some more articles on this (some of them are also about R.A.B, SO BE WARNED ) : here, here , here , here, here, and here Whew! __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. Last edited by jammi567 : 06-15-2006 at 04:29 PM.

06-15-2006, 09:40 PM	#65
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	wow...you get around!! __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

06-16-2006, 12:40 AM	#66
tolkienfan Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Internet Posts: 803	wow, the second one is interesting. I'll have to read the rest of them tomorrow. I've read four of them now, (two in the other thread) thanks for sharing jammi! __________________ Don't be hasty! Thanks so much to Last Child of Ungoliant, Twista, and BeardofPants for my avatar!

06-16-2006, 05:40 AM	#67
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	Thanks guys. if you want to read more stuff to do with harry potter, then click on the links below. First one leads to the discussion thread, second one leads to a website dedicated to the boy and the world around him. __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

07-22-2006, 06:41 AM	#68
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	so, any new ideas? __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

07-24-2006, 08:17 AM	#69
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	I'm unhappy with the number at which Dumbledore arrived. HE said that 2 horcruxes were destroyed, 1 soul part is in Voldie and 4 horcruxes are left making 7 total soul parts. I think there is a discrepancy. What about the part of the soul that was killed when Voldie cursed Harry? It backfired and Voldie was destroyed, remember? So my thinking was that Vapormort was one of the horcruxes released, which means that that part is what now resides in him, so that would have to be subtracted from the number of horcruxes. According to Dumbledore, Voldie had made 5 horcruxes before his downfall, then one after for a total of six, plus the part of soul within him. By MY calculation it should be only 3 horcruxes left to destroy: Voldie had his embodied soul plus 5 horcruxes (6 soul parts). Then his curse on Harry, which was assumed to be his final horcrux in the making, backfired. So not only was the sixth horcrux not made, but he was destroyed, which to me means that that part of his soul would have died. He was able to become Vapormort by the release of a horcrux, leaving the number of horcruxes at 4, plus the released one (Vapormort), for a total of five soul parts. Then Harry destroyed a horcrux (the diary), leaving only 3 horcruxes. This leaves us four soul parts. Then, according to D'dore, Voldie made another horcrux when he killed Frank Bryce at the Riddle house (Nagini). So that brings the number of horcruxes back up to 4, for a total of 5 soul parts. Then Dumbledore destroyed the ring horcrux, bringing the number back down to 3 horcruxes, for a total of 4 soul parts. Then when Harry found the note in the locket, it appeared to me that RAB might have destroyed THAT horcrux, in which case there would be only 2 horcruxes left, plus the soul part in Voldie. But we don't know that he was successful in destroying it, so that's up for debate. But unless he has made another horcrux since returning, I don't see how one gets around the fact that one of the pre-existing ones had to be used to allow Voldie to remain alive. It seems JK is discounting that when numbering the horcruxes Harry has left to destroy. Bottom line: I think that Harry should only have 4 soul parts to destroy, not 5 as Dumbledore indicated. And maybe not even that many. It'll be: the locket horcrux at Grimmauld Place (which may already be destroyed), Nagini, and probably a tiara of Ravenclaws in the room of Requirement at Hogwarts. I think the Cup one was released to allow Voldie to still be alive after the curse backfired on him. And then Harry will have only that one, residing in Voldie himself, to destroy. What do you think?

07-24-2006, 08:37 AM	#70
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	assuming that your idea is true, what happened to the soul piece that was in voldemort when he attacked that night. __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

07-24-2006, 02:28 PM	#71
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	here's an interesting essay to what that horcrux of Griffindors/Ravenclaws could be. __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

07-24-2006, 02:57 PM	#72
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	nice article...well-written... __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

07-24-2006, 03:11 PM	#73
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	any thoughts on it? __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

07-24-2006, 06:14 PM	#75
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	ohhh, i get you now, it was just the way it was written, that's all. any thoughts on the article. __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

07-24-2006, 08:06 PM	#76
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Well written, nicely done. The house relics could possibly correspond to the suits in the tarot deck: Cups Swords Wands (like a sceptre, could go along with the tiara) Pentacles (or coins -- perhaps represented by the locket)

07-25-2006, 03:26 AM	#77
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	do you what each of them is supposed to represent? __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

07-25-2006, 07:53 AM	#78
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	I know pentacles have to do with money. I forget the other ones, and no longer own a deck or book about it. I want to say that cups loosely corresponds to relationships. I'll have to check with my mom, who is into that kind of thing. Someone else might know or have access to some info in the meantime. Swords are generally bad, and have to do with conflict. I think they correspond to spades in the regular deck, which is what Trelawny was turning over in the one scene in HBP (The House of Gaunt, when Harry is headed to Dumbledore's office). I think that clubs are wands, hearts are cups, and diamonds are pentacles. Each suit also probably corresponds to an element, but again, I don't know which. I know that each house has been linked to an element (Slytherin=water, Ravenclaw=air, Gryffindor=fire, Hufflepuff=earth), so it would be interesting to see if their relics also had that same link.

07-25-2006, 04:40 PM	#79
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	water = deceptiveness, danderous (hense why the S common room is under the lake, according to JKR). air = high thinking, exploring new ideas, creativity (hense why R common room is in a tower). fire = dangerous, sometimes impossible to control, can't think of anything else. earth = generosity, can't think of anything else here's also an essay about the horcruxes and the tarot. above only my ideas, don't take too seriously __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

07-25-2006, 07:15 PM	#80
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Excellent article -- thank you for posting the link! I recommend it to anyone reading this thread. I see that she says that the element links with the tarot suits that correspond to the relics are the opposite of the element links to each one's house. It would have been a lot to pull off for everything to correspond perfectly, or else maybe it is intentional. You never know. I like the idea of a wand being the "other" horcrux. The tiara just seems likely because of how it is mentioned, and she is after all "Fair" Ravenclaw (of course it could just mean she was blonde), and the tiara is a symbol of beauty queens. Plus I like the sceptre connection. It also would give Harry a reason to return to Hogwarts for a seventh year.