Where TT will end, redux: BIG NEWS re: Shelob - Page 3

Eruviel Greenleaf · 03-16-2002, 01:53 PM

I think I might have read something somewhere about there being elves at Helms Deep. Elves, plural. I hope that is wrong. . .it would be horribly dissapointing if there was more than one elf there, because it goes against the elves-are-fading bit. Which if you ask me, is rather important. . .

Oh, and thanks for putting those up, Pailan!

Comic Book Guy · 03-16-2002, 02:40 PM

I'm going to regret this, because it's going to cause me reading complaints from members repeatedly. Anyway, here are the answers to questions about Elves at Helms Deep.

http://www.tolkienonline.com/movies/changes_ttt.cfm

That should answer your questions.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 03-16-2002, 02:49 PM

Well, Comic Book Guy, thanks for posting that. . .but elves at Helms Deep. . .*shakes head sadly*

Ërendil · 03-16-2002, 05:11 PM

After a long hard battle with dissapointment about not having to see Shelob this year or see the choices of master samwise i have decided to reserve judgment until i have seen the film---to you have any idea how hard that was to say!!!!!!!!!!

***IronParrot*** · 03-17-2002, 12:00 AM

And that, mes amis, is known as wisdom.

GandalfTheWhite · 03-18-2002, 10:11 PM

Do you think the movie the Two Towers will stick to the book, and have the entire first half of the movie be with aragorn, gandalf, merry, and pippin, and then the second half be about frodo and sam, or do you think they will go back and forth between the two? Personally I hope they keep it like in the book. The only problem with the way it is in the book is that people who only see the movies might not like it as much.

Wayfarer · 03-18-2002, 10:22 PM

Ten bucks says they show it in staggered fragments.

emplynx · 03-18-2002, 10:31 PM

I read some where (probably the one ring.net) that is it definitely going back and forth.

Lanelf · 03-18-2002, 10:50 PM

Well if they didn't do it going back and forth, people (like me!) might get annoyed that Sam and Frodo aren't on and walk out, or just come in for the last half. I can't wait to see the end of TTT and start of the Sam and Fro bit of ROTK. BYO tissues!!!
_________
A small cute frog counts off the days till TTT on his LOTR calendar.

***Khamûl*** · 03-18-2002, 11:04 PM

I think they should edit it chronologically. If they didn't, some folks would probably get lost. Most of the action in TTT takes place with Aragorn and Co. so the action will probably focus on them. The Dead Marshes and Henneth Annûn should be pretty cool to see, though.

I'll be happy whichever way they do it, because Hey! It's The Two Towers!

Ërendil · 03-19-2002, 05:06 PM

Even though i don't like it when they change the movie so that it doesn't match the book, i hope that they move it back and forth between the two ...things (I can't remember what to call it). When i read the book the 1st time, i wasn't that bothered what happened to the others...just Sam and Frodo so i was impatient to get onto book 4...there will be other people who think like this.

Comic Book Guy · 03-19-2002, 06:11 PM

This topic is featured in a current thread, because there is already a few replies, I will merge them.

bropous · 03-21-2002, 08:29 PM

Now that it appears that Shelob and the tower of Cirith Ungol are bumped to RotK, one can wonder this:

In all of the Two Towers, Frodo and Sam's journey with Gollum will go just from Emyn Muil to maybe the base of the path to Cirith Ungol and Shelob's Lair.

That's a lot of film and not a lot of action, even though a lot of action is occurring with the other remnants of the Fellowship. So, it only makes sense that The Two Towers is going to give to the audience the "character development" stuff they cried was missing from Fellowship. There will be a good amount of time, set against the parallel plots of Merry, Pippin and Treebeard as well as Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and the Rohirrim, to devote more screen exposure to the interaction of the characters.

So a (relatively) lot of time in Ithilien, after the turning aside at the Gates of Mordor. A lot of screen time for Gollum, which is intriguing. Plenty of time for the development of "events out west" in the neighborhood of the Gap of Rohan and the headwaters of the River Isen.

I imagine The Two Towers might even have a slightly less "hurried" pace than Fellowship. Less material, more time, might be even better crafted.

As for the ending of the film, as far as Sam and Frodo, I see a shot from below the Hobbits as they are starting up the stairway to Cirith Ungol, Frodo looking tired, worn and old, complaining how heavy the Ring is and Sam swearing to carry him to Mount Doom if he has to. Red light glints off the cloudbank hovering above the Pass, as Mount Doom rumbles and vents more and more magma as Sauron's power waxes. they dash for cover as below, an outpouring of Orcs in ranks led by a Nazgul head out of Minas Morgul, beautiful Ithilien in their path. All seems lost. No real hope. And Gollum has mysteriously disappeared....

Cue credits.

[Sorry, CBG!]

bropous · 03-21-2002, 08:34 PM

I would also prefer that the plot both east and west of the Anduin should be told going back and forth. Would add an air of even greater immediacy to the efforts of the Fellowship.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 03-21-2002, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bropous
I would also prefer that the plot both east and west of the Anduin should be told going back and forth. Would add an air of even greater immediacy to the efforts of the Fellowship.

I have heard that it will indeed switch back and forth, from a number of interviews and such. Which is good, in terms of being a movie, it will work better that way.

GandalfTheWhite · 03-22-2002, 01:04 AM

i think bropous ending sounds pretty good, i also think that the crossroads would make a good ending

Entlover · 03-24-2002, 02:31 AM

But don't forget all those people who said "where's the ending? It can't end here!" Many people want a happy ending, or at least an upbeat one,especially if they have to wait another year to see the third part. PJ may take that into account. I liked the mood at the end of FotR: melancholy but hopeful. I'd hate to leave Frodo and Sam separated for the whole year.

jerseydevil · 03-24-2002, 02:46 AM

I would like people leaving the theater thinking Frodo is dead. If they didn't read the books - that's their problem. Maybe it'll make them want to read them.

I just think it would be hard to have advertisements for RotK and not include footage of Frodo and Sam though. If they did that - then people would realize that Frodo wasn't really dead, just like they have the problem with Gandalf the White now in TT.

RosieCotton · 03-24-2002, 11:26 AM

I would prefer they keep it as they did in the books: Aragorn and Co. in the first half; Sam and Frodo in the second. However, people who aren't farmiliar with the books would probably get confused. Oh well. There are worse things I have heard. Much worse.
~Rosie~

Warrior · 03-24-2002, 06:04 PM

jerseydevil - i too was thinking that having people leave the theater thinking Frodo was dead would be a good idea. The way i saw it was having Sam walking off with Frodo's things (Sting, the Ring, etc...) and he sees/hears the orcs coming from both directions and have it end right when Sam is about to put the ring on....leaving things up in the open and people who don't know the books think Frodo is dead and Sam now has the burden on his shoulder.

03-16-2002, 01:53 PM	#41
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	I think I might have read something somewhere about there being elves at Helms Deep. Elves, plural. I hope that is wrong. . .it would be horribly dissapointing if there was more than one elf there, because it goes against the elves-are-fading bit. Which if you ask me, is rather important. . . Oh, and thanks for putting those up, Pailan! __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

03-16-2002, 02:49 PM	#43
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Well, Comic Book Guy, thanks for posting that. . .but elves at Helms Deep. . .shakes head sadly __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

03-16-2002, 05:11 PM	#44
Ërendil Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 389	After a long hard battle with dissapointment about not having to see Shelob this year or see the choices of master samwise i have decided to reserve judgment until i have seen the film---to you have any idea how hard that was to say!!!!!!!!!! __________________ "You're one of the Abaharaki, oh I had forgotten. Look at me, I am completly drenched! I do hate the rain, it makes me so depressed..." "Hehehehe, moeru moeru!" "That's it, set it all on fire; we're gonna smoke out Escaflowne!" "Oh, I hit the wrong target... never mind that creature was useless to us anyway. Our orders were to get the girl? So he isn't our concern, we don't need him!" ^_^ Isn't Dilandau just fantastic? You just have to love the insane, murderous pyro :-D

03-17-2002, 12:00 AM	#45
*IronParrot* Fowl Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada Posts: 53,420	And that, mes amis, is known as wisdom. __________________ All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien

03-18-2002, 10:11 PM	#46
GandalfTheWhite Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 297	Two Towers Do you think the movie the Two Towers will stick to the book, and have the entire first half of the movie be with aragorn, gandalf, merry, and pippin, and then the second half be about frodo and sam, or do you think they will go back and forth between the two? Personally I hope they keep it like in the book. The only problem with the way it is in the book is that people who only see the movies might not like it as much. __________________ "Behold, I am not Gandalf the Grey, whom you betrayed. I am Gandalf the White, who has returned from death. You have no colour now, and I cast you from the order and from the Council." -Gandalf The Road goes ever on and on Down from the door where it began. Now far ahead the Road has gone, And I must follow, if I can, Pursuing it with eager feet, Until it joins some larger way Where many paths and errands meet. And whither then? I cannot say. "He who breaks a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom." -Gandalf "A thing is about to happen which has not happened since the Elder Days: the Ents are going to wake up and find that they are strong." -Gandalf

03-16-2002, 02:40 PM	#42
Comic Book Guy Best Ex-Administrator ever Join Date: May 2001 Location: Ireland Posts: 60,547	I'm going to regret this, because it's going to cause me reading complaints from members repeatedly. Anyway, here are the answers to questions about Elves at Helms Deep. http://www.tolkienonline.com/movies/changes_ttt.cfm That should answer your questions.

03-18-2002, 10:22 PM	#47
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Ten bucks says they show it in staggered fragments. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

03-18-2002, 10:31 PM	#48
emplynx Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,214	I read some where (probably the one ring.net) that is it definitely going back and forth.

03-18-2002, 10:50 PM	#49
Lanelf Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Second Drawer Down Posts: 407	Well if they didn't do it going back and forth, people (like me!) might get annoyed that Sam and Frodo aren't on and walk out, or just come in for the last half. I can't wait to see the end of TTT and start of the Sam and Fro bit of ROTK. BYO tissues!!! _________ A small cute frog counts off the days till TTT on his LOTR calendar.

03-18-2002, 11:04 PM	#50
*Khamûl* Slacker Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,759	I think they should edit it chronologically. If they didn't, some folks would probably get lost. Most of the action in TTT takes place with Aragorn and Co. so the action will probably focus on them. The Dead Marshes and Henneth Annûn should be pretty cool to see, though. I'll be happy whichever way they do it, because Hey! It's The Two Towers! __________________ "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31

03-19-2002, 05:06 PM	#51
Ërendil Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 389	Even though i don't like it when they change the movie so that it doesn't match the book, i hope that they move it back and forth between the two ...things (I can't remember what to call it). When i read the book the 1st time, i wasn't that bothered what happened to the others...just Sam and Frodo so i was impatient to get onto book 4...there will be other people who think like this. __________________ "You're one of the Abaharaki, oh I had forgotten. Look at me, I am completly drenched! I do hate the rain, it makes me so depressed..." "Hehehehe, moeru moeru!" "That's it, set it all on fire; we're gonna smoke out Escaflowne!" "Oh, I hit the wrong target... never mind that creature was useless to us anyway. Our orders were to get the girl? So he isn't our concern, we don't need him!" ^_^ Isn't Dilandau just fantastic? You just have to love the insane, murderous pyro :-D

03-19-2002, 06:11 PM	#52
Comic Book Guy Best Ex-Administrator ever Join Date: May 2001 Location: Ireland Posts: 60,547	This topic is featured in a current thread, because there is already a few replies, I will merge them.

03-21-2002, 08:29 PM	#53
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Now that it appears that Shelob and the tower of Cirith Ungol are bumped to RotK, one can wonder this: In all of the Two Towers, Frodo and Sam's journey with Gollum will go just from Emyn Muil to maybe the base of the path to Cirith Ungol and Shelob's Lair. That's a lot of film and not a lot of action, even though a lot of action is occurring with the other remnants of the Fellowship. So, it only makes sense that The Two Towers is going to give to the audience the "character development" stuff they cried was missing from Fellowship. There will be a good amount of time, set against the parallel plots of Merry, Pippin and Treebeard as well as Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and the Rohirrim, to devote more screen exposure to the interaction of the characters. So a (relatively) lot of time in Ithilien, after the turning aside at the Gates of Mordor. A lot of screen time for Gollum, which is intriguing. Plenty of time for the development of "events out west" in the neighborhood of the Gap of Rohan and the headwaters of the River Isen. I imagine The Two Towers might even have a slightly less "hurried" pace than Fellowship. Less material, more time, might be even better crafted. As for the ending of the film, as far as Sam and Frodo, I see a shot from below the Hobbits as they are starting up the stairway to Cirith Ungol, Frodo looking tired, worn and old, complaining how heavy the Ring is and Sam swearing to carry him to Mount Doom if he has to. Red light glints off the cloudbank hovering above the Pass, as Mount Doom rumbles and vents more and more magma as Sauron's power waxes. they dash for cover as below, an outpouring of Orcs in ranks led by a Nazgul head out of Minas Morgul, beautiful Ithilien in their path. All seems lost. No real hope. And Gollum has mysteriously disappeared.... Cue credits. [Sorry, CBG!] __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

03-21-2002, 08:34 PM	#54
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	I would also prefer that the plot both east and west of the Anduin should be told going back and forth. Would add an air of even greater immediacy to the efforts of the Fellowship. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

03-22-2002, 01:04 AM	#56
GandalfTheWhite Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 297	opinion i think bropous ending sounds pretty good, i also think that the crossroads would make a good ending __________________ "Behold, I am not Gandalf the Grey, whom you betrayed. I am Gandalf the White, who has returned from death. You have no colour now, and I cast you from the order and from the Council." -Gandalf The Road goes ever on and on Down from the door where it began. Now far ahead the Road has gone, And I must follow, if I can, Pursuing it with eager feet, Until it joins some larger way Where many paths and errands meet. And whither then? I cannot say. "He who breaks a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom." -Gandalf "A thing is about to happen which has not happened since the Elder Days: the Ents are going to wake up and find that they are strong." -Gandalf

03-24-2002, 02:31 AM	#57
Entlover Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 463	But don't forget all those people who said "where's the ending? It can't end here!" Many people want a happy ending, or at least an upbeat one,especially if they have to wait another year to see the third part. PJ may take that into account. I liked the mood at the end of FotR: melancholy but hopeful. I'd hate to leave Frodo and Sam separated for the whole year.

03-24-2002, 02:46 AM	#58
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	I would like people leaving the theater thinking Frodo is dead. If they didn't read the books - that's their problem. Maybe it'll make them want to read them. I just think it would be hard to have advertisements for RotK and not include footage of Frodo and Sam though. If they did that - then people would realize that Frodo wasn't really dead, just like they have the problem with Gandalf the White now in TT. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

03-24-2002, 11:26 AM	#59
RosieCotton Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Hobbiton...no wait.... Posts: 263	I would prefer they keep it as they did in the books: Aragorn and Co. in the first half; Sam and Frodo in the second. However, people who aren't farmiliar with the books would probably get confused. Oh well. There are worse things I have heard. Much worse. ~Rosie~ __________________ Fortune rides like the Sun on high With the fox that makes the ravens fly Luck his sould, the lightning his eye He snatches the moons from out of the sky.

03-24-2002, 06:04 PM	#60
Warrior Hobbit Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 19	jerseydevil - i too was thinking that having people leave the theater thinking Frodo was dead would be a good idea. The way i saw it was having Sam walking off with Frodo's things (Sting, the Ring, etc...) and he sees/hears the orcs coming from both directions and have it end right when Sam is about to put the ring on....leaving things up in the open and people who don't know the books think Frodo is dead and Sam now has the burden on his shoulder.

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