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Old 07-10-2004, 01:44 PM   #61
Attalus
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Quote:
Originally posted by Olmer
.

They both didn't need the Ring to wield, but they didn't want it to be destroyed neither, for it's allowed to keep things as they are - unchanged. So, naturally, Galadriel, as a ruler of her "neverland" realm was more interested in preservance of the Ring .
But to let Frodo out without the Ring would be a very bad political move , because everyone, who were desiring to get the Ring would be looking at Lothlorien. She did not need more enemies then she already had, and she made brilliant and flexible plan of ring's dissapearance .
I take issue that Gandalf and /or Galadriel didn't want the Ring to be destroyed.
Gandalf was the prime mover in the quest to rid Middle-earth of the Ring, and was willing to die (at the Bridge of Khazad-Dum) to fulfill it. Galadriel did have to overcome the temptations of the Ring, which she rather mockingly, it seems to me, details to Frodo and Sam; but she does everything in her power, including clothing the Fellowship in the garb of the Galadrim and giving Aragorn the famous and powerful Elessar, to make the quest succeed. She does realise that there was a very good chance, as actually happened, that the Three would fail, and that Lorien would be no more the enchanted place that she loved, but she deliberately took the chance. As for her "manipulations," she called the White Council, and wanted Gandalf to be its head, for even then she mistrusted Saruman. She always was able to read motivations of people, even cloaked Maiar, and trusted Gandalf but not Saruman. Can you say she was wrong?
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Old 07-13-2004, 08:11 PM   #62
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Yes, but I kinda disagree. Galadriel was wistful about the passing of her realm, but didn't she want to go back to Valinor? I mean, she didn't just have a ticket back, but I feel like she a least had a clue she could go back.
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Old 07-13-2004, 08:12 PM   #63
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After the destruction of the ring, I mean.
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Old 07-27-2004, 06:18 PM   #64
Attalus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew
Yes, but I kinda disagree. Galadriel was wistful about the passing of her realm, but didn't she want to go back to Valinor? I mean, she didn't just have a ticket back, but I feel like she a least had a clue she could go back.
She was able to go back to Valinor sometime between her refusal of the Ruling Ring and of its destruction. When Frodo & Co. left Lothlorien, according to the Letters, she was still under the impression that she was still barred, hence the wistful poignancy of her final song: "Fare well! Maybe even you will find Valinor."
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Old 07-29-2004, 06:29 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attalus
Galadriel did have to overcome the temptations of the Ring, which she rather mockingly, it seems to me, details to Frodo and Sam; but she does everything in her power, including clothing the Fellowship in the garb of the Galadrim and giving Aragorn the famous and powerful Elessar, to make the quest succeed. She does realise that there was a very good chance, as actually happened, that the Three would fail, and that Lorien would be no more the enchanted place that she loved, but she deliberately took the chance.
Yes, indeed. It was like Frodo said at the Havens about someone having to give things up, lose them, so that others may have them. Galadriel was making the ultimate sacrifice - giving up the realm she created and loved so that the people of middle-earth could live a life of freedom and light. She knew this was a probability, yet still chose to aid the destruction of the ring.
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Old 08-13-2004, 03:53 AM   #66
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Yet Galadriel was rewarded for rejecting the Ring. She was previouslt banned from sail to the Undying Lands but after rejecting the Ring her ban was lifted and she was able to sail.
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Old 08-13-2004, 04:25 AM   #67
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I don't know if there are any Letters that bear on this, but IIRC, Unfinished Tales is a bit vague about whether her ban was self-imposed or not. She certainly rejected the invitation at the end of the First Age.
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Old 08-13-2004, 01:48 PM   #68
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From Unfinished Tales, Houghton Mifflin edition, 1980

Quote:
Pride still moved her, when at the end of the Eldar Days after the final overthrow of Morgoth, she refused the pardon of the Valar for all who had fought against him, and remained in Middle-earth. It was not until two long ages more had passed; when at last all that she had desired in her youth came to her hand, the Ring of Power and the dominion of Middle-earth of which she had dreamed, that her wisdom was full grown and she rejected it, and passing the last test departed from Middle-earth for ever.
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Old 08-14-2004, 02:53 AM   #69
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There are several accounts on the history of Galadriel, some of them are contradictory. In 'The Road Goes Ever On' it is said:
Quote:
The question SĂ* man i yulma nin enquantuva? and the question at the end of her song (Vol. I, p. 389), What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?, refer to the special position of Galadriel. She was the last survivor of the princes and queens who had led the revolting Noldor to exile in Middle-earth. After the overthrow of Morgoth at the end of the First Age a ban was set upon her return, and she had replied proudly that she had no wish to do so.
Letter #297 says:
Quote:
The Exiles were allowed to return — save for a few chief actors in the rebellion of whom at the time of the L. R. only Galadriel remained.
With a footnote saying:
Quote:
At the time of her lament in Lórien she believed this to be perennial, as long as Earth endured. Hence she concludes her lament with a wish or prayer that Frodo may as a special grace be granted a purgatorial (but not penal) sojourn in Eressea, the Solitary Isle in sight of Aman, though for her the way is closed. (The Land of Aman after the downfall of Númenor, was no longer in physical existence 'within the circles of the world'.) Her prayer was granted – but also her personal ban was lifted, in reward for her services against Sauron, and above all for her rejection of the temptation to take the Ring when offered to her. So at the end we see her taking ship.
All this is also quoted in 'Unfinished Tales'.

However, Tolkien changed his mind about Galadriel during his lifetime, his last ideas of her story was that she was 'unstained', but got caught up in the ban against the Exiles only by bad luck, and therefore was allowed to return at the end of the first age. But then she refused out of pride.
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Last edited by Artanis : 08-14-2004 at 03:01 AM.
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