Victimless crimes

[Lizra]

Porn sucks. Think what you want, as a woman I'll go with Wayfarer's attitude on porn anyday. Prostitution seems a fate worse than death. Porn fosters prostituion, (IMHO) Life is cruel, yes, but it can be a joy too. Think positive!! Do not dwell in despair.

[afro-elf]

Porn sucks

Yeah in a matter of speaking it TRULY does


But that is just a matter of taste. No pun intended. If someone wants to buy it fine. If someone does not like it, they don't have to buy it.

Porn fosters prostituion

I'd be more prone to say biology does.

Prostitution seems a fate worse than death

it could be seen as just as service. In countries were it is regulated or not illegal the rates of abuse are greatly reduced.
This countries tend not to have the moralistic view that the body/sex is dirty or filthly and that it is a part of biology. It seems that they are able to tell the difference between the bio-chemistry of sex and the bio-chemistry of love.

[Lizra]

Hmmmmm, I don't see sex as dirty so much as I think of it as something special, the ultimate gift I have to give to my one true love. I would be crushed if he did not feel the same way. Life is so short, I'd like to keep it sweet! Rise above biology!! Set your goals higher than that. Seriously, I hate that greedy jerks can take a beautiful thing like sex, and turn it into a money making entrprise that preys on the baser instincts of men. When I say baser instincts, I'm thinking of the way most porn is. It seems to be the "dirty" aspect of it that sells. Most of it goes way beyond a picture of a beautiful woman's body. I think I better stop here, PG13 you know!

[afro-elf]

Rise above biology!! Set your goals higher than that.

Well, neuro-science, bio-psychology, behavioral genetics and sociobiology have a preponderance of evidence that what you just stated is an impossibilty. Our higher ideals are part of the emergent property of a highly developed brain.

Seriously, I hate that greedy jerks can take a beautiful thing like sex, and turn it into a money making entrprise that preys on the baser instincts of men.

to use your term women can be base too. And for many there is a big gap between sex and love.


The point is should the law say that people can't pay for sex. If they what too fine. That's their business. If you think sex is something special cool. No problem with that. But if Tom and Sue set up a business deal that's between them.

[Lizra]

I don't think it's impossible , I do it everyday! Higher ideals are good!

Yes, women can be base. I'm talking about uour average, everyday porn you see on the magazine rack or video store. 85% of it is "nasty" girls doing"nasty" things to turn MEN on. I'm talking about the real world, not the clinical world. I like the rule that says people shouldn't pay for sex. It protects innocent young people (and poor people) who are easily confused about sex and be preyed upon by jerks just trying to make a buck for themselves.

Just because an idea is "conservative" doesn't necessarily make it wrong!

[afro-elf]

I don't think it's impossible , I do it everyday! Higher ideals are good!

Still just emergent properties so you are not overcoming biology just acting on it in a manner that you CALL higher ideals.

85% of it is "nasty" girls doing"nasty" things to turn MEN on. I'm talking about the real world, not the clinical world.

Perhaps nasty girls like doing nasty things

BUT the point of this is if someone wants to buy so what. The so called side affects are the extreme not the norm. Some people will watch and get strange ideas and do weird stuff. But your avg due is going to get to auto-erotic reasons. he is not going to start stalking and hating his girl.


Some religious people do strange, weird stuff. Some do the most foul acts imaginable. Should we ban that because some people think that religion is vulgar and insulting to human dignity?

[Lizra]

Well, I hope AE. I don't think nasty girls like it, That's a myth the porn industry wants men to believe to erase the guilt over trashing the beautiful act of sex. I've been around the block a few times, those nasty girls are usually just desperate. girls. I don't think I get the religous foul stuff bit, but we probably shouldn't go there. I see your point, I hope you see mine.

[afro-elf]

Well, I hope AE.

You hope that they ban religion?

I do not buy into the idea that ALL the nasty girls like it. HOWEVER there are a lot of "freaks" in the ebonics vernacular. There are a lot of girls who do "things" that are not in porn. Some like it. look at the number of amatuers sites out there. Do you think ALL this women are desperate? Is it so hard to belive that A LOT of people both men are women are "freaky"

Yes some girls are deseperate I DO NOT deny this: however, perhaps the idea that Nasty girls don't like it could be a anti-porn proporganda

[Lizra]

I hope that the average dude does not look at some porn and go out and stalk a girl!

Most nasty girls are nasty because their boyfriends or husbands want them to be. There are guys out there who get a thrill out of thinking their girlfriend is a nasty ***. The girls will do anything to keep the guys happy. I'd bet my garden on this. that's why there are all those amatuer sites.

[afro-elf]

I have to disagree. I've known many women and I dated from across the globe. And many are nasty and it is to act out their desires.

To totally blame males is being naive about human nature. Maybe your experience with diverse people is less than mine.

Why do you assume women don't what to be "nasty"

[Human#3.141592653]

To every one out there who hadn't figured it out yet; yes, women do like it. But mostly men like it more. Why? I have no idea. Truely, I think that yes, some porn does dehumanize women and some does not.

Next, there must be something wrong intially with any one who goes out and stolks any one else. That the book/mag made them do it is ludicrous.

One thing no one is talking about is female porn or erotica. Many femenists that want porn banned want erotica legalized, because they claim it isn't as...whatever.

[Lizra]

I don't totally blame males, just alot of the time! Sure there are some freaky females out their. (I keep hearing that song by Apollonia "Nasty Girl" in my mind, She's a born again christian now! Guess she was just trying to keep Prince happy and make some $)

I've got tons of experience, I don't see how diversity can change my mind, as I only speak about things I know. It's all my experience that has given me this opinion. Women want a loving relationship with a man they can trust, who knows how to make them feel good physically and mentally. Most women I know can "feel good" physically with the standard amorous procedure and don't need to be photographed or video taped being Freaky"

[afro-elf]

I what to make clear when i used the nasty in the previous post
I did not mean it in a perjuritive manner. I forgot to add the quotes about it.

also I wanted to add the the women mentioned about not only were they friends or girlfriends across the globe they also ran the gamut of social class, education and profession.

[afro-elf]

FYI:


That was Vanity and don't apollonia.

Why couldn't it just have been that she was sexually free and they gravitated to each other. If you have seen any of her pre BAC interviews i don't think that you would think she was doing just for prince. She turned into a BAC after a broken heart. ( Nikki Sixx of motely crue)



[

[Lizra]

Oh Poor Vanity! I can't stop giggling. Nikki Six breaking your heart!! PuHleeze! That girl is just plain silly. Well whatever AE, I still go with my personal opinion that porn sucks! Thanks for the debate.

[afro-elf]

Women want a loving relationship with a man they can trust, who knows how to make them feel good physically and mentally. Most women I know can "feel good" physically with the standard amourous procedure and don't need to be photographed or video taped being Freaky"

I don't deny this. The only differences is some photograph themselves and some don't

some are private "freaks" and some are exhibitionist.

They and the men who watch porn can and do for happy loving relationships just like anyone else. But again some do it behind closed doors some don't.

[afro-elf]

Originally posted by Lizra
Oh Poor Vanity! I can't stop giggling. Nikki Six breaking your heart!! PuHleeze! That girl is just plain silly. Well whatever AE, I still go with my personal opinion that porn sucks! Thanks for the debate.

No problem mi amiga.

I like people with whom I can disagree with and still be pals with.

[Lizra]

[Wayfarer]

Originally posted by afro-elf
Why do you assume this? The number of HETERO aids victims and HETERO with std FAR out strips those of gays. I am aware of many gays are are in happy relationship that don't fool around and some happy single gays.

I know some heteros who will and do sleep with anyone.

I did not assume this. In fact, I was going to say something else entirely when a quick google search led me here. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

Originally posted by afro-elf
There is still more damage health and cost wise from Tobacco and Alcohol than all narcotics combined. Also for myself I never advocated narcotics.

Only because Tobacco and Alcohol are legal, and therefore much more widespread. I've yet to hear of anyone killed by thier first experience drinking or smoking.

Originally posted by afro-elf
More bull. You are just spouting the standard convervative line on porn. There is NO dearth of porn available. The people who have unhealthy attitudes towards the opposite sex are mostly to be "unhealthy" themselves in the first place.

Yes there are people who are just nasty in the first place. However, pornography treats the opposite sex as though they exist only to provide you with sensual pleasure.

Originally posted by afro-elf
Hate to burst your bubble but women throughout the world are treated that way. The same guy who would abuse a prostitute is likely to be the same guy who would do that any woman.

Yes. But prostitutes are... chattle. People will treat a woman they've 'rented' far worse than they will someone they met on the street. When human beings are put in the position of being property, they're treated as such-objects to be used and discarded.

[afro-elf]

I find the report interesting but I find it to be very biased and erroneous.
It reads like a creationist article ( I know the God thing again)

Only because Tobacco and Alcohol are legal

This is an assumpation not a fact. Some things can lose their appeal after the danger is gone. I'd be interested to know how things work in Holland.

I've yet to hear of anyone killed by thier first experience drinking or smoking.

Again I said I was not promoting narcotics. lesser drugs was more on my mind. Hell, I don't drink, smoke or take any form of drug.

. However, pornography treats the opposite sex as though they exist only to provide you with sensual pleasure.

why do you focus on the opposite sex. There is gay porn you know. the is fem dom porn where the men are submissive.

Yes. But prostitutes are... chattle. People will treat a woman they've 'rented' far worse than they will someone they met on the street. When human beings are put in the position of being property, they're treated as such-objects to be used and discarded.

Sounds just any a worker in any industrial society

Yes some guys treat their "girls" like sh!t. However, having been around some so called 'seedy" places around the world. It seems the "trashy" girls TEND to hook up with the trashy guys. However, often the situation often turns it to one where the guys and the girls will have their favorites and very thing is cool. The term is called GF which stands for girl friend experience. And the guy and the are together as a "couple"


BUT i do not in ANYWAY deny that some of the girls are in really bad situations. Especially those who have been STOLEN and forced to work. That I find deplorable.

By only point being is if tom pays sue for sex i don't care. If tom abuses sue that's a different story. But the same guys who abuses sue would probably treat his wife or girl like sh!t too.

maybe the difference with these abusers is that their wife or the girlfriend may have it worse because they are "stuck" with the !@#$%^&*