The Lord of the Rings discussion: Chapter 1, A Long-expected Party

[brownjenkins]

i think the idea is that gandalf wanted to make it somewhat explainable... like a magic trick, you may not know how it was achieved, but you know it wasn't supernatural... the flash allowed for a quick escape as an explanation... if bilbo had just vanished, it would have been harder for the audience to come up with a rationalization and the disappearence might have even had more staying power than it already did

[Nurvingiel]

In addition, people will say he disappeared in a flash, instead of vanishing without a puff. That might tip off the Nazgul, or their agents, more if they overheard the gossip. The damage had already been done, but I think Gandalf was trying to mitigate it.

[azalea]

Sorry if I misread your first post Olmer, but it sounded to me like you were saying the whole thing was Gandalf's idea. All he cared about was seeing Bilbo off and making sure he knew where the Ring was. He knew Bilbo wanted to be rid of it, and Gandalf wanted to help him make sure that he did. But he never intended for Bilbo to use the ring to disappear in front of everyone. And he was merely going along with the other stuff (the party and permanent departure from the Shire), it wasn't his own idea. He was not a "micro manager" in that way. Bilbo could have taken it with him if he'd wanted to, but Gandalf knew from previous conversations that he had intended to give up the ring, and he knew that it would be best for Bilbo to do so, and thus he used his influence with Bilbo (their mutual trust) to help him to part with it at the last minute. He had a feeling that the ring might be more important than was previously thought, but he didn't already know it was the One (IOW, I agree with Artanis and the others in their assessment of this).
Someone may have already said this, but the increased watch was more likely due to the fact that there was more activity on the borders than there had been. I think if Gandalf thought the Dark Lord himself (through his underlings) were knocking on the Shire door, he'd have done a lot more than that.

I don't like the idea that Gandalf was being underhanded in his dealing with the hobbits at all. I think Gandalf is a complex character, but there isn't more than what we are presented in the story in terms of intentions (ie, he was acting in the interest of the free peoples of ME at all times, not his own, apart from where that benefits the ultimate goal of helping them to remain free). It's his exterior and demeanor that are gruff, but inside he is all good.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

this is the first time i have joined in on a discussion thread, so please be gentle with me
in my opinion, the use of gandlaf's flare of magic was for the use of anyone who might (but shouldn't) be watching, i.e: any agents of the dark lord. i know gollum hadn't yet been captured by the enemy, but He had many spies in his service for instance crebain, from Dunland is it feasible that crows stayed in one small region, and did not wander?
The flash of light may also have helped to dispel rumours of 'vanishing without a trace', for later on, when the Nazgul had left Minas Morgul, and questioned various people, like the Old Gaffer Gamgee (later on in the book, i know).

As I say, this is my first discussion thread, so please be gentle with me!!

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Olmer
Right. Gandalf didn't stage it, he TALKED Bilbo into staging it, because he MADE Bilbo agree on giving away the Ring and was making sure that he didn't forget about it when leaving all his belongins to Frodo:"Everithing?" said Gandalf. "The ring as well? You AGREED to that, you remember." And the whole "party business was all about, really: to give away lots of birthday presents, and somehow TO MAKE IT EASIER TO GIVE IT(the ring) AWAY at the same time ", in which Gandalf participated more than actively. If he would wanted to mask " the fact" why he wouldn't "mask" his disappearance with a subtle blue fog(for example) without focusing everybody's wandering attention on "blinding" flash?

Hm, I got the impression that the whole disappearing thing was Bilbo's idea and his alone and that Gandalf hadn't been so keen on the whole act but played along to please his Hobbit-friend. The only thing Gandalf really talked Bilbo into was giving up the Ring to Frodo. To give a party with lots of gifts to give, simply to make it easier to give this one precious thing away sounds to me just like an idea that a Hobbit would think of.

It was Bilbo's joke through and through. He nearly says so himself. And IMO it's really something 'queer old Bilbo' would come up with. He wanted to surprise the Hobbits, wanted them to have something to talk about. He didn't mind being called queer, I think he had accepted it and quite enjoyed being able to act funny since he already had that reputation.

The flash that Gandalf provided would, IMO, please the Hobbits more than some freaky fog.

[Rían]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
i think the idea is that gandalf wanted to make it somewhat explainable... like a magic trick, you may not know how it was achieved, but you know it wasn't supernatural... the flash allowed for a quick escape as an explanation... if bilbo had just vanished, it would have been harder for the audience to come up with a rationalization and the disappearence might have even had more staying power than it already did

I agree. Bilbo was rather obstinate, and was going to disappear with the ring no matter what Gandalf said. Even if Bilbo had promised Gandalf to not do it, he probably would have changed his mind when it got to the actual time. I think Gandalf thought it was better to not fight Bilbo about using the ring, and just provide a flash to cover it up, instead. And as far as the fog - I think since Gandalf's "specialty" was fire and lights (or whatever it says - don't have books handy) - the flash is more Gandalf's "style".

[Nurvingiel]

I agree with Rian, the flash would also make it more believeable to the Hobbits.

And even when parting with the Ring, Gandalf didn't force Bilbo. He used all his influence with him as his friend, but he never threatened him or tried to take the Ring.

I think he was afraid of the effects the Ring would have on someone taking it by force - he didn't want to become a 'Sauron-wannabe'. (Interestingly, that's what happened to Saruman, due to studying ring-lore too indepth.)

[cee2lee2]

"bumping" for other latecomers, like me

[Mrs.Gimli]

The first chapter is very long and very intresting I think
My favouoit people are:Stider,frodo,merry,gandalf,and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,LEGOLAS Even though he is kinda dumb

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Mrs.Gimli

The first chapter is very long and very intresting I think
My favouoit people are:Stider,frodo,merry,gandalf,and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,LEGOLAS Even though he is kinda dumb

but strider aka aragorn and legolas aren't in the first chapter