The word Entmoot. - Page 3

***Earniel*** · 04-18-2002, 01:33 PM

It's Roo Hir rim to me

***azalea*** · 04-18-2002, 01:41 PM

I'm w/ Palian on this one.

Wulažg · 04-18-2002, 05:52 PM

Why don't we just wait for the movie to answer all of our pronunciation questions?

Pailan · 04-18-2002, 06:09 PM

Well, we could wait for the movie. I understand they had language pros helping them with Tolkien's languages. But for years we have all tried to work out the pronounciations based on what Tolkien had written. And many of us never read Tolkien's words on pronounciation until long after we had developed our own style.

I enjoy this discussion, because it's one I still have with my friends to this day. I never take it too seriously. Keep it fun and informative is my motto.

Bilbo Baggins · 04-18-2002, 06:23 PM

The trouble with Entmoot is that it is a collaboration of words in the first place.

Still, noone is right, yet noone is wrong.

Beleg Strongbow · 04-19-2002, 12:15 PM

Perhaps the correct way to pronounce Tolkien's words is whatever you think!

eowyn144 · 04-19-2002, 03:07 PM

Ro hirr im.
if i could roll my r's then i'd roll them.but i can't.....so i won't

Aragorns Dimple · 04-19-2002, 10:49 PM

Another rather tricky word to pronounce is ...oh...gosh....anything in Sindarin or Quenya!

galadriel88 · 04-19-2002, 10:52 PM

I just say Rorhim. *shrugs*

I hate the way they say some things in the movie! Like Mordor: They're always going "Moorrrdoor." Aaaah!

Arathorn · 04-19-2002, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by galadriel88
I just say Rorhim. *shrugs*

I hate the way they say some things in the movie! Like Mordor: They're always going "Moorrrdoor." Aaaah!

I think that's because that's how Mordor was meant to be pronounced. They had language experts on the job. I think it's kind of neat, though.

***Khamûl*** · 04-20-2002, 12:26 AM

It sounds more sinister that way. Morrdoorrr... I have a tendency to say Morder or something like that. I never realized it until I saw the movie. I also said Legolas without accenting the LEGOlas. I didn't say it like the building blocks. I guess I'm just weird.

***azalea*** · 04-20-2002, 09:47 AM

If you can get through Appendix E and actually understand it, it gives you a pretty good idea of pronunciations, although hearing a native speak it would be better

. I was making a mistake on my dwarvish kh (I was confusing it w/ Orkish kh I think), until Khamul posted the quote from the dictionary. That appendix is hard to understand, but luckily I was a teacher and was pretty good at grammar, so I was able to get an idea.

Pailan · 04-20-2002, 01:00 PM

Of course there is the deal with pronouncing all those names of the Rohirrim: Theoden, Eomer, Eowyn etc...

Take Eowyn for example; I usally pronounce her name like this- Ay-O-win. But I think it really is EE-O-win.

Anyone else?

***azalea*** · 04-20-2002, 01:24 PM

I pronounce it AY-oh-wen, AY-oh-mer, THAY-oh-den, and I think that is correct, because if the acute accent, which normally indicates that sound. Also, doesn't he indicate a long e with the two dots, like in Feanor and Aule? It is a bit confusing in the index, I think for me because Tolkein would, as an Englishman, pronounced things differently than me to begin w/, so naturally his explanation of sounds would be different for me than if he'd been a US citizen.
But I think AY is correct.

***Earniel*** · 04-20-2002, 01:32 PM

Same for me, 'ay' seems right.

Pailan · 04-20-2002, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by azalea
It is a bit confusing in the index, I think for me because Tolkein would, as an Englishman, pronounced things differently than me to begin w/, so naturally his explanation of sounds would be different for me than if he'd been a US citizen.
But I think AY is correct.

I noticed azalea, that you are from down South so I wonder what Tolkien might sound like with a deep southern accent or for that matter with a nice nasal Rhode Island twang?

I do think you are onto something there, though. I have often suspected that Tolkien assumed certian pronounciations based on his expirence as an English man-and a prof. at Oxford no less. There may also be certian assumptions of sounds that come from the scholary world he lived in that are not part of our expierence.

But yeah, Ithink it's "AY" as well and the umlout indicates a long sound for "E".

Wayfarer · 04-20-2002, 02:08 PM

The reason you have problyms is that 'entmoot' is two words. Ent Moot. A Mooting of the Ents. Ent. Moot.

***azalea*** · 04-20-2002, 02:24 PM

Although I do live in the South I am half Northern (My father's side is all from the Northeast, and I lived in MA as a child for a few years) and half Southern (on my mother's side - but she has barely an accent), so I actually don't have a Southern accent, it's very neutral. I live in a rural area around many people who do have thick accents, but they think I sound like a "Yankee"!

When I travel up North people generally can't tell where I'm from. But I do say y'all occasionally.

That's funny, I wonder how things would have been pronounced if Tolkein had been a Southerner. I always wonder about the teachers here trying to teach phonics to their students, for instance a long "i" is pronounced "ah" here! And a short a is "ay", as in ran being pronounced "RAYun". I wonder how Southerners pronounce some of the names in Quenya! I'll bet that would have sounded very strange to Tolkein. (Or those with a Northern accent, for that matter!)

***Earniel*** · 04-20-2002, 02:24 PM

Oh Wayfarer, is it really? Hadn't noticed.

Wayfarer · 04-20-2002, 02:31 PM

In any case, I have no problem pronouncing it. But then, I manage just as well with the different nasals and spirants and miscellaneous bits of speech that seem to be unpopular these days.

04-18-2002, 01:33 PM	#41
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	It's Roo Hir rim to me __________________ We are not things.

04-18-2002, 06:09 PM	#44
Pailan Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: aisle 12, seat#2 Posts: 449	Well, we could wait for the movie. I understand they had language pros helping them with Tolkien's languages. But for years we have all tried to work out the pronounciations based on what Tolkien had written. And many of us never read Tolkien's words on pronounciation until long after we had developed our own style. I enjoy this discussion, because it's one I still have with my friends to this day. I never take it too seriously. Keep it fun and informative is my motto. __________________ "Holy Entmoot, Batman!" "Who knows, Robin? This strange mixing of minds may be the greatest single sevice ever performed for humanity! Let's go, but, inconspicuosly, through the window. We'll use our Batropes. Our job is finished." Oh, btw, Frodo lives.

04-18-2002, 06:23 PM	#45
Bilbo Baggins Sapling Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 12	The trouble with Entmoot is that it is a collaboration of words in the first place. Still, noone is right, yet noone is wrong. __________________ Entmoot - Let your fires burn PabUK - Your source for amusement UK Pagan

04-19-2002, 12:15 PM	#46
Beleg Strongbow Truest of Friends Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pennsylvania, but I have a vacation home in the Westfarthing. Posts: 520	Perhaps the correct way to pronounce Tolkien's words is whatever you think! __________________ "...Beleg Strongbow, truest of friends, greatest in skill of all that harboured in the woods of Beleriand in the Elder Days..." Aure Entuleva! John Kerry for President!

04-19-2002, 03:07 PM	#47
eowyn144 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 435	Ro hirr im. if i could roll my r's then i'd roll them.but i can't.....so i won't __________________ If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe

04-18-2002, 01:41 PM	#42
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	I'm w/ Palian on this one.

04-18-2002, 05:52 PM	#43
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	Why don't we just wait for the movie to answer all of our pronunciation questions?

04-19-2002, 10:49 PM	#48
Aragorns Dimple Enting Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: On Viggo's Chin Posts: 77	Another rather tricky word to pronounce is ...oh...gosh....anything in Sindarin or Quenya! __________________ "Is it nice, my preciousss? Is it juicy? Is it scrumptiously crunchable?" - Gollum

04-19-2002, 10:52 PM	#49
galadriel88 Halfwitted Queen of Lothlorien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Far off in a dream Posts: 1,166	I just say Rorhim. shrugs I hate the way they say some things in the movie! Like Mordor: They're always going "Moorrrdoor." Aaaah! __________________ The beuatiful mind/The beautiful heart/Doesn't deserve the pain/How can I stop the rain? -How Can I Stop the Rain? by Kessid, my new favorite band +Every good thing that comes into my life is only a reflection of the greatest gift of all; the offering of yourself, dear Son of God+ Always remember, you're uniqe, just like everybody else! "The one constant through all the years has been the Trombone. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. Its been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again, but the Trombone has marked the time. This field, this section, this band is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and could be again. Oh, people will come . . . people will most definitely come."

04-20-2002, 12:26 AM	#51
*Khamûl* Slacker Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,759	It sounds more sinister that way. Morrdoorrr... I have a tendency to say Morder or something like that. I never realized it until I saw the movie. I also said Legolas without accenting the LEGOlas. I didn't say it like the building blocks. I guess I'm just weird. __________________ "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31

04-20-2002, 09:47 AM	#52
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	If you can get through Appendix E and actually understand it, it gives you a pretty good idea of pronunciations, although hearing a native speak it would be better . I was making a mistake on my dwarvish kh (I was confusing it w/ Orkish kh I think), until Khamul posted the quote from the dictionary. That appendix is hard to understand, but luckily I was a teacher and was pretty good at grammar, so I was able to get an idea.

04-20-2002, 01:00 PM	#53
Pailan Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: aisle 12, seat#2 Posts: 449	Of course there is the deal with pronouncing all those names of the Rohirrim: Theoden, Eomer, Eowyn etc... Take Eowyn for example; I usally pronounce her name like this- Ay-O-win. But I think it really is EE-O-win. Anyone else? __________________ "Holy Entmoot, Batman!" "Who knows, Robin? This strange mixing of minds may be the greatest single sevice ever performed for humanity! Let's go, but, inconspicuosly, through the window. We'll use our Batropes. Our job is finished." Oh, btw, Frodo lives.

04-20-2002, 01:24 PM	#54
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	I pronounce it AY-oh-wen, AY-oh-mer, THAY-oh-den, and I think that is correct, because if the acute accent, which normally indicates that sound. Also, doesn't he indicate a long e with the two dots, like in Feanor and Aule? It is a bit confusing in the index, I think for me because Tolkein would, as an Englishman, pronounced things differently than me to begin w/, so naturally his explanation of sounds would be different for me than if he'd been a US citizen. But I think AY is correct.

04-20-2002, 01:32 PM	#55
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Same for me, 'ay' seems right. __________________ We are not things.

04-20-2002, 02:08 PM	#57
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	The reason you have problyms is that 'entmoot' is two words. Ent Moot. A Mooting of the Ents. Ent. Moot. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

04-20-2002, 02:24 PM	#58
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Although I do live in the South I am half Northern (My father's side is all from the Northeast, and I lived in MA as a child for a few years) and half Southern (on my mother's side - but she has barely an accent), so I actually don't have a Southern accent, it's very neutral. I live in a rural area around many people who do have thick accents, but they think I sound like a "Yankee"! When I travel up North people generally can't tell where I'm from. But I do say y'all occasionally. That's funny, I wonder how things would have been pronounced if Tolkein had been a Southerner. I always wonder about the teachers here trying to teach phonics to their students, for instance a long "i" is pronounced "ah" here! And a short a is "ay", as in ran being pronounced "RAYun". I wonder how Southerners pronounce some of the names in Quenya! I'll bet that would have sounded very strange to Tolkein. (Or those with a Northern accent, for that matter!)

04-20-2002, 02:31 PM	#60
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	In any case, I have no problem pronouncing it. But then, I manage just as well with the different nasals and spirants and miscellaneous bits of speech that seem to be unpopular these days. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

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