Bush addresses the world- Pending War

[GrayMouser]

If the U.S. truly had the support of the majority of countries in the General Assembly, why not call for a vote?

What better way of showing France, Germany, Russia, China and the waverers on the Security Council that world opinion was against them? It wouldn't have been binding in any way, but it would have had great moral force.

Because they would have got their heads handed to them on a platter - the column of countries supporting the war option was cited as including Canada, Mexico, Pakistan, Chile, and India among others.

Would some of the other governments supporting the war in the face of massive domestic opposition- i.e. most of Rumsfeld's New Europe- have been willing to put their votes on record? (note the absolute silence from Berlusconi in the last couple of weeks)

Cheney is certainly correct that some Middle Eastern governments also support the war but are afraid to show it- but what are they afraid of- Saddam?
No, they're afraid of getting dragged out of their palaces and torn to pieces in the street- hardly an encouraging sign for democracy in the region.

BTW a great overview of the mess the Bushies have made of this can be found at Newsweek

http://www.msnbc.com/news/885222.asp?0cv=KA01

And Fareed Zakaria has been a very strong supporter of the war from the beginning.

Anyway this is all basically moot- from last summer it's been obvious that as long as Bush was in Washington and Saddam in Baghdad that there was going to be war.

[Dunadan]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
Anyway this is all basically moot- from last summer it's been obvious that as long as Bush was in Washington and Saddam in Baghdad that there was going to be war.

Agreed. Also, your myth-busting about Afghanistan is welcome.

Interestingly, Blair could find himself being prosecuted in the International Court alongside Milosevic as a result of this. Bush, of course, won't, since the US doesn't recognise its jurisdiction.

[markedel]

True enough. Bush wanted war. The question now is do the Americans have the will to do what needs to be done. Will they invest the time and effort and money to do for the Middle East what they did in Western Europe? Or does the Bush administration and American people lack the will to do so? It doesn't take spine to invade Iraq-it will take spine to rebuild Iraq, to support the Iranian liberalization movement, to pressure Sharon to lean left and for the Palestinians to lean towards rationality. If the U.S has the will I have no doubt that the Middle East can fulfil its potential-though I'm sure I'll be denounced as Imperialist. If so what else can I say but-empires are here, so we might as well use them global benefit.

But I doubt the American people, and especially the Bush administration have the foresight, the patience and the will to do what needs to be done.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
I dont think he gives a hoot at all about religion its all for show. All he cares about is bettering himself.

My point exactly. How popular do you think he'd be with his people if he was seen abandoning his faith? (Well... maybe "popular" isn't the right word. Meh. )

[Dúnedain]

You need proof for countries backing the US?

Thirty nations have joined with the United States in a "coalition of the willing" to bring down Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and another 15 quietly have promised their support.

So here is a listing of some of those countries, I've listed 34, you can find this on news sites all over the place:

Afghanistan
Albania
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Colombia
Czech Republic
Denmark
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Hungary
Italy
Japan
Kazakhstan
Korea
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Netherlands
Nicaragua
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Spain
Turkey
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
Uzbekistan
Yemen <--yup even Yemen, who would have guessed it...

But I guess the US isn't supported

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by markedel
But I doubt the American people, and especially the Bush administration have the foresight, the patience and the will to do what needs to be done.

The US is the only country in the world with the balls to do so, at least we committ to things other countries so faithfully reneg on...

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Dunadan
Interestingly, Blair could find himself being prosecuted in the International Court alongside Milosevic as a result of this. Bush, of course, won't, since the US doesn't recognise its jurisdiction.

LOL, thanks for the laugh!


Speaking of Milosevic, just to prove how weak and useless the UN is, and to show one of the reasons why the US didn't call for a vote, is due to the UN's inability to stand up for people and against tyranical killers. Case in point look at Kosovo and Milosevic. Who of all countries made things difficult for the UN? Our lovely Russian friends who took over the airport to protect the Serbs, thus essentially leaving the UN in paralysis. Clinton went and bypassed the UN going straight to NATO and got the job done. The UN did nothing to stop mass murders, rapes, torturing, etc. by Milosevic and crew. Why would the UN do anything with another tyrannical killer? Exactly they wouldn't! That is why the coalition is bypassing the UN and going in to get the job done that the UN can't do!

[markedel]

"France to back war if chemical weapons used"



What the heck is France doing? Do they have some sort of death wish for Western Civilization-they delegitimize a war, thus making the aftermath of the invasion likely to be bloodier than necessary. They ensure the UN can't give a stamp of approval. And yet IF iraq uses chemical weapons in a war they don't support...they'll support the war!

And I thought the U.S did nonsensical things...at least Bush has stuck to his vision.

[azalea]

Here are my predictons:
Saddam may end up going into exile at the last minute -- just because he SAYS he's not going to doesn't mean that when it comes down to it he won't.
However, I don't think he will because I think in his mind he believes he will "defeat" the U.S., but not militarily. He has not allowed anyone to leave Baghdad. A top Iraqi official said off the record that he secretly had his family leave, although it was forbidden. Saddam wants as many casualties as possible so that the U.S. looks like butchers when civilians are killed in airstrikes, or whatever. He will use his chemical weapons, blow up things, use suicide missions, etc. He will die so as to be seen as a martyr.
My other prediction: Bush will not be elected for a second term.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by azalea
Here are my predictons:
Saddam may end up going into exile at the last minute -- just because he SAYS he's not going to doesn't mean that when it comes down to it he won't.
However, I don't think he will because I think in his mind he believes he will "defeat" the U.S., but not militarily. He has not allowed anyone to leave Baghdad. A top Iraqi official said off the record that he secretly had his family leave, although it was forbidden. Saddam wants as many casualties as possible so that the U.S. looks like butchers when civilians are killed in airstrikes, or whatever. He will use his chemical weapons, blow up things, use suicide missions, etc. He will die so as to be seen as a martyr.
My other prediction: Bush will not be elected for a second term.

good predictions all. I agree with most of them but one thing though: bullies dont usually take to being martyrs. They usually either run away or die pathetically.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by azalea
Here are my predictons:
Saddam may end up going into exile at the last minute -- just because he SAYS he's not going to doesn't mean that when it comes down to it he won't.
However, I don't think he will because I think in his mind he believes he will "defeat" the U.S., but not militarily. He has not allowed anyone to leave Baghdad. A top Iraqi official said off the record that he secretly had his family leave, although it was forbidden. Saddam wants as many casualties as possible so that the U.S. looks like butchers when civilians are killed in airstrikes, or whatever. He will use his chemical weapons, blow up things, use suicide missions, etc. He will die so as to be seen as a martyr.
My other prediction: Bush will not be elected for a second term.

Actually Saddam has already publicly stated on Iraqi TV this past night after the ultimatum, that he and his sons aren't leaving and they will stand and fight. When giving his speech to the Iraqi people he was in military uniform....

*see's Saddam walking by and yells out "Dead man walking!"* hehe sorry I just had to

I am not too sure about your second prediction. Here is the sole reason why. This war will make & break reputations. If it is found, which I highly suspect, that Iraq does have the things such as WMD and whatnot that various intelligence reports from various countries say then finally the US will be vindicated and the others who back and agreed, whereas those who wanted nothing to do with war for "lack of evidence" or things like that will have their careers flushed down the toilet persay. So that's what it will really come down to, plus I think the majority of Americans have seen the growth of Bush. For myself, I didn't vote for him, and didn't really like him all that much, but now I am glad he is my President and wouldn't have it any other way...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
good predictions all. I agree with most of them but one thing though: bullies dont usually take to being martyrs. They usually either run away or die pathetically.

The Bush being reelected is entirely up to how well the war goes and whether the US economy has been stuck because of this endless diplomacy (which is what I think). Also - it will depend on if we catch Osama Bin Ladin or kill him and also if there are any more terrorist attacks. There are a lot of ifs right now - and the democrats could be stabbing themselves in the back if everything goes well. They've had polls this past week that indicate that if the election was now - Bush would win.

[Rían]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
I think there is a chance of him leaving Iraq - I mean he seems like a coward. If I were in his place, I would leave asap - thousands of american troops ready to take your country in a matter of days.

I think there is just a small chance of this happening at the last minute, because I think bullies are cowardly. He might say something like "because I love my people so much (those I haven't tortured/gassed), I have decided, along with my family (and my sizeable bank accounts) to be a martyr and leave the land I love and go into exile (at some posh beach resort)."

BUt I doubt it will happen...

[Rían]

Originally posted by Baby-K
I'm so sad about this war Such a waste..............so many innocent people who will be killed Hopefully it will be over very fast & the losses will be minimal.

So many innocent people who have already been killed by their own leaders ... war is horrible, but hopefully it will bring the horrible things already going on to a stop.

Strikes me as strange that a few of the "good Christians" here (and across the world) would support such a thing............yet another reason for me to rather not call myself one

Why does it strike you strange? A MAJOR theme in the Bible is rescuing the oppressed and helping those who are weak and cannot help themselves. This is NOT to say Christians should immediately be FOR every war that says it will help oppressed people, however, because there is also wisdom involved as to timing and other things, IMO. But I see no overall Biblical reason to immediately say no to any war; do you?

[Snowdog]

The Texas cowboy is calling Saddam out. Marshall Bush says to Saddam.. "You and yer boys will be gettin' out of town by Sundown Wednesday, or else be ready fer the consequences...."

I am hoping since we are obviously going in, that we have a workable plan, a contigency plan and an exit stratagy, and that loss of life is kept to a minimum.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
The Bush being reelected is entirely up to how well the war goes and whether the US economy has been stuck because of this endless diplomacy (which is what I think). Also - it will depend on if we catch Osama Bin Ladin or kill him and also if there are any more terrorist attacks. There are a lot of ifs right now - and the democrats could be stabbing themselves in the back if everything goes well. They've had polls this past week that indicate that if the election was now - Bush would win.

yeah but remember how it was for George Bush Sr. Triumphant victory and less then a year later kicked out the door over tax issues.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
yeah but remember how it was for George Bush Sr. Triumphant victory and less then a year later kicked out the door over tax issues.

He also said "Read my lips, no new taxes." Then he implemented new taxes, lol...

[Sister Golden Hair]

What the hell is up with the French?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Are admins allowed to swear?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Are admins allowed to swear?

Yeah! When they're mad. Is "hell" a bad word?