The Singers Thread

[Tessar]

I got major kudos from the director when I agreed to step in for my voice teacher and sing the Bass solos from the Beethoven Mass in C for the last few rehearsals before the performance. We have a professional opera singer to do the solos for the performance, but unfortunately my teacher was not looking at the music ahead of time, so the rehearsals he sang at did not go very well.

He said my tone, intonation, and musicality have all improved by leaps and bounds... which was really nice to hear. I'm glad he was happy with what I did, and the opportunity to sing for the rehearsals has been such an awesome experience for me. I sang them at a Saturday rehearsal and again this last Wednesday. It was so much fun!

[Tessar]

I am completely blown away. I'm getting to sing in the chorus for my local opera house, and all of the principle singers are BEYOND amazing. Enormous, gorgeous voices, and they are all so nice.

I've had the opportunity to talk to a few of them and they are just so unbelievably nice. I talked to one the other day, a mezzo playing a young boy, and after I asked her a few introductory questions I found out she has sung in the chorus at the Metropolitan Opera. O_o We finally got to hear her sing tonight, and I see why. Her voice is soooooo beautiful. It's a high mezzo, so it's silvery like a soprano but dark like a mezzo. Amazing.

I also talked to one of the incredible baritones, and (just like the mezzo did) after I had asked him just a question or two he actually inquired about me and gave me some great encouragement. O_o

It amazes me how nice and real all of the leads are.

[Tessar]

This is the mezzo... the video does not do her voice even half justice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HHcJI5jPfc

This is the baritone:
http://youtu.be/5wqnPjkqu20


This is another mezzo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1II3zHDvfk


O_o EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! I'm completely star struck. They're SO incredible.



The real cake-taker though is the lead soprano. I just about died when she started singing. This video does her absolutely not a bit of justice at all. I think it's probably the most amazing soprano voice I've ever heard in my entire life. She's only 25 now, so she was only 23ish when this video was made:

http://youtu.be/xJZwzMxD7uA

[Tessar]

The only encouraging thing is that all of the leads are 30+, except for the soprano. I actually asked the baritone how he made his high notes spin so much (his voice is AMAZING in person) and he told me he'd sold his soul to the devil for his high notes. I lol'ed. Then he asked me how old I was, and when I said I was 22 he said, "Pssh. 22... please... I'll tell you how I got my high notes like that... I'm 34. That's how I did it." He's funny. Then he gave me some great advice, etc.

I keep fluctuating between being inspired and being disheartened though. These people are beyond amazing... I'm not 100% convinced I can ever reach their level. They're all gorgeous (the baritone is a total stud), they have incredible 'instruments', their voices are big, they are SO musical, they can all act incredibly well... gah. I feel like compared to all of them I'm ugly and have a little, unpleasant voice. Their charisma and voices are completely overwhelming.

Gaaaah!!!!

[Varnafindë]

Compared to them you are also young and inexperienced. Something that will be remedied with time (like, 12 years? ). And I say "will", not "may".

Your voice teacher is pleased with you like you are right now, and all the rest will come with time. So enjoy the opportunity of being with these great people - like you say you're doing

[Rían]

I can understand why you would keep fluctuating between being inspired and being disheartened, but you need to let it go (the negative comarisons). This sounds like one of those wonderful experiences that you will always remember, so ... enjoy it! Don't waste time comparing - enjoy! and learn They know you're young, and they obviously think that for your age, you belong there, and that is quite a compliment

[Tessar]

The number of times that I heard chorus members say, "I could sing that better," today just blows my mind.

The number of times it was correct: zero.

Some of these kids seriously need to pull their heads out of their butts. How about a dose of reality: You're 27ish (seems to be the average age), you finished your undergrad 5 years ago and haven't worked with a teacher or coach since then, but you know you want to "do something" with your voice and so here you are auditioning for the chorus. Not for the lead roles. For the chorus.

You do not sing better than the leads. Your acting is not better than the leads. Your ego is five times bigger than the leads and none of them are walking around like they're the big $#!+.... in short, shut up and watch the leads because you might learn something.




On the less irritating side, this experience has been amazing. Can't wait for the show to open on Friday evening. I have learned so much by shadowing around the leads and listening to the conversations they have with each other and with the music director. Actually today I got praised for it.

I was totally creeping on a conversation between one of the baritones and the chorus director (saw them talking and just kind of wandered over, planted myself next to them, and just stood and listened... i.e. CREEPER ), and after a few minutes the chorus director looked at me and said, "You're really smart, you know that? Listening in on these conversations is the best thing you can do." Then the baritone said the same thing.

I told them that I kind of hate to be THAT guy (... you know... creepin' on up...) but they both said I'm doing it the right way because I creep silently rather than trying to butt into conversations and pretend like I know anything.

So I'm glad I'm doing something right. I've learned so much about "the biz." It's amazing to hear from people who are actually currently working as musicians (i.e. not "Back in 1973 when I auditioned for my last role before I started teaching, this is how it was....").

Plus now I'm gonna do some coaching with the opera chorus director.... so I'm praying for good things to come from that. The further I get into this stuff the more I see the risks of singing for people. You have to sing for the right people at the right point in your development and not get ahead of yourself. Luckily the chorus director is all about helping young singers like myself, and she's going to help me improve my voice.

[Tessar]

WHEEEEE! I finally got to teach a voice lesson!! Got a call on Sunday about a little girl who wanted a couple of lessons this week for a voice competition she's in on Saturday.

She has SUCH a low voice. O_o She's only nine.

I was trying to vocalize her... I got her up to about C5 (octave above middle C) and she was belting her way up, so I took her through descending scales on "oo" to open the head voice, and it took a few tries but we got her up... then she sailed up to about a G#5, and then started going flat and couldn't make it higher... which I thought was a bit weird for a nine-year old.

So then I took her down, and she went easily down to an F#3 below middle C. O_o I was like.... well.... that's not usual at all. Usually little girls start losing voice around Middle C. She's already got a lower voice than most fully grown women. She's probably going to be a mezzo soprano or contralto when she grows up.

The only problem is she's a belter. It took some work to get her into that head voice, and it's not at all connected to her full voice.... but then again she's nine, so.... YOU KNOW. It's not like I'm expecting it to be connected.


We had fun! I showed her how to breath low, how to put the voice above the hard palate (she was singing throaty), and then I worked on getting her to sing a little softer. It blew her mind when I got her to put her voice above the palate and she made the piano strings ring when she sang a high note. Made my day because it reminded me EXACTLY of my own reaction when my old voice teacher got me to do it the first time.



I doubt I'll get to keep working with her after this week, since she just wants lessons for the competition, but I'd love to keep working with her. I suspect she might actually be a soprano, like most little girls, but from all of the pop belting she's done she's completely unbalanced her voice and that's how she can sing so low..... but then again I just don't know! Her head voice did not have a girl soprano quality, it had edges of a child mezzo in the color... and her chest voice was very easy, not pushed at all. Who knows!

[Tessar]

I was so right.

She's a soprano. Today she sailed up to a Bb5, the Bb right below Soprano High C. At first she got stuck on the G# again, but I finally got her to say "too" instead of "TUH" when she was singing, and the pure "oo" sound pulled her right up into head voice.

So I explained to the mother that the little girl is not a low voice at all, and that she shouldn't be singing as heavily in her low range as she is. The mother looked really uncomfortable and then explained that they have a next door neighbor who is a mariachi singer, and apparently the little girl has been trying to imitate him. I told the mother to prevent that as much as possible. Singing like a full grown mariachi singer would be the number one fastest way to destroy her little voice...

I might get the little girl as a permanent student. We'll see... I would love to keep working with her. I'm afraid that without lessons she's going to stunt her own vocal growth, or at least cause herself a LOT of future grief and waste a lot of time trying to get back into her head voice later on, and she seems to genuinely want to sing.

[Tessar]

So excited. Starting to work with the guy I was coaching with as my new "full time" teacher, and without me even asking he did what I've always begged my teachers to do and they seemed to refuse to (because I "already knew that stuff" and they didn't want to waste my time )... take it all back to square one, like I knew nothing about singing, and work the basics with me.

We went over breathing and posture... and of course since I do have singing experience and pretty good technique, we moved quickly through things, but WOW. It made such a difference to review the basics with a "master teacher." Discovered how to do some things that I've known I was doing wrong... little things, but important!

[Tessar]

My brand new voice student... a 12 year-old girl.... just sang a C below Middle C, and when I got her into her head voice she nailed an A. On the outside, I said, "Well that's a very low voice, and you've got a lot of high voice as well. You're quite lucky."

On the inside I was like, "WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!?" but I kept it together and remained professional.

The mom was so happy with what we did that she paid me for two months of voice lessons in advance. O_o

[Tessar]

So, today my little girl sang a C below Middle C and sang a high Soprano B. Because that's a completely normal thing for a 12 year old girl to do.


She has a bigger vocal range than I do. Good grief. A bigger vocal range than most adult singers, for that matter.

The mom is super excited with the work we're doing, and the girl is hilarious. She cracks me up, and apparently I crack her up too. I'm very excited to get to work with this girl.

[Valandil]

Tessar - I really wish I could as fully appreciate this thread and the things you're talking about, as you and a few others do. I'm one of those guys who sort of 'makes a joyful noise' and that's about it... although I've tried as hard as I can to get better.

What you've posted about your work with those students sounds really cool though.

At least my sons all have more inclination toward music than I ever did. My middle one, in particular, sings pretty well (or so folks say - he sings on key and hits his notes and projects well enough). So as a father I really enjoy their musical experiences. To this point, some singing here and there (church specials and holiday programs), and all three have taken piano for a number of years.

But you keep up the good work!

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Valandil

Tessar - I really wish I could as fully appreciate this thread and the things you're talking about, as you and a few others do.

Speaking of which, I miss Voronwen!! I never get a chance to "talk shop" with other singers any more. It's either just listening to my teacher, or teaching kids... which are fantastic things, but I miss in-depth discussion of technique and sounds.

I'm one of those guys who sort of 'makes a joyful noise' and that's about it... although I've tried as hard as I can to get better.

Geesh. Good luck with that... I spent years trying to improve on my own. I tried some of those "TEACH YOURSELF TO SING AT HOME--YOU CAN TOTALLY DO IT!" programs, and they never helped. Of course I also knew some people who did those and became really good singers, so clearly I hated them and wanted to punch them in the teeth for succeeding with a $60 program while I paid thousands of dollars to voice teachers those programs do work for some people.

At least my sons all have more inclination toward music than I ever did. My middle one, in particular, sings pretty well (or so folks say - he sings on key and hits his notes and projects well enough).

That's more than I ever had pre-lessons. I admire people with enough natural talent to sing on key and project.

[Valandil]

Oh - no books or courses for me. Just try to pay attention and learn what I can and improve. Most of my singing happens within the four walls of my church. Or the four walls of my shower. It helps as I learn the songs better.

Projecting... I've got that down myself! It's the 'on-key' part I struggle with, that my son also does well at. Even now, at age 10, he acts a little annoyed at times when I sing in a way that he calls, 'flat'.

There's so much singing in Tolkien - among the Dwarves, among the Elves, Aragorn of the Dunedain. I've always wondered just what the singers and those songs would sound like.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Valandil

Projecting... I've got that down myself! It's the 'on-key' part I struggle with, that my son also does well at. Even now, at age 10, he acts a little annoyed at times when I sing in a way that he calls, 'flat'.

Haha, those kids. When I was little my dad emotionally scarred all three of us kids (my two older sisters and I) one day when we were in the car singing, and I guess we were flat or not really matching the right pitches, because he told us in a very annoyed voice that we, "Weren't singing the right notes." I don't think we sang in the car any more after that.

Actually if you can project and your voice isn't "on pitch," you might just be projecting a little too much. I always tell my students to sing with their "medium" voice. You don't have to whisper-sing, but you don't have to yell-sing either... singing too softly or too loud when you're not trained is actually way harder than just singing at a "speaking" volume.

There's so much singing in Tolkien - among the Dwarves, among the Elves, Aragorn of the Dunedain. I've always wondered just what the singers and those songs would sound like.

Me too!!!!! I've always thought of dwarves having sort of "woofy" voices, or just very much like those famous Russian Basses. Or like Bryn Terfel: http://youtu.be/xo4LmXemNrg

I think of the elves as having really angelic voices, and I think hobbits probably just yell.





Today I taught a five-year old a voice lesson. He was super cute!!!!!

I had him hoot like an owl with his tongue sticking out like a beak, because his tongue was pulled back in his mouth. O_o He was so cute. We did it a few times, and he collapsed onto the floor and said, "It's soooooooo haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard."

I explained to the mom that I can't really "teach" him in a professional sense, but she was dead set on having him take some lessons so I explained that I can kinda set him up for success and prevent bad habits from forming (apparently he sings alllllll the time). He's also got -very- good focus for a five-year old. He didn't get majorly distracted at all during the 20 minutes we worked together.

I think my main goal is going to be to get him to take good breaths when he sings, and keep him in his head voice... which actually will put him lightyears ahead of most kids when he can finally be "formally" taught. Most kids only have their chestvoice now a days. So if I can keep him in the head voice that little, little kids naturally have, he'll be way ahead of the game in a few years.


Also my little 12 year-old girl with the low voice knocked it out of the park today. She was having trouble with her middle voice, bridging between the head and chest, so I had her meow like a cat... and it worked so well that we did it in her high voice, and she flipped into whistle register and nailed the C# right above soprano High C. O_o She has an INSANE vocal range. It's now three octaves and a half-step. That is VERY unusual... especially for a 12 year old!!!!!! She was suitably impressed with herself when I showed her on the piano just how many notes that was.

[Tessar]

My little low-voice girl is insane. Today she vocalized to an A an octave and a minor third below Middle C (the A2)... then we were singing "Think of Me," from The Phantom of the Opera, and she goes, "Oh! I want to sing the ending part!" in my head I'm thinking, "The highest we vocalize is a C#... is she actually going to be able to SING the B right below that? No way."

Then she did it. Like it was nothing. This girl is ridiculousness incarnate with her vocal range. We had to work it a little to make it not be choppy, but the notes were all there and her mom told me she was just blasting it out full volume at home with no problem.

I'm ASSUMING at some point, as she gets older, she'll probably settle into a low mezzo or maybe contralto voice, but geeze louise. If she hangs on to this vocal range she has through her vocal change (which for girls is usually pretty subtle) she is going to be able to sing ANYTHING. I suspect it'll be a contralto voice because her low notes sound just like a man singing.


In other news had a lesson with my dad today, and the new techniques I'm trying worked super great. He didn't make it past a G3 with good technique, but it sounded okay up to a C4. I told him not to try vocalizing past an F#3 this week, and he was disappointed because thought it was "too low," but I was just excited how GOOD he sounded.

My voice teacher has me working on this thing, which I'm passing on to my students, about "extended speech singing," where you basically speak a word and then you slowly start elongating the word till you're "singing" it the exact same way you spoke it. The voice resonates in the front of the face, but not in the nose, and that slowly starts to darken/deepen itself over time all by itself.

Works like a charm! It fixed my dad's weird vowels, his throat tension, his tongue tension, and the weird body tension he gets (he gets nervous, and focused, and he makes claw hands O_o it's disturbing). It gave him the same lovely, easy, resonant sound that his speaking voice has, and he very quickly started picking up on when he was starting to make weird vowels instead of proper ones. I was happy! I'm betting next week he'll be able to take it much, much higher.

[Tessar]

Today my dad vocalized an almost full voiced Tenor High Bb. I am insanely jealous. There was only a smidge of falsetto in his voice.

There is actually some potential he might not be a baritone... but I don't know. It's still way too early to tell. His low range is not that great, and interestingly enough once we got his voice placed correctly he started having trouble with the low notes. More than I would've imagined he'd have.

There is no tenor "ping" to his voice, so he may just be a really high baritone (like my teacher, who can also vocalize full voiced Bb's and B's). But again it's way too early... he hasn't begun to develop that baritonal ping, either. Potentially there is too much vocal damage/poor habit in there to ever develop it, but I have great faith he'll get it even if it takes a while.

He sounded awesome in this lesson. He's soclose to "getting" it, and he was completely amazed at his own progress. My new teaching methods and techniques are definitely working.

[Varnafindë]

Whether or not you'll ever be a professional singer, perhaps you should be a professional song teacher?

[Varnafindë]

Is this the place to mention a song I've listened to a lot lately?

It's Gabriella's Song from the movie As It Is In Heaven (Så som i himmelen for Scandinavian speakers).

One of the versions you can find on YouTube is from the Swedish movie and has got English subtitles

I think it's a great song!