Why did the Ring betray Isildur?

[Nurvingiel]

Wow Gordis and Olmer, you guys put way more thought into this than I did.

But I disagree with a few of your points Gordis. Even though Gandalf suspected that Bilbo had a Ring of power and knew where it was, the Ring wasn't in Gandalf's keeping. Further, he only confirmed it was the One Ring when Frodo had it.

Also, Gandalf never actually touched the Ring, not even one time. He was always handling it with fire tongs or whatever, on the rare occasions he even looked at the Ring. I get the impression he avoided it and possible temptation as much as possible after he knew it was the One ring. (Before that, I don't think he would have an issue with its presence, since he bore a ring of power already.)

I agree that Elrond and Celebrian wasn't a mis-alliance. Another reasons for waiting so long to marry, is Elves stay engaged for quite a long time IIRC.

Olmer, unless there's something in UT or HoME, I don't think there is any canonical evidence for snobbery on Galadriel's part (though you're not the only fan with that impression). Further... Galadriel sent a company of Elves to get the Ring at Parth Galen? What the hey?

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Also, Gandalf never actually touched the Ring, not even one time. He was always handling it with fire tongs or whatever, on the rare occasions he even looked at the Ring.

I think, Nurvingiel, it’s time to re-read the book.

Originally Posted by gordis

The three were less tempting than the One just because they were less powerful. I ask again why would Sauron make his very own precious Master ring tempting? It was not meant to ensnare any others. He never wished to part with it, he never expected to loose it.

How do you know what he wished and what not? We know for sure that his biggest wish was to�destroy the Elves, and to compass, if he might, the downfall of Numenor. " (Sil.) , and the Ring precisely MENT to ensnare others. I think that the astounding abilities of the Ring was greatly exaggerated by Sauron himself to make it look more desirable, othervise how you explain the spell that everyone wants to own the "jewelry" , so the rightful owner, instead, would be destined to stay in the shadow?
Originally he made this ring not for his own use . If it supposed to save his soul, why he made it VISIBLE and DESIRABLE for someone else? And what practical purpouse in putting on the ring inscription in Feanorian Tengwar, the language of Noldor, which would look familiar or appealing to the High Elves only, and which promised (in a poem! What a guy!!!) a neverending dominion over others? Guess, who also wanted its own realm to"rule them all" ? �… He endeavoured therefore to placate her, bearing her scorns with outward patience and courtesy� (UT) ( Could it be that this old goat decided on life-timless commitment, but got turned down?)

Besides, he was not that upset about not having the Ring: "He believed that the One had perished; that the Elves had destroyed it, as should have been done" (FOTR,BookI, Chapter 2).So, he EXPECTED to loose it.

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

But to different people. I can't imagine Boromir chasing after one of the Three which preserved the land, or an elf chasing after one of the seven.

You have your point here!! All rings were affecting different persons in different way.

Originally Posted by gordis

Elrond was Lord of Imladris from SA 1700. True, he was not 100% elf, but he was a descendent of Melian the Maia, ..
Yes, Elrond waited very long before proposing to Celebrian, but Elves do not beget children and so probably do not marry in troubled times,..
And Elrond married Celebrian 107 years after Isildur's death, not next year, so the two events do not seem connected.

Elrond, in spite of his great lineage, has never been called a“lord�, at best he was “Master Elrond�. I’m not talking about pure-blood Noldor , but even among Mirkwood elves he and his sons have never been considered as Elves :�…they are fair and gallant AS Elven-lords…�, commented Legolas, which means “even if they look like elves and behave like elves, they are not The Elves�.Another thing is that according to the law and customs of Eldar, “the betrothal awaited the judgement of the parents of either party�. So for 1600 years he was awaited when Galadriel decided that time has come, while she was dragging her daughter back and forth across Eregion and through the Mountains, and even venturing to Belfalas. Seems to me she was not too much bothered by the “troubled times�. Then what was holding her to give her daughter away and to get for her a permanent home under protection of loving and caring husband? Could it be because Elrond was not exactly a desirable suitor?
But she did not want him to get off the hook, she and Celebrian were making visits in Imladris under different pretenses.
Galadriel was usung her daughter, as they using carrot hanging in front donkey, making him, in desire to get it, to outstretch himself.
Finally the time has come when the great warrior was put to face the options.
He won the hand of Celebrian, paying dearly with his pride and honor. 100 years later ( which is like a one week to compare with 1,5 thousands years) he married her. And on the next morning he woke up as Lord Elrond.

Gandalf LIED about the ring (withheld information at least). Perhaps it was the influence of the Ring that prevented him to tell about it to his colleagues from the White Counsil, not only Saruman, but the others as well.

My sentiments exactly the same

1. At the time of Isildur's death, Galadriel wanted to KEEP the ring herself without wielding it, in order to be able to use Nenya. Therefore she ordered Elrond to kill Isildur and bring her the Ring
2. In TA 3018 she still wanted to keep the One Ring, but wanted to get it without anyone noticing, especially to keep it secret from Elrond, the Fellowship, Sauron and Saruman.
3. At the time of the War of the Rings Galadriel was the most interested person in all the ME to keep the One Ring safe (except Sauron himself). With Nenya she has accomplished more than anybody else and with the destruction of the One all will be lost.
4. She was ready to sacrifice all of Gondor to Mordor to acheive her ends. She probably presumed that after the war with Gondor, Mordor would be weakened and would not attack Lorien for some time.
5. In the second half of the TA Lorien provided food for Moria orcs in exchange for gems and mithril.
6. Galadriel let all the orcs (200+) pursuing the fellowship pass through Lorien.
7. Galadriel detained the Fellowship for a whole month (and this is when the whole mission was relayed on secrecy and speed).
8. Galadriel “slipped out� the information about the last bivouac of the Fellowship to the ears of enemies: Sauron and Saruman (?)
9. Galadriel sent a secret company of Lorien Elves to get the Ring from Frodo at Part Galen

Is that right, Olmer?

Whoa! Hold your horses!
Galadriel was not the one who conspired all deceitful things. Many moves was made with knowledge and approval of the elven part of the White Council. She was an originator of ideas and pusher of her policies, but you can’t put a blame only on her. All elves shared her point of view .
1.I don’t think it was an order to kill, but it was the order to orchestrate an ambush and to oversee that the ring would get lost.
4 This is why Sruman was allowed to build his own army. In the case of winning, Mordor would face a new challenger, forgetting about the elves.
5 .She was very familiar with Moria’s surrounding, not once travelled through it and was quite familiar with its dwellers, besides ,the changes, which had happened in Moria , was lengthy. As a ruler she had to think in the first place about the interest of her country, and this is peace, dividends from any outside contacts and , in case of military conflicts, all attempts had to be made not to use its own people. And I don’t believe that she didn’t use any tactical move in her sleeve to insure that the bordering country would be at very least neutral to them. To give her a credit, Moria never went against Lorien.
6. It was 100+ orcs.
8 She personally did not do it, but seems, orders had been made.
9. I never said it, but, yes, it must be the few lorien’s archers to instigate the fight between orcs and to make sure that the ring with the Ringbearer got “lost� in the river again.

The reast is more or less close to what I am trying to tell here .

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

But I disagree with a few of your points Gordis. Even though Gandalf suspected that Bilbo had a Ring of power and knew where it was, the Ring wasn't in Gandalf's keeping. Further, he only confirmed it was the One Ring when Frodo had it. .

It is just a definition of "keeping", nothing to argue about, IMHO. I only wanted to point out that Gandalf was able to take it anytime. My main point was that apparently he has not told about the Ring to anyone in the Counsil. It was his DUTY to report the existence of unidentified ring, but he withheld the information.

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I get the impression he avoided it and possible temptation as much as possible after he knew it was the One ring. (Before that, I don't think he would have an issue with its presence, since he bore a ring of power already.) .

Narya should have enabled him to feel the power of Bilbo's ring. And Gandalf was most careful with the unidentified ring from the onstart. He immediately guessed it might be the One, just was not sure. Just think, he has not tried to test it in the most obvious way.

I imagine a missing scene from "the Hobbit":

Somewhere in Misty mountains, TA 2941
Gandalf: -Bilbo, give me that ring for a moment...(Puts the ring on). -Let us see if it can kindle that fire (spark and flames)... -Hmm, how about breaking that rock? (Boom!) -Most interesting! How about contacting someone? (Ring-ring)-Hello, Galadriel, darling! How are you? And Celeborn? And grandchildren? - Eh? No, I call not with Narya, with some other ring I have picked up. I am just testing it. (Giving her a mental order: Sneeze 3 times) Galadriel: sneezes three times. Gandalf: -Oh! it must be the One! How fortunate I stopped before ordering a nazgul to sing "O Elbereth Gilthoniel..."!

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

But to different people. I can't imagine Boromir chasing after one of the Three which preserved the land, or an elf chasing after one of the seven.

The Three were able to give Men immortality. A person like Ar-Pharazon surely would have chased after one of the Three. And I am not so sure that an Elf would not be tempted by one of the 7 or the 9. Originally, according to Celebrimbor's design, ALL the 19 rings were made for Elves. The idea to give 7 to Dwarves and 9 to Men was Sauron's. Do not forget that the Ring-verse was in fact Sauron's evil spell to pervert the original design.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Olmer

How do you know what he wished and what not? We know for sure that his biggest wish was to�destroy the Elves, and to compass, if he might, the downfall of Numenor. " (Sil.) , and the Ring precisely MENT to ensnare others. I think that the astounding abilities of the Ring was greatly exaggerated by Sauron himself to make it look more desirable, othervise how you explain the spell that everyone wants to own the "jewelry" , so the rightful owner, instead, would be destined to stay in the shadow?
Originally he made this ring not for his own use . If it supposed to save his soul, why he made it VISIBLE and DESIRABLE for someone else? And what practical purpouse in putting on the ring inscription in Feanorian Tengwar, the language of Noldor, which would look familiar or appealing to the High Elves only, and which promised (in a poem! What a guy!!!) a neverending dominion over others? Guess, who also wanted its own realm to"rule them all" ? � .

Not convincing, sorry.

I think you contradict yourself. If you question the ability of the One ring to control others (at least the Three) then all your construction about Galadriel's plans falls to pieces. If you accept that the One controls the others, than it means that the One Ring is practicaly canon. I agree, in itself it might be not so formidable as was supposed. I mean if all the 19 were destroyed the One would be reduced to very little.

"to destroy the Elves" IMHO means to make them use their Rings, build realms etc. and then corrupt them through the Rings and make the Elf-Lords his pawns and their realms his own. Actually, he had the same plan for all the rings, but it worked only with the 9 (and IMO not entirely either). But it would have worked if the bearers of the Three wielded their rings throughout the Second age. I think he also meant to achieve the downfall of Numenor much earlier by giving 3 of the Nine to the "great Numenorean Lords". He surely wanted to put a nazgul on the throne of Numenor itself. But he failed in this somehow, so he had to wait for 1000 years more till the time of not-so-bright Ar-Pharazon.

-If Sauron has made the ring not for his own use why had he GOT HIMSELF KILLED to pass it to others? With his cunning, he could have slipped the ring to them without damage to himself.

-Why he made it DESIRABLE? - IMHO Sauron could not help it, it was an intrinsic quality of all the things of Power
-VISIBLE? - All the rings are visible when not on someone's finger. Otherwise how can we know that all the rings save The one have stones? How could invisible rings be crafted at all? And, IMHO, when worn, the rings may be visible or invisible according to the wielder's wishes.
-The Ring inscription was in Black speech, only in elven runes. And it was invisible.

Originally Posted by Olmer

Besides, he was not that upset about not having the Ring: "He believed that the One had perished; that the Elves had destroyed it, as should have been done" (FOTR,BookI, Chapter 2).So, he EXPECTED to loose it. .

It was Elrond's surmise (not even Tolkien's surmise). Even Elrond can make mistakes. I believe the idea that anyone would destroy the Ring has NEVER entered Sauron's mind. Otherwise he could have guessed the goal of the Fellowship and easily prevented it.

Originally Posted by Olmer

… He endeavoured therefore to placate her, bearing her scorns with outward patience and courtesy� (UT) ( Could it be that this old goat decided on life-timless commitment, but got turned down?) .

And The One was the wedding Ring he prepared for her? And afterwards tried to slip it to her no matter what?
Olmer, Galadriel, as you depict her, would have been a perfect match for Sauron. They would have taken over the world and lived happily ever after .

Originally Posted by Olmer

Elrond, in spite of his great lineage, has never been called a“lord�, at best he was “Master Elrond�. I’m not talking about pure-blood Noldor , but even among Mirkwood elves he and his sons have never been considered as Elves :�…they are fair and gallant AS Elven-lords…�, commented Legolas, which means “even if they look like elves and behave like elves, they are not The Elves�.Another thing is that according to the law and customs of Eldar, “the betrothal awaited the judgement of the parents of either party�. So for 1600 years he was awaited when Galadriel decided that time has come, while she was dragging her daughter back and forth across Eregion and through the Mountains, and even venturing to Belfalas. Seems to me she was not too much bothered by the “troubled times�. Then what was holding her to give her daughter away and to get for her a permanent home under protection of loving and caring husband? Could it be because Elrond was not exactly a desirable suitor? .

- In late TA Erlond was called both "Lord" and "Master". There is no proof that he was not called "Lord" in the SA.
..."As Elven lords..." IMHO the keyword here is "Lords", probably meaning the Elves from Valinor. Glorfindel is called Elf-Lord, though he has never had a realm of his own in ME. The Sons of Elrond were born in ME, so they are not Elf-Lords in this sence. And they are not lords of any realms (yet) though heirs to one. The same applies to Legolas, son of King Tranduil.
-It is written in UT that at about the middle of the SA "Elrond first saw Celebrian and loved her, though he said nothing of it" So it is not correct that he has awaited Galadriel's permission for half an age.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by gordis

I am afraid Elrond was too tight-lipped when speaking at the Counsil (and understandably so). He did cause the flood at the Ford, with the help of Gandalf. That was clearly Ring-magic. Galadriel warded off attacks from Dol Guldur. And Gandalf fought the 9 nazgul at Weathertop (with lightning) and he killed the Barlog. Perhaps the rings were more defensive than offensive weapons, but weapons they were. The three (Nenya in particular) also enabled the bearer to make palantiri-like devices (the Mirror of Galadriel), to forsee the future to some extent and to "kindle hearts" (Narya). ANYONE would be tempted to have these abilities. But you are right, the main power of the Three was "to preserve all things unstained", to slow the time, to prevent Elves's fading These powers were extremely tempting specifically for Elves. Men or Dwarves or orcs were not concerned with these problems. Though for a man possessing one of the Three meant immortality, and perhaps one not resulting in wraithdom. Not tempting eh ?

And where does it state that these acts (Lightning of Weathertop and Flood of the Brunien) was acts of the Rings. Narya was a Ring of Fire, not lightning so it wouldn't be used for that. Vilya was a Ring of Air and not of water. I don't see how these are connected to the Rings. Gandalf was a Maia remember, he didn't need the Ring to 'conjure' lightning.

The three would not give men immortality, such as te elves have. Somewhere (I'm not sure where but I'll try to find the quote) it says that not even the Valar have the power to give men immortality. It may (and probably would) make them wraiths. Remember the Ring was made for one of those powers and would eat away at the bearer if it was not of that power. Gollum was eaten away at, and the Nine became wraiths, as Frodo would have become if he claimed the Ring earlier and constantly wore it, it would diminish him. The elven Rings were the most powerful and men would nbot be able to bear them and lead a life to the same of further extent to what they or elves would have.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

And where does it state that these acts (Lightning of Weathertop and Flood of the Brunien) was acts of the Rings. Narya was a Ring of Fire, not lightning so it wouldn't be used for that. Vilya was a Ring of Air and not of water. I don't see how these are connected to the Rings. Gandalf was a Maia remember, he didn't need the Ring to 'conjure' lightning.
The three would not give men immortality, such as te elves have.

I think it were rather obvious that the flood at the ford was made with Vilia and Narya. Do you think that Elrond's ring was good for air-conditioning only ? .

And no man were able to predict beforehand what type of immortality would he get. They wanted it anyway.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Gandalf's exact words about the flood were 'Elrond commanded it', not Elrond made it happen with his Ring. I think this suggests that he has he same kind of power with Rivedell as Bombadil did with the Old Forest, just nt to the same extent.

[Nurvingiel]

I agree with Telcontar here. I think the uses of the Three were more subtle than calling lightning down from the sky. I think it would be more along the lines of enhancing the abilities of the bearer. Maybe Vilya had a hand in the flood at Bruinen, but only to add to what Elrond could already do. That's my opinion anyway.
Further, there's nothing to indicate that the Three granted immortality. All their different bearers (CÃ*rdan, Gil-Galad, Gandalf, Elrond, and Galadriel) were already immortal.
Also I don't think many Men even knew about the Three. Galadriel's ring was a surprise to Frodo, and he only noticed it because he was a Ringbearer himself. Sam couldn't see it, and I don't think the rest of the Fellowship was aware of it, barring Gandalf, and maybe Aragorn (who was uncommonly knowledgeable you must admit).

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Olmer

I think, Nurvingiel, it’s time to re-read the book.

Though I agree that a re-read is in order, I don't think I'm remembering this incorrectly. I'm going to have to see a quote about Gandalf actually handling the Ring (not just picking it up with fire tongs or the like) to be convinced.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I agree Nurvi (slightly obvious as you were agreeing with me but anyway). I think that he Dunedain would have known about the Three but there is nthing to indicate that Boromir did before th Council. It is strange however that Gloin knew about the three.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by gordis

It was his DUTY to report the existence of unidentified ring, but he withheld the information.

Agree. But since at the Council they already had a disagreement of what to do with The Ring. And it was obvious that…�There was much talk of rings at the Council: even wizards have much to learn ...� suggesting that, besides elves, there were another wizards at the council (including Saruman) who would "go in for such things� (HOME.Treason of Isengard� The 4th phase), Gandalf was too leery to make a public announcement.

Originally Posted by gordis

How fortunate I stopped before ordering a nazgul to sing "O Elbereth Gilthoniel..."!

Love it!!! Brilliant!

Originally Posted by gordis

ALL the 19 rings were made for Elves. The idea to give 7 to Dwarves and 9 to Men was Sauron's. Do not forget that the Ring-verse was in fact Sauron's evil spell to pervert the original design.

Yes, it was not Sauron’s plan to play God and to make devises which could deter God’s original design of nature, but he liked the idea and seized an opportunity to demonstrate to Eru, how ungrateful and imperfect his creations are.
If he would know, that with 19 rings wielding, the elve’s would fall out of Eru’s favor faster than Nunenorians, he would just sat back and enjoyed the show.

Originally Posted by gordis

I think you contradict yourself. If you question the ability of the One ring to control others (at least the Three) then all your construction about Galadriel's plans falls to pieces. If you accept that the One controls the others, than it means that the One Ring is practicaly canon.

Not at all. To control the others was the most attractive feature for a perspective holder. But it had one catch: while wielding it your life-force will be slowly seeping to the original designer, making him stronger. Kind like nuclear generator-transmitter. Smart Galadriel guessed about such possibility. Gandalf also knew that the ring could turn him (without much harm) into the mighty Lord of Middle-earth by channeling the whatever left magic to him, but on another hand it could channel the magic from him too. This is why he preferred to handle The Ring as less, as possible. One can never be sure with these Rings of Power...

Originally Posted by gordis

If Sauron has made the ring not for his own use why had he GOT HIMSELF KILLED to pass it to others?

He would live, if he would not “give a finger� to the standing nearby guy with Narsil.

Originally Posted by gordis

It was Elrond's surmise (not even Tolkien's surmise). Even Elrond can make mistakes. I believe the idea that anyone would destroy the Ring has NEVER entered Sauron's mind.

Whoever. If they thought that Sauron could be able to sit happily and believe that the ring was destroyed, then all their screams about the destruction of the Ring, as a panacea from Sauron’s dominion, were false.

Originally Posted by gordis

And afterwards tried to slip it to her no matter what?

What you can do about it! He was a persistent guy… Couldn’t take NO for answer!…

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

The three would not give men immortality, such as te elves have

But they would give PRESERVANCE , which is almost the same, a very desirable quality.

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I'm going to have to see a quote about Gandalf actually handling the Ring (not just picking it up with fire tongs or the like) to be convinced.

Just to save your time…
“ He (Frodo) unfastened it and handed it slowly to the wizard…Gandalf HELD IT UP…(then, after throwing it into the fire) …�he stooped and removed the ring to the hearth with the tongs, and at once PICKED IT UP. …’It is quite cool’, said Gandalf.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Olmer

But they would give PRESERVANCE , which is almost the same, a very desirable quality.

Preservance to the land of their realm, not to themselves. That was Vilya's and Nenya's powers, but we don't see much evidence for that from Nenya as Gandalf did not have a realm or a dwelling place. Cirdan tells Gandalf that the Ring would help him create a fire in the heart's of others.
Do you think that Narya preserved Mithlond while Cirdan bore it there?

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Olmer

Not at all. To control the others was the most attractive feature for a perspective holder. But it had one catch: while wielding it your life-force will be slowly seeping to the original designer, making him stronger. Kind like nuclear generator-transmitter.

So you agree that the One could control the others. As for your power-transmitter idea, I can easily accept it along with "control", BUT with one important difference: I think the ONE could seep the "magic energy" from the other rings and transmit it NOT to the ringless Sauron, but to the WIELDER of the One. So Sauron needed his ring vitally. When not wielded, the One might just accumulate energy without transmitting it. Therefore it was so draining to keep the One close.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

Preservance to the land of their realm, not to themselves. Do you think that Narya preserved Mithlond while Cirdan bore it there?

Tolkien himself said that the Rings maintained "enchanted enclaves of place when time seems to stand still and decay is restrained" (let.131).
How you can get old if the time is not moving and decay, the major factor of body's aging, is absent?

Was Mithlond preserved? I think it was, but Cirdan, being the oldest and, probably, the wisest of the Wise, anticipated that playing on God's territory, trying to change the Law of nature, wouldn't get a big sympathies from Eru. And, being precautious, he got rid of the Ring at the first opportunity.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by gordis

So you agree that the One could control the others. As for your power-transmitter idea, I can easily accept it along with "control", BUT with one important difference: I think the ONE could seep the "magic energy" from the other rings and transmit it NOT to the ringless Sauron, but to the WIELDER of the One. So Sauron needed his ring vitally. When not wielded, the One might just accumulate energy without transmitting it. Therefore it was so draining to keep the One close.

I have never said that it can't. It gives "control" to a certain degree, but don't forget that the ring was made by Sauron and I have no doubt that Sauron will not willingly give up the power to govern the world.
But I'm very sure that in order get what he want Sauron could step aside (not for the first time) and stay in the shadow patiently watching as the Ring slowly working at turning the new Ruler of the World (preferably a Noldor) into his servant, which would give him the GREAT satisfaction.
With eons of time at his disposal, waiting for a couple of thousand years to achieve the desired result for him would be a short period of time, comparable to a few weeks.

Even being on Isildur(for short period), Gollum, Bilbo and Frodo the Ring transmitted enough of energy to Sauron to be visible again in the form even hideous, but human-like. The draining happens when the energy is getting TRANSMITTED, not when it is getting ACCUMULATED (physic's law )

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Olmer

:
:
Even being on Isildur(for short period), Gollum, Bilbo and Frodo the Ring transmitted enough of energy to Sauron to be visible again in the form even hideous, but human-like. The draining happens when the energy is getting TRANSMITTED, not when it is getting ACCUMULATED (physic's law )

OTOH, it could be reasoned that their 'draining' had to do with their lives being stretched out over more time.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Valandil

OTOH, it could be reasoned that their 'draining' had to do with their lives being stretched out over more time.

Who? Isildur's and Frodo's?
Isildur of Numenorisn bearing probably would become weary after long time of having the Ring in his posession, but on less durable person it would work faster. Frodo reached a total exhaustion in 6 month.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Olmer

Tolkien himself said that the Rings maintained "enchanted enclaves of place when time seems to stand still and decay is restrained" (let.131).
How you can get old if the time is not moving and decay, the major factor of body's aging, is absent?

Was Mithlond preserved? I think it was, but Cirdan, being the oldest and, probably, the wisest of the Wise, anticipated that playing on God's territory, trying to change the Law of nature, wouldn't get a big sympathies from Eru. And, being precautious, he got rid of the Ring at the first opportunity.

But time would still be moving, the just wouldn't feel it.
I also wouldn't say he got rid of his Ring at the first opportunity. He could have thrown it to sea, but he didn't, someone wiser than him who he percieved would need the Ring alot more came along and he gave the ing to him.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Olmer

I have never said that it can't. It gives "control" to a certain degree, but don't forget that the ring was made by Sauron and I have no doubt that Sauron will not willingly give up the power to govern the world.
But I'm very sure that in order get what he want Sauron could step aside (not for the first time) and stay in the shadow patiently watching as the Ring slowly working at turning the new Ruler of the World (preferably a Noldor) into his servant, which would give him the GREAT satisfaction.)

I disagree that Sauron stopped aside willingly. I think that he was very weak without his ring in the second millenium the Third age, so he had to remain quiet as an unidentified Necromancer.

Originally Posted by Olmer

Even being on Isildur(for short period), Gollum, Bilbo and Frodo the Ring transmitted enough of energy to Sauron to be visible again in the form even hideous, but human-like. The draining happens when the energy is getting TRANSMITTED, not when it is getting ACCUMULATED (physic's law )

I meant the energy was being accumulated in the Ring itself, draining it from the person currently in possession. But actually I am no supporter of "energy theory" at all. I believe it is just redundant. Things can be easily explained without inventing a new concept.
The timing is wrong. When Isildur wore the Ring Sauron was a bodiless spirit; when Gollum Bilbo and Frodo wore the Ring Sauron must have been already fully incarnate (he run away from GandalF in 2063, returned after the Watchful peace etc.). So Sauron became visible IMHO just because he managed to collect some other rings (dwarven and nazgul) in the absence of the One. The One permitted him to become incarnate not directly, but by its mere existence

[Jon S.]

Personally, I believe the Ring operated akin to a computer program as opposed to possessing sentience but I understand others feel differently.

This is the second thread I've posted on tonight with a link to the FAQ of the Ring. Y'all should check it out, it's well done.

This link will take you directly to, "Could the One Ring think, feel, and make choices?"

http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q1-Sentient