My new theory on Tom Bombadil - Page 3

Kiri · 01-28-2002, 06:41 PM

Tom Bombadil is Tom Bombadil. Tom is Tom. What's so hard about simply taking it at that? Obviously, when compared to all the other inhabitants of Arda, he falls into a "none of the above" category. Fine. So he's not just "Tom Bombadil", but he's Tom Bombadil, only known example of a Tom Bombadil.

ragamuffin92 · 01-28-2002, 07:53 PM

But that's no fun!! How are we going to argue about THAT??? (

just kidding)

Arathorn · 01-30-2002, 05:44 AM

He's Middle-Earth's version of "Clippy". Prof T forgot to disable him in the release version.

Elanor · 01-30-2002, 11:45 PM

whoa, we're getting deep.

I seriously don't think it's possible to define what Tom Bombadil is. But I do like the music idea, and I thought it was cool that I came up with something I'd never heard of anywhere else

.

As for the presence of God in LotR, that deserves another thread to itself. Maybe I'll start one.

Most of my posts, you may notice, are opinion-based. I don't really like to argue facts! Most of you guys' arguments are pretty redundant you know.

Elanor · 01-31-2002, 12:03 AM

Hey, here's another theory no one's thought of! (I defy you to find any proof for or against it) Long ago Melkor made a huge factory to create dragons and trolls. He used lots of toxic chemicals and finally Dump #1 in Angband filled up. So for a while he had to dump his toxic waste over in Eriador, until he was kicked out of Middle Earth by the Valar. Now whenever anyone goes through Dump #2, they have hallucinations brought on by the fumes. There's really nothing there except a pile of junk, but they think they're in a forest with evil biting trees, strange hopping singing people, and ghosts that take their clothes and dress them up in weird costumes.

Everyone but Maiar and Valar are susceptible to the hallucinations. Valar don't know it's there because they don't pay attention. Of course Gandalf knows, but he doesn't tell anyone because he thinks it's fun to trick them. At the end of RotK when he claims he's going to visit Bombadil, he's really going to tell off Alatar and Pallando, who have been hiding in Dump #2 so they don't have to do any work. Uh-oh, now they're in trouble.

sepulchrave · 01-31-2002, 01:11 AM

"At that time did many strange spirits fare into the world, for there were pleasant places dark and quiet for them to dwell in. Some came from mandos, aged spirits that journeyed FROM ILUVATAR WITH HIM WHO ARE OLDER THAN THE WORLD... Some few danced thither with gentle feet exuding evening scents...
Still is the world full of these in the days of light, lingering alone in shadowy hearts of primeval forests, calling secret things across a starry waste, and haunting caverns in the hills that few have found:- but the pinewoods are yet too full of these old unelfin and inhuman spirits for the quietude of Eldar or of Men."

selected quotes from The Book of LostTales, chapter 4, The Chaining of Melko
????

MasterMothra · 01-31-2002, 01:11 AM

that pretty much sums it up.
good post bro.

Sirithdal · 01-31-2002, 01:41 AM

Cute is as cute says. You're cute.

sepulchrave · 01-31-2002, 01:53 AM

I believe that Tom Bombadil was a character that was very close to Tolkiens heart, something older in his imagination than practically anything else in the whole mythos. He represents, in my opinion, an untamed wildness, something primeval and not easily defined, something akin to the Green Man of Celtic myth, or perhaps Pan. Something in Tolkiens imagination identified deeply with the ancient pagan personification of all things unknown and feared/respected/worshipped "out there" in the forested darkness. The fecund, virile, crawling, cascading greenness that cannot be controlled....
The forest of Middle Earth had undergone a slow but steady decline in the ten thousand years of its existence, and the Old Forest and Fangorn were some of the last tracts of the original woods of the old world. At one time this "Spirit" had free rein to wander the length and breadth of middle earth, but now, the environs for which he was responsible were fenced and bordered...but as is so often the case with these things, once inside the wood, it seems much larger than it appears from the outside.
Why should this apparent guardian of the untamed wildwood care about the affairs of elves and men? These matters are completely outside of its jurisdiction. The progress of root and branch, ivy over stone and droplet into moss are of far more interest. And this is how it should be. Not far from where I live are Cedar forests two thousand years old. I walk through them as often as I can, and I can never lose the exquisite sensation of smallness and irrelevance at the feet of these giants. The years go by, the mist rolls through the forest, the drips of ever present moisture fall into the ferns, and I am but a second in all those years... all of human history since the Nazarene preached mercy in Galilee can be encompassed in that seedlings progress... The profound silence of those groves mock our noisesome cesspool cities, so brief and gaudy, so proud and stinking.
Tom has more important things to mind than a bauble on someones finger. The times of men and even elves are brief to his ageless eyes. While he watered the garden, Armies marched by his gate...he is still watering... as long as the wildwood lurks on the horizons of our nightmares and fantasies, Tom still has a place. When all is tamed, measured and fenced, then Tom will wander into the worlds twilight with his bright boots on.... and our world will never be the same again.

ragamuffin92 · 01-31-2002, 02:20 AM

elanor, where do you get this stuff?

sepulchrave, your post was a bit over my head, but what I understood, I liked.

ragamuffin92 · 01-31-2002, 04:29 PM

I just read some interesting comments on Tom this morning, in "Letters," #144, paragraph 3; also see paragraphs 21-23, for some good stuff on Tom and the Entwives.
Professor T said, "And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)."
I take that to say that he meant for Tom to be an unexplainable mystery, with a hidden origin, and no explanation of his nature. maybe even the Prof didn't come up with an answer in his own mind. Of course, thhat doesn't mean we can't come up with one on our own.

Ñólendil · 01-31-2002, 05:52 PM

Unexplained, yes, but not I think unexplainable. In that very same letter he said that he thought it was a good idea not to explain some things, 'especially if an answer really exists'. Tolkien once commented upon Tom that he was an aborigine, and he named off various creatures and people he was older than. This and all the things the author said about Tom in letters makes me believe he had a pretty good idea about what he was.

ragamuffin92 · 01-31-2002, 08:19 PM

It's too bad that Professor T didn't have the lifespan of a Numenorean, so he could tell us himself...

bropous · 02-01-2002, 03:59 PM

Agreed with Kiri, that some folks are reading too much into Bombadil. Tom is Tom. I think that pretty much sums it up.

Like Inoldonil said, Tolkien left some things unexplained, but that doesn't make them unexplainable. I just don't think that one can really find in Tolkien's writings that declarative statement that fully explains the existence of Bombadil. I'm not so sure he isn't Maiar, in human-like form, but can't find anything to back up the premise. I think we have to come to our own explanation of who he is and where he fits into the milieu, and in this no one of us is gonna be more correct than the other.

ragamuffin, if there were ONE person in history I would wish the lifespan of a Numenorean upon, it would have been Professor T. Good point.

And welcome to the Moot, Sirithdal and MasterMothra!

Vardasoroniel · 02-01-2002, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sepulchrave
I believe that Tom Bombadil was a character that was very close to Tolkiens heart, something older in his imagination than practically anything else in the whole mythos. He represents, in my opinion, an untamed wildness, something primeval and not easily defined, something akin to the Green Man of Celtic myth, or perhaps Pan. Something in Tolkiens imagination identified deeply with the ancient pagan personification of all things unknown and feared/respected/worshipped "out there" in the forested darkness. The fecund, virile, crawling, cascading greenness that cannot be controlled....
. . . Tom has more important things to mind than a bauble on someones finger. The times of men and even elves are brief to his ageless eyes. While he watered the garden, Armies marched by his gate...he is still watering... as long as the wildwood lurks on the horizons of our nightmares and fantasies, Tom still has a place. When all is tamed, measured and fenced, then Tom will wander into the worlds twilight with his bright boots on.... and our world will never be the same again.

excellent post!

i reminded me of one of my favorite quotes:

'In Wildness is the preservation of the world.'

Kwijibo · 02-01-2002, 06:30 PM

Um...has any1 ever read BORED of the Rings. Now, don't any1 get all worked up and stuff because i LOVE all JRRT's work especially the Lord of the Rings. But i thought u might just like 2 hear their theory on Tom Bombadil. Now according 2 them Tom Bombadil (he wasn't called that but i can't remember wot they did call him) was this totally wild hippie/beatnik higher that the clouds on LSD.

Please don't anybody take offense coz i don't want 2 b responsible 4 an argument. But since this is the nature of the thread, i thought u might like 2 know what other people's ... ideas r. THIS ISN'T MY THEORY THOUGH! I don't have a Tom theory, he's just 'Tom Bombadil' 2 me.

b happy!!
___________________
'Even the smallest people can change the course of the future'
Galadriel, Lady of the Woods.

markedel · 02-01-2002, 06:37 PM

I need to find that book. BOTR sounds funny as does the excerpts I've read.

ragamuffin92 · 02-01-2002, 06:47 PM

Kwijib-It's Tim Benzedrine.
markedel-I found BOTR listed on Amazon.com

Kwijibo · 02-01-2002, 07:10 PM

Thanx u guys!

In BotR, Aragorn is called Arrowroot and he's the complete opposite of Aragorn! And Sam is just a massive chickin. Once, the Nozdril (Nazgul) were creeping up on the Boggies (Hobbits) and they drew straws 2 c who would throw the Nozdril off course. Sam got the short straw and he soved a handkerchief on top of a stick as a surrender and said 'They went that way' and almost sold his friends lives 2 the Nozdril!

It's really funny though

firstus ravenwood · 02-02-2002, 02:59 PM

Wow he sure is a character is he not and such seriousness here about who and what he might be.

To me he is a soul character of the book, story and middle earth.
He is what you want him to be and uses music as a vehicle of commomnality to converse with all he meets whatever the situation.

In short he is the last remaining member of a timeless boy band called Tom and the Bombadilloes that were popular, although not very well known, in Tolkiens youth.

Keep on singing

01-28-2002, 07:53 PM	#42
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	But that's no fun!! How are we going to argue about THAT??? ( just kidding) __________________ FRODO LIVES!! (sung to the tune of "My Boyfriend's Back") Now, Gandalf's back, and you're gonna be in trouble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back) Soon, Barad-dur is gonna be a pile of rubble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back)

01-30-2002, 05:44 AM	#43
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	He's Middle-Earth's version of "Clippy". Prof T forgot to disable him in the release version. __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

01-30-2002, 11:45 PM	#44
Elanor Hobbit in the Music Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Westmarch Posts: 1,111	whoa, we're getting deep. I seriously don't think it's possible to define what Tom Bombadil is. But I do like the music idea, and I thought it was cool that I came up with something I'd never heard of anywhere else . As for the presence of God in LotR, that deserves another thread to itself. Maybe I'll start one. Most of my posts, you may notice, are opinion-based. I don't really like to argue facts! Most of you guys' arguments are pretty redundant you know. __________________ Middle Earth Crossword Puzzle on the Tolkien Site of DOOM Segovia Mazes

01-31-2002, 12:03 AM	#45
Elanor Hobbit in the Music Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Westmarch Posts: 1,111	Hey, here's another theory no one's thought of! (I defy you to find any proof for or against it) Long ago Melkor made a huge factory to create dragons and trolls. He used lots of toxic chemicals and finally Dump #1 in Angband filled up. So for a while he had to dump his toxic waste over in Eriador, until he was kicked out of Middle Earth by the Valar. Now whenever anyone goes through Dump #2, they have hallucinations brought on by the fumes. There's really nothing there except a pile of junk, but they think they're in a forest with evil biting trees, strange hopping singing people, and ghosts that take their clothes and dress them up in weird costumes. Everyone but Maiar and Valar are susceptible to the hallucinations. Valar don't know it's there because they don't pay attention. Of course Gandalf knows, but he doesn't tell anyone because he thinks it's fun to trick them. At the end of RotK when he claims he's going to visit Bombadil, he's really going to tell off Alatar and Pallando, who have been hiding in Dump #2 so they don't have to do any work. Uh-oh, now they're in trouble. __________________ Middle Earth Crossword Puzzle on the Tolkien Site of DOOM Segovia Mazes

01-31-2002, 01:11 AM	#47
MasterMothra Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: utumno and angband Posts: 241	that pretty much sums it up. good post bro. __________________ "........and his name is Melkor, Lord of All, Giver of Freedom, and he shall make you stronger than they."- sauron talking to ar pharazon.

01-28-2002, 06:41 PM	#41
Kiri Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 42	Tom Bombadil is Tom Bombadil. Tom is Tom. What's so hard about simply taking it at that? Obviously, when compared to all the other inhabitants of Arda, he falls into a "none of the above" category. Fine. So he's not just "Tom Bombadil", but he's Tom Bombadil, only known example of a Tom Bombadil.

01-31-2002, 01:11 AM	#46
sepulchrave Enting Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: vancouver island, BC, Canada Posts: 58	"At that time did many strange spirits fare into the world, for there were pleasant places dark and quiet for them to dwell in. Some came from mandos, aged spirits that journeyed FROM ILUVATAR WITH HIM WHO ARE OLDER THAN THE WORLD... Some few danced thither with gentle feet exuding evening scents... Still is the world full of these in the days of light, lingering alone in shadowy hearts of primeval forests, calling secret things across a starry waste, and haunting caverns in the hills that few have found:- but the pinewoods are yet too full of these old unelfin and inhuman spirits for the quietude of Eldar or of Men." selected quotes from The Book of LostTales, chapter 4, The Chaining of Melko ????

01-31-2002, 01:41 AM	#48
Sirithdal Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 44	Elanor Cute is as cute says. You're cute.

01-31-2002, 01:53 AM	#49
sepulchrave Enting Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: vancouver island, BC, Canada Posts: 58	I believe that Tom Bombadil was a character that was very close to Tolkiens heart, something older in his imagination than practically anything else in the whole mythos. He represents, in my opinion, an untamed wildness, something primeval and not easily defined, something akin to the Green Man of Celtic myth, or perhaps Pan. Something in Tolkiens imagination identified deeply with the ancient pagan personification of all things unknown and feared/respected/worshipped "out there" in the forested darkness. The fecund, virile, crawling, cascading greenness that cannot be controlled.... The forest of Middle Earth had undergone a slow but steady decline in the ten thousand years of its existence, and the Old Forest and Fangorn were some of the last tracts of the original woods of the old world. At one time this "Spirit" had free rein to wander the length and breadth of middle earth, but now, the environs for which he was responsible were fenced and bordered...but as is so often the case with these things, once inside the wood, it seems much larger than it appears from the outside. Why should this apparent guardian of the untamed wildwood care about the affairs of elves and men? These matters are completely outside of its jurisdiction. The progress of root and branch, ivy over stone and droplet into moss are of far more interest. And this is how it should be. Not far from where I live are Cedar forests two thousand years old. I walk through them as often as I can, and I can never lose the exquisite sensation of smallness and irrelevance at the feet of these giants. The years go by, the mist rolls through the forest, the drips of ever present moisture fall into the ferns, and I am but a second in all those years... all of human history since the Nazarene preached mercy in Galilee can be encompassed in that seedlings progress... The profound silence of those groves mock our noisesome cesspool cities, so brief and gaudy, so proud and stinking. Tom has more important things to mind than a bauble on someones finger. The times of men and even elves are brief to his ageless eyes. While he watered the garden, Armies marched by his gate...he is still watering... as long as the wildwood lurks on the horizons of our nightmares and fantasies, Tom still has a place. When all is tamed, measured and fenced, then Tom will wander into the worlds twilight with his bright boots on.... and our world will never be the same again.

01-31-2002, 02:20 AM	#50
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	Oh, elanor and sepulchrave... elanor, where do you get this stuff? sepulchrave, your post was a bit over my head, but what I understood, I liked. __________________ FRODO LIVES!! (sung to the tune of "My Boyfriend's Back") Now, Gandalf's back, and you're gonna be in trouble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back) Soon, Barad-dur is gonna be a pile of rubble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back)

01-31-2002, 04:29 PM	#51
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	Oh, Tom Bombadil, Tom Bombadillo... I just read some interesting comments on Tom this morning, in "Letters," #144, paragraph 3; also see paragraphs 21-23, for some good stuff on Tom and the Entwives. Professor T said, "And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)." I take that to say that he meant for Tom to be an unexplainable mystery, with a hidden origin, and no explanation of his nature. maybe even the Prof didn't come up with an answer in his own mind. Of course, thhat doesn't mean we can't come up with one on our own. __________________ FRODO LIVES!! (sung to the tune of "My Boyfriend's Back") Now, Gandalf's back, and you're gonna be in trouble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back) Soon, Barad-dur is gonna be a pile of rubble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back)

01-31-2002, 05:52 PM	#52
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Unexplained, yes, but not I think unexplainable. In that very same letter he said that he thought it was a good idea not to explain some things, 'especially if an answer really exists'. Tolkien once commented upon Tom that he was an aborigine, and he named off various creatures and people he was older than. This and all the things the author said about Tom in letters makes me believe he had a pretty good idea about what he was. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

01-31-2002, 08:19 PM	#53
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	It's too bad that Professor T didn't have the lifespan of a Numenorean, so he could tell us himself... __________________ FRODO LIVES!! (sung to the tune of "My Boyfriend's Back") Now, Gandalf's back, and you're gonna be in trouble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back) Soon, Barad-dur is gonna be a pile of rubble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back)

02-01-2002, 03:59 PM	#54
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Agreed with Kiri, that some folks are reading too much into Bombadil. Tom is Tom. I think that pretty much sums it up. Like Inoldonil said, Tolkien left some things unexplained, but that doesn't make them unexplainable. I just don't think that one can really find in Tolkien's writings that declarative statement that fully explains the existence of Bombadil. I'm not so sure he isn't Maiar, in human-like form, but can't find anything to back up the premise. I think we have to come to our own explanation of who he is and where he fits into the milieu, and in this no one of us is gonna be more correct than the other. ragamuffin, if there were ONE person in history I would wish the lifespan of a Numenorean upon, it would have been Professor T. Good point. And welcome to the Moot, Sirithdal and MasterMothra! __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

02-01-2002, 06:30 PM	#56
Kwijibo Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlorien (actually Wales, but let's not talk about that) Posts: 117	Um...has any1 ever read BORED of the Rings. Now, don't any1 get all worked up and stuff because i LOVE all JRRT's work especially the Lord of the Rings. But i thought u might just like 2 hear their theory on Tom Bombadil. Now according 2 them Tom Bombadil (he wasn't called that but i can't remember wot they did call him) was this totally wild hippie/beatnik higher that the clouds on LSD. Please don't anybody take offense coz i don't want 2 b responsible 4 an argument. But since this is the nature of the thread, i thought u might like 2 know what other people's ... ideas r. THIS ISN'T MY THEORY THOUGH! I don't have a Tom theory, he's just 'Tom Bombadil' 2 me. b happy!! ___________________ 'Even the smallest people can change the course of the future' Galadriel, Lady of the Woods.

02-01-2002, 06:37 PM	#57
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	I need to find that book. BOTR sounds funny as does the excerpts I've read. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

02-01-2002, 06:47 PM	#58
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	Oh, Kwijibo and markedel Kwijib-It's Tim Benzedrine. markedel-I found BOTR listed on Amazon.com __________________ FRODO LIVES!! (sung to the tune of "My Boyfriend's Back") Now, Gandalf's back, and you're gonna be in trouble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back) Soon, Barad-dur is gonna be a pile of rubble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back)

02-01-2002, 07:10 PM	#59
Kwijibo Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlorien (actually Wales, but let's not talk about that) Posts: 117	Thanx u guys! In BotR, Aragorn is called Arrowroot and he's the complete opposite of Aragorn! And Sam is just a massive chickin. Once, the Nozdril (Nazgul) were creeping up on the Boggies (Hobbits) and they drew straws 2 c who would throw the Nozdril off course. Sam got the short straw and he soved a handkerchief on top of a stick as a surrender and said 'They went that way' and almost sold his friends lives 2 the Nozdril! It's really funny though __________________ 'So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you can decide is what to do with the time that is given to you,' - Gandalf the Grey 'I left my body to science, but I'm afraid they've turned it down' - In memory of Graham Chapman 'Rubin sits like Buddah in a 10 foot cell, An innocent man in a living hell,' - From 'Hurricane' by Bob Dylan, the only innocent Hurricane protest song, written stressing the innocence of Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter, a black, middle-weight boxer imprisoned for 19 for a triple murder which he did not commit.

02-02-2002, 02:59 PM	#60
firstus ravenwood Sapling Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: where the waters weep Posts: 4	Tom Bombadil Wow he sure is a character is he not and such seriousness here about who and what he might be. To me he is a soul character of the book, story and middle earth. He is what you want him to be and uses music as a vehicle of commomnality to converse with all he meets whatever the situation. In short he is the last remaining member of a timeless boy band called Tom and the Bombadilloes that were popular, although not very well known, in Tolkiens youth. Keep on singing

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