How did you begin to like LotR??

[Curufin]

However, and now I'm not trying to point a finger at you or anyone else, sometimes I get the feeling that I'm "not allowed" to like Tolkien because I haven't read all of his books and am thus quite ignorant of some of the background.

This isn't what I feel or mean to get across at all.

As I said (and will say again) - the definition of a 'fan' should be self-defined - if you say you're a Tolkien fan, then I'll believe you. As for the other books, well, it just depends what you like. If you're not interested in the topics in The Sil or The HoME, then don't read them! I'm not going to think any less of people who don't enjoy that stuff. Even I'll say that the HoME can get tediously academic sometimes (do I really care what color ink that note was written in...? ). I put off reading Children of Húrin for a year because I can't stand the character. I don't think that makes me less of a Tolkien fan. Just as I don't think less of you because you haven't read the Silm and The HoME. I asked Kennashi for two reasons - a) someone did something very similar to me when I joined the other board, that was how I found the texts in the first place. 2) I want to know who out there has read all these texts so I know who I can discuss them with. Nothing snobbish or 'uppity' about my intentions.

You've got to realize, people, I've come here from a board where the Lit forums are beyond snobby. I read most of the books the first time simply so that I could take part in discussion, and I still feel unable and unworthy in a lot of cases. It takes a bit of time to get over that kind of atmosphere.

[Mari]

Haha, I never meant to upset you and never felt like you tried to push me into reading something I don't want to read (I'm very difficult to push into anything really, if I don't want to be pushed).
Sorry. *hugs*

I just tried to raise awareness that if I can sometimes feel like that, that there are probably others feeling the same.



For the record, I don't consider myself a Tolkien-fan, but rather someone who loves the Hobbit and the LotR and all its possibilities.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

It seems to me that on an Internet Message Board based upon an author of several books, the question of who has already read what is more than appropriate, especially for new people. It isn't to put them down, it is to find out what they already know and what they don't. In addition to then being able to make recommendations, you also know when you're providing that person with desired information or spoilers.

For instance, one poster who has read LotR and TH, but nothing else from Tolkien may be interested in learning all the details of Aragorn's ring, The Ring of Barahir, here online.

Another poster in the same situation, may want to discover that information for himself/herself by reading The Silmarillion.

Without asking what a person has already read, one of the more-read posters might spill the beans and spoil that part of the story.

I find the assumption that people who have read a lot of Tolkien are condescending snobs a bit insulting, quite frankly.

[Mari]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

I find the assumption that people who have read a lot of Tolkien are condescending snobs a bit insulting, quite frankly.

If you are referring to my post earlier, I think you misread it.
I do not assume people who have done so are "condescending snobs", or snobs at all. I did not even say that people are actively acting in such a way.
I just told you what I sometimes feel, which is my problem entirely, but that it may be possible that there are others who feel impressed too.
I'm sorry if you feel insulted, it was not meant in such a way. It wasn't even meant as a critique and if I made it sound as such, I apologize again.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I'm not referring to any specific post, Mari. It's all good.

[Mari]

Yay! ^_^

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Look, guys. This is not your old board.

Originally Posted by Curufin

Anyone who knows me knows that I'm not that kind of a person.

But no one here knows you, Curu. We're working on it, but we don't.

Originally Posted by Curufin

This isn't what I feel or mean to get across at all.

Yes, that's why anyone is trying, here. This represents the benefit of the doubt, for a newbie.

I asked Kennashi for two reasons - a) someone did something very similar to me when I joined the other board, that was how I found the texts in the first place. 2) I want to know who out there has read all these texts so I know who I can discuss them with. Nothing snobbish or 'uppity' about my intentions.

You've got to realize, people, I've come here from a board where the Lit forums are beyond snobby. I read most of the books the first time simply so that I could take part in discussion, and I still feel unable and unworthy in a lot of cases. It takes a bit of time to get over that kind of atmosphere.

How about saying it a little less confrontively? You spoke to someone with fewer than a dozen posts, who said they "found Tolkien through the movies" with what looked to me like a humorous take on that kind of political litmus test and you said, 'you've read the book?" then "ALL the books?" It struck me as aggressive, and I reflected that to you.

I reflected that to you because I thought you would not WANT to seem aggressive, here in your new online home. You can do with that what you will.

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

It seems to me that on an Internet Message Board based upon an author of several books, the question of who has already read what is more than appropriate, especially for new people. It isn't to put them down, it is to find out what they already know and what they don't. In addition to then being able to make recommendations, you also know when you're providing that person with desired information or spoilers.

For instance, one poster who has read LotR and TH, but nothing else from Tolkien may be interested in learning all the details of Aragorn's ring, The Ring of Barahir, here online.

Another poster in the same situation, may want to discover that information for himself/herself by reading The Silmarillion.

Without asking what a person has already read, one of the more-read posters might spill the beans and spoil that part of the story.

I find the assumption that people who have read a lot of Tolkien are condescending snobs a bit insulting, quite frankly.

No one here thinks people who have read a lot of Tolkien are snobs. But if you really want to know what people have SAID about their experience, tastes or interests you can look at their posts. You can search the forums. You can start a thread (if there isn't one) about the Ring of Barahir, with a spoilers warning.

Jumping posters for their credentials (even if it's done out of excitement, and meant as a friendly overture) is being perceived as aggressive. Here. Not on your old board, not by people who know you well, not someplace where such behavior is common.

Personally, I like the Moot. I like talking, in a pleasant way, with people I don't know, who range in age and background. I would be very sad to see it become a "Tolkien board" in the manner of the ones I've heard about (and sometimes lurked) where every post is scrutinized and the poster evaluated. When this looks like that kind of bullying, I take an interest.

I am certainly relieved to be told none of this is meant that way. I would be more relieved to hear that the described behaviors are, at least theoretically, subject to reassessment.

[Earniel]

Let me, as spokeperson for the mod team (don't look at me like that, let me feel important for a moment ) clarify that all people, regardless of what they've read are welcome. And that rank or appreciation of members does not depend on how much they have read. If we encourage people to read more, it should be because we want to spread the love around.

I would sadden me a great deal if people don't want to visit our Tolkien forums for fear of being judged by what books they have read.

[Curufin]

And that rank or appreciation of members does not depend on how much they have read. If we encourage people to read more, it should be because we want to spread the love around.

This is all I'm trying to do, Eärniel. I have never judged people as 'better' or 'lacking' because of what they have (or haven't) read, nor will I. Although I feel I am being judged in that way. I agree with DPR's quote:

I find the assumption that people who have read a lot of Tolkien are condescending snobs a bit insulting, quite frankly.

[Earniel]

That's all I ask. (The trying bit of course, not the feeling judged bit, that latter is really not my intention.)

I find the assumption that people who have read a lot of Tolkien are condescending snobs a bit insulting, quite frankly.

I would find that insulting too, considering I count myself in that group, but I don't think that assumption is wide-spread here on the Entmoot.

Now I think we've all got a little more upset than the situation warrants. How about some drink in the Teacup? I'm buying.

[Jon S.]

I hereby judge anyone who doesn't like the films a condescending snob.

Just kidding!

Seriously, I still remember reading the LOTR in high school. I learned nothing official for 3 days as a result but became a better man for it.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Three days! That's some fast and/or intense reading right there. Good job.

[Curufin]

Yeah, no joke. That's like 24-7 reading, there.

[Varnafindë]

The first I ever heard about it, was when a friend of mine in high school was reading it. I remember her talking about Gandalf and Strider - I didn't try to tackle it myself. Too large a chunk of English at that time.

I read it a couple of years later when it had been translated.

Then a couple of years later again I went to England for a year to study "English Language and Literature for Overseas Students" for a year, and that's when I bought my own copy. I didn't buy The Silmarillion, though, even though that would have given me a First Edition - I flicked through it and found that it wasn't really my cup of tea.

It is an accquired taste.
Now I love that taste

Even LotR wasn't my favorite set of books (that would be, and still is, The Chronicles of Narnia). What really piqued my interest about it after a while (and probably after having read it at least twice), was realising that Tolkien's alfabets were all about phonetics!

I told a friend about it, and she got me to give a small lecture about it in the Oslo Tolkien Society ("Arthedain"). One person in the audience - he was possibly the Arthedain chairman at the time - later translated Silmarillion into Norwegian (he's also done Unfinished Tales and The Children of Hurin).

I like the way Tolkien makes the Tengwar and the Cirth reflect the way sounds are articulated. I like the systematical nature of those alfabeths

[Coffeehouse]

Cool didn't know there was a Oslo Tolkien Society That's cool!

I should get to a lecture someday if they are held frequently (and I'm lucky enough to be in town)

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse

Cool didn't know there was a Oslo Tolkien Society That's cool!

I should get to a lecture someday if they are held frequently (and I'm lucky enough to be in town)

It's not called the Oslo Tolkien Society, though, that's just what it is

It's called Arthedain, and they meet once a month at the University.

I went to several meetings a couple of years ago, but I haven't been for a long time now, even though I live in town. Do you live far away?
If you PM me your email address, I could mail you a link to their mailing list.

[katya]

I haven't read all the comments yet, but let me just clarify what I was getting at in my last post. It seems that everyone who says they found LotR though the movies is apologizing for it, or seem somewhat ashamed of it. I'm just saying that the movies have been out for a long time now, and there's a whole lot less of the "I love Lord of the Rings because Orlando Bloom is hawt!" people around. Also, if you're still into LotR/Tolkien even now, then obviously you must like it a lot, and so, fine. I just don't think there's a need for stigma anymore.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by katya

I haven't read all the comments yet, but let me just clarify what I was getting at in my last post. It seems that everyone who says they found LotR though the movies is apologizing for it, or seem somewhat ashamed of it. I'm just saying that the movies have been out for a long time now, and there's a whole lot less of the "I love Lord of the Rings because Orlando Bloom is hawt!" people around. Also, if you're still into LotR/Tolkien even now, then obviously you must like it a lot, and so, fine. I just don't think there's a need for stigma anymore.

I guess your on to something.
My younger sisters hadn't read the books before they watched the movies, yet now they are both fans of LOTR, and I think both have read the Hobbit

(Digressing here..)
Personally I was lost for words when I heard the movies would come (not in a negative way) cause it just seemed the perfect timing. I know some in here seem to not approve of the movies, but I think their excellent. Especially the music and the different themes conveyed throughout the movie. F.ex. the music played, "The Last March of the Ents", when the Ents move out to shake up Sarumann's evil, is just musical genious

But I see nothing wrong with people watching the movies first, then the books. Eventually they'll love the books more hehe

[Willow Oran]

I fully agree with you regarding the scene 'The Last March of the Ents' and the accompanying music. I can forgive a lot of the movies' flaws, just for that scene.

[Curufin]

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse

I guess your on to something.
My younger sisters hadn't read the books before they watched the movies, yet now they are both fans of LOTR, and I think both have read the Hobbit
...But I see nothing wrong with people watching the movies first, then the books. Eventually they'll love the books more hehe

I hadn't read the books either, before my brother and his friend dragged me to see it. Fantasy wasn't my cup of tea, and at that time I thought Tolkien was for pimply sixteen-year old boys who stayed home and played Dungeons and Dragons and had no social lives. I always have agreed with Katya - as much as I dislike the movies, the one good thing they have done is get some people to read the book, and I will always be grateful to PJ for introducing me to Tolkien's world, even if he did destroy it in the films.

(Digressing here..)
Personally I was lost for words when I heard the movies would come (not in a negative way) cause it just seemed the perfect timing. I know some in here seem to not approve of the movies, but I think their excellent. Especially the music and the different themes conveyed throughout the movie.

The music was good, and I particularly like the Rohirrim theme.

I can't agree with you, however, that the movies were excellent. Sorry.