Ents - Page 3

Dunadan · 10-09-2002, 05:10 AM

too right!

Now then, let's start a thread on allegorical accounts of WWII with a feudal socialist sub-text, critique of post-industrial values and an analysis of the role of women. Oh and while we're at it we could assess themes of eugenics and racial purity.

Then again, let's not

**Nurvingiel** · 10-09-2002, 04:41 PM

Very good points Dunadan and everyone else too!

Okay, so we can't pinpoint their government. Maybe they didn't even have one. We could discuss the biology of Ents...

Do you think Ents can be any kind of tree? Are they limited to being hardwoods (ex. maple, oak) or softwoods (ex. pine, fir)?

My theory is that they're hardwoods.

I tend to mix up angiosperms and gymnosperms, but one of them talks about hardwoods and the other softwoods.

Ñólendil · 10-09-2002, 07:37 PM

There are eight different kinds of trees mentioned in reference to Ents: oak, rowan, fir, linden, beech, birch, chestnut and the ash. I imagine there were as many different kinds of Ents as there were trees.

There were three known "Elders" (I'm not sure if that term is used), Treebeard, Leaflock and Skinbark, but each Ent would appear to belong to different peoples based on their kind. Quickbeam for instance, although under the "authority" of Leaflock, was of the people of the Rowan. He mentions one of the peoples of the Entwives, the People of the Rose. The Entwives love the smaller kinds of trees, and the bushes, and such.

Treebeard reminded Pippin and Merry of the oak, and Treebeard had evergreen trees outside his house. Likewise, there are rowans standing outside Quickbeam's home.

**Nurvingiel** · 10-12-2002, 12:42 AM

Thanks Nolendil! That clears up a lot...

I noticed that all the trees except fir were hardwoods.

In case anyones curious, gymnosperms are conifers and angiosperms are hardwoods. Angiosperms evolved later, and include all flowering plants.

katya · 11-14-2002, 07:11 PM

were ents autotrophs? we are going over all kinds of food chain things in biology right now and it makes me wonder where ents fit in. By the way i thought that gymnosperms included both conifers and deciduous trees. but then again what about like apple trees....um....yeah.

Cirdan · 11-14-2002, 07:48 PM

Iwas just re-reading that particular chapter and the impression i got was that ents varied like trees, that the original ents were awared by elves, and that while entwives were around there were entings. Since the entings stopped without the females...

**Nurvingiel** · 11-18-2002, 12:22 AM

Diciduous trees, or broadleaved trees, are angiosperms, along with all flowering plants. (Apple trees, grass, tulips etc.) Conifers are gymnosperms.

BeardofPants · 11-23-2004, 08:51 PM

*bump* Anyone wanna talk about ents again?

Lizra · 11-23-2004, 11:15 PM

Good idea! Where's that gal that IS a tree?

Where does the word "Ent" come from (Seems like all the words have neat derivatives) What essays does MM have on ents?

Forkbeard · 11-24-2004, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizra

Good idea! Where's that gal that IS a tree?

Where does the word "Ent" come from (Seems like all the words have neat derivatives) What essays does MM have on ents?

"ent" comes from "ent", an Old English word that Tolkien adapted and gave a new meaning too. It is usually translated as "giant". The word appears more than once in Beowulf, for example, describing the "hall" the dragon lives in as "enta geweorc", the work of giants.

FB

***Earniel*** · 12-01-2004, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizra

Where does the word "Ent" come from (Seems like all the words have neat derivatives)

It is probably not related but in Dutch there's a verb 'ent' that means the practise of cutting a branch of one plant/tree and fix it to another host plant/tree so the branch finally grows on the other tree and becomes part of it.

Forkbeard · 12-03-2004, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eärniel

It is probably not related but in Dutch there's a verb 'ent' that means the practise of cutting a branch of one plant/tree and fix it to another host plant/tree so the branch finally grows on the other tree and becomes part of it.

Hey Earniel,

You're quite right, it isn't related. The short story is that Dutch enten stems from Fr. enter, a shortened form of Late Latin *emputare, from Greek emphutos (a graft, btw); completely unrelated to "ent" giant.

FB

***Valandil*** · 12-03-2004, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forkbeard

...The short story is that Dutch enten stems from Fr. enter...

VERY good pun!!

Oh - and I think an equivalent English word would be 'graft' - which is also, oddly enough, a word for corrupt practices.

**Nurvingiel** · 12-03-2004, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizra

Good idea! Where's that gal that IS a tree?

Where does the word "Ent" come from (Seems like all the words have neat derivatives) What essays does MM have on ents?

I am a tree.

It's a forestry thing... I was the only forestry student at my residence... and it grew from there.

(Grew! *rimshot*)

I think Ents would be okay with silviculture (tree-panting, stand tending etc.) except they would probably not appreciate stand thinning. Entwives would probably be more into silviculture.

Ents would probably be more into forest planning and management, except they wouldn't be managing for timber harvesting! They would be managing to minimize the damage of human activity I bet. And would also think in the long term. Very long term.

Establishing protected areas would be #1 on the list.

ItalianLegolas · 12-11-2004, 10:43 PM

no, i don't think your wrong, you are right the storyline for the ents just grounds to a halt, theres nothing in the appendices (at least i don't think so) i'll check...

Embladyne · 12-12-2004, 12:09 AM

I appreciated how so much about the Ents and Entwives is left to one's imagination. Also, the tragedy of the Ent's existence apart from the Entwives made the fragments of story about them big enough for me.

I was musing....in norse mythology Ask and Embla, the first humans, are made from tree trunks floating in a river. (There are so many versions of this...I'm picking the one I know best.) Ask is the ash tree, and Embla, and elm. Since in the list of trees that are associated with Ents there was the mention of Ash, I was wondering if I should stretch logic, and presume that Entwives might be associated with Elms, among other trees and plants....

ItalianLegolas · 12-14-2004, 06:39 PM

thats interesting, norse mythology huh?

Lenya · 01-19-2005, 04:39 PM

It's really cool that Tolkien didn't tell us exactly what happened to the Entwives. Its part of the mystery in the story - like who Bombadil is. It makes the story more fun & personal, you can decide what you think had happened to them.

Pytt · 01-19-2005, 04:57 PM

I think it is good we didn't got to know the complete story about the entviwes, but sometimes I am a bit frustrated about not knowing. all you ever got is your own and others teories, and you will never know hundred percent what happened.

Lenya · 01-19-2005, 05:05 PM

That's the whole idee. It sucks to be spoon fed

10-09-2002, 04:41 PM	#42
Nurvingiel Co-President of Entmoot Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 8,397	Reading into LOTR too much is sometimes fun. Very good points Dunadan and everyone else too! Okay, so we can't pinpoint their government. Maybe they didn't even have one. We could discuss the biology of Ents... Do you think Ents can be any kind of tree? Are they limited to being hardwoods (ex. maple, oak) or softwoods (ex. pine, fir)? My theory is that they're hardwoods. I tend to mix up angiosperms and gymnosperms, but one of them talks about hardwoods and the other softwoods.

10-09-2002, 07:37 PM	#43
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	There are eight different kinds of trees mentioned in reference to Ents: oak, rowan, fir, linden, beech, birch, chestnut and the ash. I imagine there were as many different kinds of Ents as there were trees. There were three known "Elders" (I'm not sure if that term is used), Treebeard, Leaflock and Skinbark, but each Ent would appear to belong to different peoples based on their kind. Quickbeam for instance, although under the "authority" of Leaflock, was of the people of the Rowan. He mentions one of the peoples of the Entwives, the People of the Rose. The Entwives love the smaller kinds of trees, and the bushes, and such. Treebeard reminded Pippin and Merry of the oak, and Treebeard had evergreen trees outside his house. Likewise, there are rowans standing outside Quickbeam's home. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan Last edited by Ñólendil : 10-09-2002 at 07:40 PM.

11-14-2002, 07:48 PM	#46
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	Iwas just re-reading that particular chapter and the impression i got was that ents varied like trees, that the original ents were awared by elves, and that while entwives were around there were entings. Since the entings stopped without the females... __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

11-23-2004, 08:51 PM	#48
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	bump Anyone wanna talk about ents again? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

11-23-2004, 11:15 PM	#49
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Good idea! Where's that gal that IS a tree? Where does the word "Ent" come from (Seems like all the words have neat derivatives) What essays does MM have on ents? __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

10-09-2002, 05:10 AM	#41
Dunadan The Quite Querulous Quendi Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oxon, UK Posts: 638	too right! Now then, let's start a thread on allegorical accounts of WWII with a feudal socialist sub-text, critique of post-industrial values and an analysis of the role of women. Oh and while we're at it we could assess themes of eugenics and racial purity. Then again, let's not

10-12-2002, 12:42 AM	#44
Nurvingiel Co-President of Entmoot Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 8,397	Thanks Nolendil! That clears up a lot... I noticed that all the trees except fir were hardwoods. In case anyones curious, gymnosperms are conifers and angiosperms are hardwoods. Angiosperms evolved later, and include all flowering plants.

11-14-2002, 07:11 PM	#45
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	were ents autotrophs? we are going over all kinds of food chain things in biology right now and it makes me wonder where ents fit in. By the way i thought that gymnosperms included both conifers and deciduous trees. but then again what about like apple trees....um....yeah.

12-11-2004, 10:43 PM	#55
ItalianLegolas Tolkien-aholic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: somewhere in the solar system... more specifically NJ... Posts: 712	no, i don't think your wrong, you are right the storyline for the ents just grounds to a halt, theres nothing in the appendices (at least i don't think so) i'll check... __________________ What was lost is now found.

12-12-2004, 12:09 AM	#56
Embladyne Honourary Elitist Inklette Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: between the mountains and the sea Posts: 704	I appreciated how so much about the Ents and Entwives is left to one's imagination. Also, the tragedy of the Ent's existence apart from the Entwives made the fragments of story about them big enough for me. I was musing....in norse mythology Ask and Embla, the first humans, are made from tree trunks floating in a river. (There are so many versions of this...I'm picking the one I know best.) Ask is the ash tree, and Embla, and elm. Since in the list of trees that are associated with Ents there was the mention of Ash, I was wondering if I should stretch logic, and presume that Entwives might be associated with Elms, among other trees and plants.... __________________ Even on the pinnacle of a palace a crow does not become an eagle. My DA page

12-14-2004, 06:39 PM	#57
ItalianLegolas Tolkien-aholic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: somewhere in the solar system... more specifically NJ... Posts: 712	thats interesting, norse mythology huh? __________________ What was lost is now found.

01-19-2005, 04:39 PM	#58
Lenya Elentári Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: South Africa Posts: 727	It's really cool that Tolkien didn't tell us exactly what happened to the Entwives. Its part of the mystery in the story - like who Bombadil is. It makes the story more fun & personal, you can decide what you think had happened to them.

01-19-2005, 04:57 PM	#59
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	I think it is good we didn't got to know the complete story about the entviwes, but sometimes I am a bit frustrated about not knowing. all you ever got is your own and others teories, and you will never know hundred percent what happened. __________________ Don't Panic!

01-19-2005, 05:05 PM	#60
Lenya Elentári Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: South Africa Posts: 727	That's the whole idee. It sucks to be spoon fed

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