The Singers Thread

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

Hmmm... of course now i am wondering whether i am a "reed" or a "flute". I think i'm a "reed".... (ie. i'm more of a Musetta than a Mimi).

Probably a reed, if your placement is forward. Examples:

Reed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR4kzKPUTnw

Flute:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXCwukCdWmg

To my ears, the "Reed" (Juan Diego Florez) placement is almost totally frontal. The "Flute" (Lawrence Brownlee) placement is back either in the middle of the mouth or (in this case) a little further back, possibly all the way to the back of the mouth/jaw. They are the same voice type, they sing the same rep., and I honestly couldn't pick if you told me I had to select one as my favorite... totally different sounds, and I love them both.

It sounds as if you've found a really good working relationship.

We have. It's fantastic.

I think i know what you mean by the feeling that your head would pop off and your vision go blurry... that's all that resonance It feels that way for me when the placement is just right, too... especially when i'm in my uppermost ranges (like when i'm working stuff from Schauspieldirektor or something like that). It's quite a feeling. Trust me, you can get high from it. Enjoy the ride!!!

That's so cool. I am letting my voice rest today after all the singing I did yesterday (plus today has just been incredibly stressful -_-), but tomorrow I'm going to get back to singing.


Today I've been speaking the vowels, trying to learn to get them pure. It's coming along. Slow but steady! The teacher said that when you get the vowel sound totally correct, it naturally goes to your 'proper' placement (back or forwards) over time. But he knows tricks to speed up the process.

He said that if he fixed nothing but my vowels then let me go away and just sing for a few years, when I came back my vowels would have naturally fallen into the back placement if I kept them pure and didn't force them.

Interesting idea, no?

I also spent a LOT of time on my consonants. I never realized it, but apparently I was forming the consonant in the "fry" register of my voice and then snapping up to the vowel's pitch. It explains why my vowels were getting misshapen... you can't really sing a pure vowel in fry, it's all "mutes" (uh, urh, etc.) and so the vowels never had a change to form.

So lots of sustaining pitches in comfortable ranges and singing, "Lalalalalalalala" and "papapapapapapa" and "bobobobobobo," etc. on all of the consonants (even my freakin' C's and K's!! O_o) till I figured out how to get them to form on top of the pitch instead of in the fry register. It's like an instant shot of "You Can Sing With Legato" straight to my vocal folds.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

The teacher said that when you get the vowel sound totally correct, it naturally goes to your 'proper' placement (back or forwards) over time.

This is true.

I also spent a LOT of time on my consonants. I never realized it, but apparently I was forming the consonant in the "fry" register of my voice and then snapping up to the vowel's pitch. It explains why my vowels were getting misshapen... you can't really sing a pure vowel in fry, it's all "mutes" (uh, urh, etc.) and so the vowels never had a change to form.

It is interesting that consonants have so much to do with our vowels... rudimentary, really, but we're so used to picking everything apart that we tend to forget that it's all related.

Maybe this has to do with my forward placement, or maybe not, but i've always had issues with my m's and n's, especially n's. I tend to hold onto them just a tiny bit too long. But i think now this gets into different schools of diction...

[Tessar]

What are you planning to sing for your auditions?

I rehearsed But Who May Abide with the organ player today and he came by my office later (I was doing my office job at the church) to ask me if I was doing something different because my voice sounded "much better," than it used to. Encouragement indeed!

[Rían]

How nice! People need to do that more often - so often we say a compliment about someone else TO someone else (i.e., telling a mutual friend "Didn't Tessar sound great?" but not telling Tessar).

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

What are you planning to sing for your auditions?

I really have NO idea...

I'm thinking Handel, mostly, but i have no concrete decisions as to exactly what at this point in time.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

I'm thinking Handel, mostly, but i have no concrete decisions as to exactly what at this point in time.

Can't go wrong.

SIXTY SECOND RULES? WHAT NONSENSE IS THIS???

[Tessar]

Hmmm... not sure if you're familiar with "The Priests," but I actually have a voice rather like the baritone priest, and we do the same thing. He has the right placement, but he never sings 'pure' vowels. They're all shaded with mutes... right now I'm trying to learn how to sing the right vowels.

Anyways, all that to say.... he sings pretty, so I don't mind having a voice like his. I believe my voice is a little more hefty and sizable than his is, but I believe the tembre is very similar.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Hmmm... not sure if you're familiar with "The Priests," but I actually have a voice rather like the baritone priest, and we do the same thing. He has the right placement, but he never sings 'pure' vowels. They're all shaded with mutes... right now I'm trying to learn how to sing the right vowels.

Anyways, all that to say.... he sings pretty, so I don't mind having a voice like his. I believe my voice is a little more hefty and sizable than his is, but I believe the tembre is very similar.

If you go on youtube and look up a soprano named Lisa Saffer, she's probably the closest thing to another me you'll find out there. She has that high placement and reedy timbre. I've never heard her sing anything with crazy high notes in it, though. I don't know if she does that stuff but if not, then that's where we differ. There is also another, Cyndia Sieden, who is also very similar and does have the crazy high notes.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

SIXTY SECOND RULES? WHAT NONSENSE IS THIS???

Ummm......


That's even worse than musical theater!


Really though, if i actually had to pick 60 seconds of Handel to display what i can do, it would probably be part of the da capo from "Tornami a vagheggiar" - complete with ornamentation and Eb6's - or else something very similar.

Thoughts?

[Tessar]

Had a lesson on Wednesday. It was great. He was really blown away with my progress, and I was too.

I got my G back. I couldn't take an "oo" past the F# but on "Oh" I sailed up to a G pretty easily. It was very funny... on the "oo" and the "oh" I had no idea how high I was singing, because there was no sense of strain... just that as I tried to go to the next note my voice kept cracking in sort of a weird way... like there was nothing "wrong", just that the cords weren't quite coming together right. My teacher said that it's just because the cords aren't used to functioning that way that high... they need a little time to adjust, and now that my throat is really open and I'm not straining, the cords can actually properly adjust.

So lots of exciting progress.

Interestingly enough the vowels are indeed a little darker already. All I have to do is sing the pure vowel and it's bit by bit sinking back into a deeper placement. I love it.

Really surprised myself last night during choir rehearsal with how much my voice has improved in just a few days... sang a piece that I'd been a little bit terrified of because it basically just hangs out between B3 and D4, and keeps popping up to E4's... none of those notes are too high, but the tessitura is a little ridiculous. But last night I had noooo problem with it at all.


I got really sung out, though. O_o Hour and a half lesson, then hour and a half choir rehearsal, and then the organist wanted to rehearse "But Who May Abide." He said it was great, but the last page was really flat, and I said, "I know, I'm just all sung out--I haven't got the stamina left to give it proper support." So he wanted to run through the last three pages again, but a page and a half in I had to stop and explain to him that I really had nothing left. My voice was fine, I just had no energy to use.

It's quite different, though. Now when I'm getting sung out it's not that my cords are feeling rough (unless I keep singing past the point where I can't support... then it gets rough O_o), it's just that I don't have the physical stamina to keep supporting the voice with good breaths.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Had a lesson on Wednesday. It was great. He was really blown away with my progress, and I was too.

Awesome!

I got my G back.

Rock on!

Really surprised myself last night during choir rehearsal with how much my voice has improved in just a few days... sang a piece that I'd been a little bit terrified of because it basically just hangs out between B3 and D4, and keeps popping up to E4's... none of those notes are too high, but the tessitura is a little ridiculous. But last night I had noooo problem with it at all.

A lot of choir music is that way - high tessitura - it's not so great for those with bigger voices like yourself.

I got really sung out, though. O_o Hour and a half lesson, then hour and a half choir rehearsal, and then the organist wanted to rehearse "But Who May Abide." He said it was great, but the last page was really flat, and I said, "I know, I'm just all sung out--I haven't got the stamina left to give it proper support." So he wanted to run through the last three pages again, but a page and a half in I had to stop and explain to him that I really had nothing left. My voice was fine, I just had no energy to use.

Be careful here, though... I had a teacher once who was actually trying to get me to sing more like a full lyric soprano (my Fach is actually "lyric coloratura", so i have aspects of both lyric and coloratura - but i am on the lighter side). We kept working on more support, to the point where it almost felt unnatural. It was as if my ribcage felt over-extended, and my breath felt a little over-blown. Let's just say it was a tad uncomfortable, and not just in that "you'll adjust to this" sort of way. A ribcage size is what it is. I'll never have a huge voice because i'll never have a huge body. Basta.

Just be careful of those who would hear a certain sound in you and then try to make you into something other than what you are. I know you love this teacher, and maybe i'm misunderstanding that his technique is causing you to feel sung out. I sure hope not. Sorry to be such a mother hen.

[Tessar]

Haha, you have every right to be concerned, and actually I know the feeling you're talking about... but this is not that. It's not a feeling that my voice can't handle it, and it's not my breath riding up, backing up, or any other number of things I've experienced while trying to learn how to breath correctly.

This is just an energy thing. I have -very- long days... for example my Tuesdays and Thursdays... work from 7-12 in the morning, then school from 2-8:15 at night, and M/W/F are quite busy as well, along with Wednesday night choir rehearsals that don't let me get home till 9 or 9:30.

I've never sung with more ease in my life, it's just a question of having the actual energy to sing. I was having to take a bunch of breaths in odd places because I didn't have the strength left in me to keep my ribs from collapsing in. I was very physically tired. I fell asleep the minute my head hit the pillow last night.

You know, you do make me realize... I should not be saying sung-out, because technically speaking I'm not. I could've kept singing and it would have sounded okay, but I was too physically worn out. I should just say "too tired to sing."

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I was having to take a bunch of breaths in odd places because I didn't have the strength left in me to keep my ribs from collapsing in. I was very physically tired. I fell asleep the minute my head hit the pillow last night.

Ok, this is different...

You know, you do make me realize... I should not be saying sung-out, because technically speaking I'm not. I could've kept singing and it would have sounded okay, but I was too physically worn out. I should just say "too tired to sing."

Good! Not that you were so tired, lol, but that it was not a matter of being truly sung out. I had that feeling with the teacher i mentioned in my last post and, it was not a good or normal thing. One should never leave their voice lesson nearly unable to talk... I'm glad that's not what's happening!

[Tessar]

I did scare myself last night, though. I sang in the afternoon and everything was just dandy, then went to school... from 12:30-8:15 I was so preoccupied with some other things going on that I just didn't think about eating or drinking anything...

So 8:20 I get in a practice room and start singing, and my voice is totally shot. Cracking in odd places, very little energy to support the voice, I felt like I was singing with a lot of pressure to make the sound. So I freaked out a little and after about 15 minutes I stopped and started thinking.... then I realized I'd had nothing to drink for about eight hours. No wonder!!! O_o Not enough moisture on my cords, so the pitches were cracking, and I needed more pressure to make the cords work.

So I'll have to be more careful not to be so preoccupied... lost out on some significant practice time, but it's a good lesson to learn how dehydration affects my voice. Always be hydrated!!!!!!

[Voronwen]

Sometimes, singing is therapy.


There is nothing i want more right now than to rip into a tearful rendition of "Ach, ich fuhl's". Or "Traurigkeit, vard mir zum Lose". But there are other people in the house.

[Tessar]

Well, sang my solo. I think it went okay... I'm not thrilled. I didn't let the breath carry the tone, so the whole thing is kind of pushed, which made my vibrato flutter a bit, and I lost my placement a couple of times so the tone is not as consistent as it could be, the runs were not as smooth as they should have been, and I completely blew out my low notes. The practice recordings were better than the actual performance...

But for using technique that I've only had for about a week and a half, and considering that I couldn't make it through the song previous to that.... I'm pretty okay with how it sounded.

We're gonna take a step back into something a little easier than Messiah for a while so that I don't get into the habit of pushing the voice. I wasn't pushing in rehearsal, but the fact that I did in performance indicates that the piece was definitely a little too big for me.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

We're gonna take a step back into something a little easier than Messiah for a while so that I don't get into the habit of pushing the voice. I wasn't pushing in rehearsal, but the fact that I did in performance indicates that the piece was definitely a little too big for me.

That piece is rather low.... Give it some time


I got a chance to do some singing tonight, and, interestingly enough.... the higher and more florid a piece was, the more comfortable it actually was. And that's after a whole week of crying.

Maybe i shouldn't be so surprised.

[Tessar]

You probably shouldn't be surprised, you little soprano you.

Just got an e-mail from my voice teacher... he's been having some problems for a few weeks with his voice (and by "problems" I mean that at close to 70 he's still popping out High A's....) and he went to see a singing doctor. This guy is completely on the 'edge' of what's what with vocal science. He can scope you at up to 600x magnification, where most ENT's can only get up to 100x. Apparently my teacher is recovering from laryngitis and there's still some tiny micro swelling, and that's why he felt like he was having to sing with a little extra pressure.

Also, get this... the doctor told him that his vocal cords look like a 40 year-old baritone, not someone pushing 70. Isn't that odd? It's probably partially genetics, but the doctor told him that a majority of it is good vocal technique because by 40, if you have bad technique your voice will already be starting to wobble and you'll have a dry sound... so for the sound to not only maintain, but for the cords to look so young, it's part genetics but mostly technique.


... SO THAT'S ENCOURAGING. Now if I can just absorb that technique....


I love this man. A little gem from the other night during choir rehearsal when he sat next to me,

"Tessar, we need to have another lesson as soon as possible. What the hell was that vowel? You're so close to being right it pains me, but we have work to do..." followed one measure later by, "You know, I think you have the best ears of anyone your age I've ever met. You were born to sing." ..... three minutes later, "What was that? What was that vowel? You know how to do that one! Sing it right!"

[Earniel]

Sounds like you're quite the team. Did it go well to leave your other teacher? I remember you dreaded that conversation.

[Voronwen]

Technique is everything. A voice that's pushed will not have longevity.