Eru/Fate - Page 4

durinsbane2244 · 05-27-2006, 03:31 PM

good choices...i always liked them and felt sorry for them...

Landroval · 05-27-2006, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammi567

i would chose either Maedhros or Maglor because although they took the Oath willingly, they really seemed to repent it, especially in the later years.

It is highly unlikely that they would; they were driven by the curse of Mandos, which was lifted only after the war of wrath and by their oath.

durinsbane2244 · 05-27-2006, 03:54 PM

yes, but this would be a perfect oppurtunity for redemption...

jammi567 · 05-27-2006, 04:15 PM

excactly my point. oh, and on the subject of Maglor, do you think that he is still wandering "ever upon the shores, singing in pain and regret beside the waves" by the end of the third age?

durinsbane2244 · 05-28-2006, 04:21 PM

dunno...aragorn or cirdan or gandalf would've found him, i think...

jammi567 · 05-28-2006, 04:23 PM

if they had found him, what would they've done?

durinsbane2244 · 05-28-2006, 04:52 PM

a good question...i dunno, really...but wait! aren't we a tad off-topic, jammi?

jammi567 · 05-28-2006, 05:33 PM

Also, how much did Sauron persuade Morgoth to do things in the first age? Or was Morgoth such a brill tactitioner that he didn't need any help?

durinsbane2244 · 05-28-2006, 05:46 PM

maybe EVERYTHING was Sauron's idea, and Melkor was just a pushover?

jammi567 · 05-28-2006, 05:50 PM

might be.

durinsbane2244 · 05-28-2006, 06:45 PM

i can just picture it...hm...i should formulate my thoughts and go post in the "they'd never say that" thread...guest star Melkor...

jammi567 · 05-28-2006, 06:59 PM

nice thoughts @ http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...460#post549460

durinsbane2244 · 05-28-2006, 07:02 PM

ah, thankee jam! i was just going to come tell everyone to go look too!

hehe...daisies...i just added a bit though...

jammi567 · 05-28-2006, 07:09 PM

much better now edited.

durinsbane2244 · 05-28-2006, 07:54 PM

thank you, thank you!

Landroval · 05-29-2006, 01:48 AM

[QUOTE=jammi567]Also, how much did Sauron persuade Morgoth to do things in the first age? QUOTE]
I wouldn't say so:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valaquenta, Silmarillion

In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void.

And in Myths Transofrmed, it is further said that Sauron had adored his master

jammi567 · 05-29-2006, 05:27 AM

so your point is?

durinsbane2244 · 05-29-2006, 10:15 AM

methinks they're saying that sauron didn't persuade them to do anything and that everything was morgoth's idea and sauron just followed because he loved and honored morgoth...just a vague guess though...

Landroval · 05-29-2006, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by durinsbane2244

methinks they're saying that sauron didn't persuade them to do anything and that everything was morgoth's idea and sauron just followed because he loved and honored morgoth...just a vague guess though...

Indeed. My messed-up post was due to writing from work

Another interesting bit from the Myths about Melkor pursuing only his designs:

"The time of Melkor's greatest power, therefore, was in the physical beginnings of the World; a vast demiurgic lust for power and the achievement of his own will and designs, on a great scale. And later after things had become more stable, Melkor was more interested in and capable of dealing with a volcanic eruption, for example, than with (say) a tree. It is indeed probable that he was simply unaware of the minor or more delicate productions of Yavanna: such as small flowers (If such things were forced upon his attention, he was angry and hated them, as coming from other minds than his own)."

durinsbane2244 · 05-29-2006, 04:39 PM

so yeah, melkor was a control-freak...

05-27-2006, 03:31 PM	#61
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	good choices...i always liked them and felt sorry for them... __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

05-27-2006, 03:54 PM	#63
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	yes, but this would be a perfect oppurtunity for redemption... __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

05-27-2006, 04:15 PM	#64
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	excactly my point. oh, and on the subject of Maglor, do you think that he is still wandering "ever upon the shores, singing in pain and regret beside the waves" by the end of the third age? __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. Last edited by jammi567 : 05-27-2006 at 04:57 PM.

05-28-2006, 04:21 PM	#65
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	dunno...aragorn or cirdan or gandalf would've found him, i think... __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

05-28-2006, 04:23 PM	#66
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	if they had found him, what would they've done? __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

05-28-2006, 04:52 PM	#67
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	a good question...i dunno, really...but wait! aren't we a tad off-topic, jammi? __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

05-28-2006, 05:33 PM	#68
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	Also, how much did Sauron persuade Morgoth to do things in the first age? Or was Morgoth such a brill tactitioner that he didn't need any help? __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

05-28-2006, 05:46 PM	#69
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	maybe EVERYTHING was Sauron's idea, and Melkor was just a pushover? __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

05-28-2006, 05:50 PM	#70
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	might be. __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

05-28-2006, 06:45 PM	#71
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	i can just picture it...hm...i should formulate my thoughts and go post in the "they'd never say that" thread...guest star Melkor... __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

05-28-2006, 06:59 PM	#72
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	nice thoughts @ http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...460#post549460 __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

05-28-2006, 07:02 PM	#73
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	ah, thankee jam! i was just going to come tell everyone to go look too! hehe...daisies...i just added a bit though... __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... Last edited by durinsbane2244 : 05-28-2006 at 07:04 PM.

05-28-2006, 07:09 PM	#74
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	much better now edited. __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

05-28-2006, 07:54 PM	#75
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	thank you, thank you! __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

05-29-2006, 05:27 AM	#77
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	so your point is? __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

05-29-2006, 10:15 AM	#78
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	methinks they're saying that sauron didn't persuade them to do anything and that everything was morgoth's idea and sauron just followed because he loved and honored morgoth...just a vague guess though... __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

05-29-2006, 04:39 PM	#80
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	so yeah, melkor was a control-freak... __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...