The Instrumentalists Thread

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Sorry! Had a crazy last two days.

The lesson went sooooooooooo well. I had a ton of fun! The only thing is the girl was CLEARLY anxious about me. I don't know if I made her nervous because I'm tall or what, but I kept wanting to say, "Calm down, I'm not going to bite you." I had a hint from our email exchanges that she seemed like the nervous type, so I went in very "calm" (as opposed to my typical cheerfulness) and by the end of the lesson she seemed to calm down a little... not sure what her reaction to my full personality would have been.

That is strange! o.0 Good thing you toned it down

The things that give me SOOOO much trouble have to do with piano. I am not used to "placing" my hands for phrases the way you have to for harp... it's a totally different mind-game from "fingerings" for piano. Then I want to put my thumbs down with my other fingers, like you do in piano, but I have to keep my thumbs up.

What did I tell ya?! Those are the two most difficult things to do, but the two most critical things to do - that's why I said take lessons RIGHT NOW BEFORE YOU PLAY THE HARP AT ALL!!!! (or did I mention the thumb spacing? I don't remember ... but yes, that's hard!) The placing thing is even harder than the thumb thing - totally unnatural, but wow, does it work!!!! Stick with it!

I think I surprised her at a few points... because three or four times I got into that musical "groove" where you suddenly aren't thinking, and everything works. I'd be moving slowly through the song, making sure I had the right strings (luckily from all my years of piano/penywhistle/singing/guitar/STUFF I can read Bass and Treble cleff without thinking, so I always knew what pitch I was aiming for, just trying to remember which string was which pitch)... and then all of the sudden I'd just play two measures in a row without stopping or thinking... and then I'd be looking for notes again. It's like, "I THINK HE'S GOT IT!... Okay wait, he's looking for "A" again..."

Good for you! You're definitely musically talented

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Rian, have you seen the "Sweetharps" by Caswell? One neat thing is the dye jobs he can do on them!!!

I am tempted, but hesitant. From all of my research, I feel like what I REALLY want is a Ravenna 34. The tone is gorgeous, and they're relatively inexpensive (around $2,000)... but it looks like I'd have to pay it all upfront, and I'm not sure I could fit one in my car... so no taking it to play with the folk group.

The Sweetharp has 29 strings (which seems like a good starting instrument), and it's much smaller than the Ravenna 34 (hence why the tone suffers). There's a Ravenna 26, but I feel like that's too few strings (I want that low C), and I don't love the tone. Also the Sweetharp has some truly awesome features (the tuning knobs for starters!), AND the Sweetharps have a rent-to-own program.

I'm torn, but the more I think about it the more I feel like I should get a harp as soon as possible so that I can practice. I'm completely enchanted and I want to start playing!! I haven't been like this about an instrument since I started to get interested in voice when I was 15. I remember I started watching endless YouTube videos and listening to ump-tee-billions of singers... and of course I still spend the majority of my free time listening to singers and trying to find new ones. But now I feel the same way about harp. O_o I feel a much stronger attraction to the harp than I have towards violin.

I'd wait a bit before buying - at least a month, or a few lessons - I'd hate for you to buy one, then want another after you get better, like I did ... can you rent? I find it pretty easy to go from one harp to another, as long as the string spacing is the same (most of them are). Be sure to get standard string spacing! I have my Celtic harp, and I could easily move to my mom's gigantor lever harp, but not to her Celtic harp, which had smaller spacing between strings for some reason.

But I can understand you wanting to get one RIGHT AWAY!!!!!

Yeah, it's tough to choose between portability and sound - don't get any less than 26 strings! But after that, things definitely get much less portable ... but somewhat better sound. I like how mine has the screw-in legs. I have a harp case, and you screw off the legs and put them in the little holder in the case. Then when you get somewhere, you screw them back in. You can also just leave them on and just don't zip the bottom.

I wish I had like a 32-string or so, but I can't imagine transporting it but you're a BIG AND STRONG GUY (I hope your teacher isn't listening and getting scared! )

Anyway, I'm SOOOOO happy you like it I just LOVE it! And now I can talk harp with someone! Yay!

[Rían]

I just checked out the harps you named, and I must say, that Ravenna 34 is lookin' pretty good ...

But IMO, the MOST IMPORTANT THING is to ACTUALLY PLAY the instrument before buying it - they have SUCH personalities! Is there a harp store near you? What kind of harp does your teacher have? I think it would be worth a trip to a harp dealer to check out the actual harp before you buy ...

[Tessar]

There is a potential to rent via Harpconnection.com, but the problem is that only the first 4 months of rent are transferable if you end up wanting to buy the harp (technically 6 months... 4 months, then half of the next four months, but you're losing out on two months rent), and then if you don't like the harp and want another you have to pay shipping back to the store as well as shipping for the new harp!!!!! That'll eat a couple hundred easy.

[Tessar]

The nearest store that sells harps is a good 2.5 hours away, and the selection is three harps. BUT one of them is the Ravenna 34, which may be a sign from God.

My teacher suggested keeping an eye on ebay, harpconnection, and the website of another store which is three or four hours away. Buuuut she also suggested one of the Mid-eastern harps, and even a tiny bit of research showed me those things are bad news... I was a bit surprised to hear her even suggest it. They're cheap, but I've read lots of horror stories of the things basically breaking within a short period of ownership.

My teacher has a Lyon and Healy harp, which is another brand I just love... but they're more expensive, and I think I prefer the Ravenna's tone coloring.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I
I wish I had like a 32-string or so, but I can't imagine transporting it but you're a BIG AND STRONG GUY (I hope your teacher isn't listening and getting scared! )

Rian, have you looked at the weight of the Ravenna? It's only about 20lb, and I would imagine you are probably capable of moving around something that weight... I see your point though, it looks like some of the others are quite a bit heavier than that.

Anyway, I'm SOOOOO happy you like it I just LOVE it! And now I can talk harp with someone! Yay!

WHEEE!!! Talk harpie to me!!!

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Tessar

There is a potential to rent via Harpconnection.com, but the problem is that only the first 4 months of rent are transferable if you end up wanting to buy the harp (technically 6 months... 4 months, then half of the next four months, but you're losing out on two months rent), and then if you don't like the harp and want another you have to pay shipping back to the store as well as shipping for the new harp!!!!! That'll eat a couple hundred easy.

Yeah, on those terms, that's a no-go, I think. I forgot about shipping ...

Originally Posted by Tessar

The nearest store that sells harps is a good 2.5 hours away, and the selection is three harps. BUT one of them is the Ravenna 34, which may be a sign from God.

I think so!!! And seriously, I would STRONGLY recommend that 2.5 hr drive. Maybe you could even save on shipping that way?

My teacher suggested keeping an eye on ebay, harpconnection, and the website of another store which is three or four hours away. Buuuut she also suggested one of the Mid-eastern harps, and even a tiny bit of research showed me those things are bad news... I was a bit surprised to hear her even suggest it. They're cheap, but I've read lots of horror stories of the things basically breaking within a short period of ownership.

I'd be nervous about a used harp, unless it was with a harp store, and I agree with you about the mid-eastern harps. But OTOH, if it's reeeeeely cheap (like $200) maybe it's worth it, just so you can have your own harp with you, so you can play whenever you get a bit of time. I don't know, just a thought. Then patiently wait until your perfect harp spouse comes along!

My teacher has a Lyon and Healy harp, which is another brand I just love... but they're more expensive, and I think I prefer the Ravenna's tone coloring.

Yes, the L&Hs are nice, from what I remember.

Originally Posted by Tessar

Rian, have you looked at the weight of the Ravenna? It's only about 20lb, and I would imagine you are probably capable of moving around something that weight... I see your point though, it looks like some of the others are quite a bit heavier than that.

It's not only the weight, it's the size of the thing. Even if the Rav34 (hee hee - just came up with that name!) was the exact same weight as mine, it would be a lot harder to handle because it looks wider, AND it would fit in less cars. You need to get the height/width dimensions, even more than the weight. Your arms have to be able to reach around to both edges to pick it up. But you're tall, so you probably have long arms. But measure your car's storage area ... you'd hate to be off by an inch!

[Rían]

I just played a bit (are you jealous? ) - stupid shoulder surgeries! But it's a little better.

Anyway, that made me want to come back and give you a little more advice - even though you want to play music, work hard on your tone (finger placement on the string; plucking technique) and your technique (that pesky hand placement!) - this will REALLY pay off big down the line.

There are some songs that I figured out myself (from listening to some recordings) before I took lessons, and there is a huge difference between them and the songs that I figured out and/or learned after lessons. It's just impossible to play well without the placing technique, and the tone technique sounds so much better than just plucking how it's natural to pluck.

[Earniel]

You know, it's a bit weird how the harp's been popping up lately. Last week we had a Street Fair in the street where our shop's located and I was minding the our booth we had outside. The neigbours usually have musicians performing in their booth. Last year they had a harpist and I really enjoyed his playing. Time flew past. I had been kind of hoping they'd invite him again this year but they had someone with electrical guitar instead. He wasn't bad either, but I had enjoyed listening to the harp more. And now you two are raving about harps as well.

I may as well ask what would be good harp pieces (classical or otherwise) and harpists? Since it seems I might as well use this sudden harp-drive to extend my music collection with some harp. (Don't bother suggesting Loreena McKennit. Already have pretty much all her CD's)

[Varnafindë]

Now that you're talking harp, I'm going to read this thread much more regularly

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

You know, it's a bit weird how the harp's been popping up lately.

YEAH, BECAUSE.... ... ... *struggles to find a joke* ... popping up........ funny....... ... ... .... harp.

... never mind.

I may as well ask what would be good harp pieces (classical or otherwise) and harpists? Since it seems I might as well use this sudden harp-drive to extend my music collection with some harp. (Don't bother suggesting Loreena McKennit. Already have pretty much all her CD's)

LOREENA MCKENNITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.



These are who I've been discovering and loving:

Classical

Isabelle Moretti, playing Le Source by Hasselmans

Xavier de Maistre playing Faure's Impromptu Op. 86 (I may not be right about the number. I think it's Op. 86)

Best of both worlds... Diana Damrau and Xavier de Maistre singing/playing Clair de Lune by Debussy

I don't think this is a 'famous' harpist, but I am in love with Bach fugues, and it blows my mind that she plays a fugue on the freakin' harp.

Celtic

"Maker and the Breaker" a neat little youtube channel... she is an amature harp player, but I've really enjoyed her videos.

Mark Harmer... does a little of both styles

Molly Bauckham. Beautiful harp playing and singing... and this one is a beautiful Loreena McKennitt song, Snow

Sarah Deere-Jones

Yasmeen, a singer/harpist. Very interesting because, according to her website, she improvises most of what she performs while performing it.

Sylvia Woods... sheer awesomeness.


Some of those people (Isabelle M., Xavier, Molly Bauchham, Sarah Deere-Jones, Yasmeen, and Sylvia Woods) do have CDs, but I've really enjoyed a lot of the amateur youtube channels I've stumbled across.


As far as songs, I can almost promise you that anything credited to "O'Carolan" is going to be beautiful. His stuff is very famous, although as with most ancient composers I sincerely doubt that everything is really his... if any of it. A lot of the time, back in the day, struggling composers would write something and stamp the name of a "master" on it just to sell it or get people to pay attention. Like writing a book and claiming that J. K. Rowling wrote it.

[Tessar]

Rian, I am tempted to get something like a fair-quality $300-400 harp (probably 26ish strings) but get it without the sharping levers. I realize that does limit me somewhat, BUT I was thinking about it last night and I have more than enough musical ability to transpose music from whatever key it's already in down into C. Depending on the song's complexity, I cant always do it "at sight," but it takes me just a few minutes to rewrite something simple.

My thought is that until I can get a harp to practice on, I am basically tossing $40 for an hour lesson away... I can read music, and the technique is what I need to practice, so unlike a true beginner I think it doesn't make a lot of sense for me to take lessons without a harp to practice on. I know for a real beginner there is so much to learn that it does make sense, but all I need is to sit down in front of a harp and get it in my fingers/eyes where the notes are and practice the proper technique.

[Rían]

Tessar, you ABSOUTELY need a harp at home to practice on, RIGHT NOW, whether you rent or borrow or buy an inexpensive one. Those moments where you think "oh, what if I do this?" or "I really want to try that!" or "I just wanna play this" and you just grab your harp and fiddle around with it are priceless, both in terms of experience gained and just sheer pleasure That's a good idea to get one without sharping levers to save money.

(I'm so excited - I don't think I've used this many capitals in posts since I've been here! )

Maybe you misunderstood me - the only thing that I was cautioning you about waiting on was spending a LOT of money buying a really good harp, because as you play, you'll find out what is important to YOU, and if you've already spend a good deal of money, you may not be able to get another good harp for a long, long time. But I don't know - being so musical, and having such good tips from other harpists maybe you know enough now for a big purchase. I'm definitely leaning towards the Rav34, from what you've said. Just be sure to get the size measurements and make sure it will fit in your ride!

I'm kinda ambivilant about my harp - I LOVE the tone, and I LOVE the size, yet I really, REALLY regret not having those 4 lower strings because 1) they make it SO much easier playing chord inversions in the left hand - you just shift your two lower fingers down a string or two while keeping the upper string anchored, and 2) low notes on a harp are just gorgeous! Yet the size is so nice and easy to handle for me at home, and (not having a ring of power ) being a woman in her 50s with shoulder issues and other issues where I'm not very strong. It's just a nice, manageable size, and the tone is gorgeous.

(but I miss those lower strings! and occasionally, I come across a piece I like that uses those strings, so I just have to change that lower chord around, but that's do-able.)

Anyway, if we had a lot of extra money (which I don't forsee happening in the near future!) I'd buy a slightly larger harp, but for now, I should just be really, really grateful that I have my own very nice harp and I am

(but I miss those lower strings!!!!)

[Rían]

Thoughts on levers -

You really want a full set of them on your good harp. Or maybe just a partial set - the most I've used is 5 (levers for A, E, B, F, G) which is what you use when you tune your harp to 3 flats and you play pieces from 3 flats to 2 sharps. But you're going to be a lot better than I am, and you are a professional musician, and you really might need all of them. Start asking around - maybe even call the Sylvia Woods store and talk to them. You can always add levers, but I'm sure it's a lot cheaper and WAY more convenient to have them put in at first. Ehh, as I think of it, nevermind - they might be a different kind, or put in differently, and that would be a drag. Decide how many you need, and get them put in at the beginning.

I tune my harp to 2 flats now. I used to tune it to 3 flats, because there's a song I really, REALLY want to learn eventually that's in 3 flats (I don't have the music for it, but I just do it by ear), but I finally got realistic and realized that I'm so limited right now that I just need to heal up and get stronger and work up all the other pieces I know, and that will take a while yet, and there's PLENTY of songs in 2 flats and up. So I went ahead and went to 2 flats, because I have 2 pieces that I play in 2 flats and I wanted to just be able to grab the harp and start playing instead of throwing levers, and the strings really DO sound just a bit better when they're not levered. Just a teensy tiny bit, because I have good levers. Mainly I just wanted to not have to throw levers before I started playing (I mean, it took me all of 4 seconds, but hey! when you wanna play, you wanna play! )

I'd be interested in hearing your harp teacher's opinion - what does she tune her harp to, and how many levers has she used? You definitely need the little buggers - it's cool to use then in a piece, and you can get this really cool effect by moving the lever partially up and down on a vibrating string - kind of a moving grace note thing.

Grainne Hambly is such a stud - she flips her levers all the time in her pieces. The most I've ever done is one flip in a piece, and also the moving lever effect, which is really cool sounding.

Oh, and DEFINITELY get color-coded levers - not all of them, just the C and F, like the strings. What I did was put the elvish characters for E on my E-levers, and I marked my A-levers with another color, so I could find them quickly, too (and also be reminded of our favorite author )

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

Now that you're talking harp, I'm going to read this thread much more regularly

Are you a harpist? or is it just fun to read? (like me not being a singer but enjoying reading the vocalist thread)

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Sylvia Woods... sheer awesomeness.

OMGoodness - I play the piece she's playing!!! When you first click on that link, the piece that she's playing is something that she wrote, and that I play! (but not nearly as fast she's a stud!) It's the last two movements of her piece "In the Forest" from "The Harp of Brandiswhiere". There's a lot of good pieces in it, but that one is one of my favorite favorites. How fun to see her play - I only knew her as an older woman in a harp store at first, then I found out that she was very, very good (winning competitions in Ireland!), but I've never seen her play. How fun to think that she played my harp I'm definitely going to check out all her Youtubes now. And I was reading about her on Wiki - I didn't realize what an important figure she was in harp history. Wow!

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

being so musical, and having such good tips from other harpists maybe you know enough now for a big purchase. I'm definitely leaning towards the Rav34, from what you've said. Just be sure to get the size measurements and make sure it will fit in your ride!

One of the things that I believe is in my favor is that I seem to have an unusually well-developed sense of timbre and sound color. It has taken me some time to adjust to the colors of harps, but I feel like I'm able to listen and judge the sound quality of the harps fairly well.

I think everyone can hear it, but some people are not aware of what they're hearing, and some others aren't as able to judge it. But I've been told by a couple of voice teachers that my ear for color and sound quality is really above average.

But lets get real. Without Rian I'd just be a chump with a dream. I do love getting your feedback. I've learned so much from your suggestions and comments already.

being a woman fine looking chick in her 50s with shoulder issues and other issues where I'm not very strong.

That sentence was bothering me. But I fixed it now. Hehe.


I believe my teacher plays in all the keys. She explained to me that she had years and years of lessons, then went to college for English because she was already making a lot of money playing at weddings and thought, "Why should I get a degree in music to keep doing what I'm already doing?" It sounds like she does at least one wedding a weekend, sometimes more... hence why I believe she would play in all of the keys. Brides ask for some really interesting music some times. O_o


I am really, really leaning towards that Sweetharp. I like the 29 strings, love the design, and am particularly excited by the tuning mechanisms. Having spent a fair amount of time tuning guitar/violin, those tuning pegs he puts on look like they're right up my alley. Although I think I'll miss the depth of sound that floor harps have, the Sweetharp looks really portable (8 lb) and it has a pretty tone.

But I'm sort of torn between a Harpsicle vs. the Sweetharp. I like both of the sounds, and neither one goes any lower than the C an octave below middle C, so it's not like I'm getting extra low notes either way.

One potential reason for a Harpsicle is that it sounds like there might be over a month's wait to get the Sweetharp. :-/ I'm really wanting something to start practicing on right away, like you said Rian.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Tessar

These are who I've been discovering and loving:

Ohh, that was quick! Thanks! I'll be checking them out tonight.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Are you a harpist? or is it just fun to read? (like me not being a singer but enjoying reading the vocalist thread)

Just fun to read, because I love the sound of the harp. I wish I could be a harpist, and if I could start learning to play an instrument, the harp is what I would choose - if size, time and cost were not an issue.

I'm sure there's a difference in tuning between harps and pianos, even with the levers - tiny differences, though. I should find an article about pure tuning and see if it explains what I mean. I've heard an organ using pure tuning, because Eivind Groven built it in Oslo in the 1950s and it's still working (barely). I like the sound - a little different from the tempered tuning.

[Tessar]

Varna, I could kiss you. Did some googling and had to do a little sluthing but Eivind's name lead me to figure out what you're talking about.

HOW COOL!!!! I had never heard of this before. This completely blows my mind!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhZpvGSPx6w

This youtube video explains it somewhat and gives neat visual references.