The Lord of the Rings Discussion Ch 11 and 12

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Valandil

Any-hoo, something else from the end of this section:

When Frodo is making that last dash for the Ford, it's written that it appears to him as though the riders had shed their cloaks and hoods - and he saw them dressed in white and gray, and saw their helms and swords. Really - it's like he saw them as he did when he put on the Ring at Weathertop.

Now - I take it that this is because Frodo was turning into a wraith. I doubt the others saw the riders that way... or that Frodo would have seen them that way if he didn't have his wound. Their proximity may have either hastened the process, or enhanced his awareness of that spirit realm.

I think I only noticed in this reading that when Frodo just slipped past that last rider (thanks to Asfaloth!) he got breathed at... he felt what was probably a shot of the Black Breath!

So, he got doped with Black Breath? No wonder he didn't know which way to go.

[Artanis]

Originally Posted by Olmer

Then how to explain that they had a numerous opportunities to get the Ring without any effort and failed all of them?

Fate.

More precisely, fate combined with the courage and high spirits of the Hobbits and Strider. The ringwraiths were not that powerful in the physical sense, their weapon was mainly the fear that they imposed in their enemies, as I think Val and Attalus have said too (but in another thread maybe). They were most confident in the darkness. They did not go for the Ring at Bree because they thought that there would be better chances later on, with the Hobbits alone in the wild and only Strider to look after them.

Also they were vulnerable to Elvish power. I don't think it was just a coincidence that Gildor & company turned up exactly when they did, I think it was some higher power at work there. It does not surprise me that the wraiths were put off by Elvish song, a song about Elbereth. Consider what Aragorn says after the attack on Weathertop:

This was the stroke of Frodo's sword,' he said. 'The only hurt that it did to his enemy, I fear; for it is unharmed, but all blades perish that pierce that dreadful King. More deadly to him was the name of Elbereth.

[edit]Ai Olmer, this reply should perhaps rather have been in your new thread ... [/edit]

Originally Posted by Valandil

Now - I take it that this is because Frodo was turning into a wraith. I doubt the others saw the riders that way... or that Frodo would have seen them that way if he didn't have his wound. Their proximity may have either hastened the process, or enhanced his awareness of that spirit realm.

I think so too - Frodo was slowly turning into a wraith himself and could see the Black Riders as they were appearing in the spirit realm. He saw Glorfindel in that way too.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

Yeah didn't it run in to the Silverlode.

no, it ran into the Sirannon, the Gate-Stream, but it had been blocked, so was effectively cut off from seas, rivers etc and consequently Ulmo

[Serenoli]

I was re-reading Book One today- and I noticed sth curious:

There's a poem about Aragorn where the following line occurs A light from the shadows shall spring

And then at the end of A Knife In The Dark, just before Frodo becomes unconcious, he gets a glimpse of Strider leaping out of the darkness with a flaming brand of wood in either hand.

I suppose the poem is not supposed to be taken literally but symbolically, but I think its curious all the same... that Strider should do just what was predicted of him.

Also, about Strider warning them constantly not to mention Mordor, or the Nazgul, I wonder if it is because saying or thinking about these brings to the surface the hobbit's fear of the Riders... and as the Riders are good at detecting the emotions of ppl, particularly fear, maybe that would draw them near... just a theory.

And sorry for being a year behind the times! Pity I only found out about this forum last week...