How old is Legolas?

[Curufin]

And we had to actually go to bookstores and part with our babysitting money to buy books, in those days.

And I have every single text that Tolkien wrote (and the ones CT edited) in book format bought with real money as well.

I'm not sure how we did get so far off topic - I wouldn't want everything put in the movies either, but PJ could have at least tried to stay close to the book in the things he did include.

[Curufin]

Is being a hierophant really bad?

It's those things that attracted me to Tolkien's works - the depth and the idea of deciphering and understanding.

Ah well, to each their own.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

darn Sindar buffoons who banned our language from Middle-earth AND stole a Silmaril

I think you're kidding but somehow I'm not really sure.

[Curufin]

Nope, not kidding.

That's serious stuff.

not kidding, actually. Can't stand the Sindar. Moriquendi buffoons who think they can order the Noldor around...ok, so Thingol's Caliquendi, but that's a technicality...

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

I don't recognise any canonical authority other than the 4 first books.

Do you mean three tomes of LOTR and the Silm?
I have to remind you that the age of Frodo and the quotes implying the age of Legolas and Elrond ARE in LOTR, the date of the Plague is in LOTR, and not it the HOME that you despise so much.

Actually, it bugs me that you are so disrespectful to Chris. The man has done all that a good son and a careful editor should do... HOME is an excellent work, leaving absolutely no doubts which are JRR's quotes and which are Chris's comments. It is a problem with guys like M. Martinez, but not with Christopher Tolkien.

Originally Posted by DPR

I said it wasn't the only reason, Gordis, and I'm well aware of the layout of Middle Earth.

I know you are, that's why I was so surprised when you said they were going south anyway...

Originally Posted by Jon S

.Respectfully, Gordis, now, you're assuming that what Thranduil knew, Legolas knew: "... only here have *** I *** learned how evil they may seem to this company.

Yes, I agree, likely Thranduil himself had already figured it out how dangerous all this matter of Gollum must have been: so he sent his own son as messenger. But clearly Thranduil didn't understand it before, wasn't prepared for the attack from Dol Guldur - otherwise he wouldn't let Gollum outside his caves guarded by a few elves - and all this at night!

Originally Posted by Jon S

I don't know how whether the old-timers here dig Martinez or not but I do and I enjoyed his discussion of Legolas:

I have read a lot of Martinez - but I can't say I am his fan. He mixes his own fanfiction with canon and it is hard to tell one from the other. As for Legolas...maybe he feels young (sometimes) because he was one of the youngest elves of Mirkwood. Maybe he was Thranduil's youngest son.

We are not told how many children Thranduil had.
But look here: Miriel birthed one son and died of exhaustion. But the son was Feanor himself. Nerdanel birthed seven sons (we all know them) and remained OK. I would say Thranduil's wife could have birthed 20-25 sons like Legolas and stayed OK. Just kidding...

[Curufin]

But look here: MÃ*riel birthed one son and died of exhaustion. But the son was Fëanáro himself. Nerdanel birthed seven sons (we all know them) and remained OK. I would say Thranduil's wife could have birthed 20-25 sons like Legolas and stayed OK. Just kidding...

Tsk, tsk, accents, Gordis! Just defending my Quenya, you know.

As for the content - If Nerdanel could handle seven of me, then yeah, thirty or forty Legolasi (is that the right plural? lol) would be no problem at all.

And yeah, Legolas never even insinuates that he's the oldest son. Thranduil probably sent one who had nothing better to do and was wasting all his time chatting up the Mirkwood babes. Keep him out of trouble.

[Jon S.]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

hierophants

Are those related to oliphaunts? (Seriously, though most days I pride myself on my vocabulary but this one I'll be looking up. )

[Curufin]

Do you mean three tomes of LOTR and the Silm?

I think she means LotR and the Hobbit...

[Jon S.]

Originally Posted by Gordis

We are not told how many children Thranduil had.
But look here: Miriel birthed one son and died of exhaustion. But the son was Feanor himself. Nerdanel birthed seven sons (we all know them) and remained OK. I would say Thranduil's wife could have birthed 20-25 sons like Legolas and stayed OK. Just kidding...

Do we even know who his wife was? (I hate that when the women get such short thrift.)

[Curufin]

Do we even know who his wife was?

No.

But I did a good RP about this once.

[Gordis]

Did you birth 40 Legolasi?

[Curufin]

No!

But I did have more than one son...

[Curufin]

Just thought I'd add a salient quote that I found today in reading through Myths Transformed:

On Earth while an elf-child did but grow to be a man or a woman, in some 3000 years, forests would rise and fall, and all the face of the land would change, while birds and flowers innumerable would be born and die in löar upon löar under the wheeling Sun.

While this does not specifically mention Legolas, the fact that it says that it takes 3000 Earth Years for an 'elf-child' to grow to 'be a a man or a woman', says to me that Legolas must have been at least that old, since, while he certainly wasn't old in the way of the Eldar, he wasn't a child either - he was matured into an adult. This puts his birth at the earliest around T.A. 19, which makes sense if Thranduil married soon after the war and had children.

[GrayMouser]

According to my rough calculations, that would amount to about 300 years of changing diapers- no wonder Elves didn't have many children.

[Earniel]

Never mind the diapers, think of the lenght of puberty.

[Gordis]

Here is a very interesting article about Legolas, estimating his age at about 700 and arguing that his mom was a Green-elf, not a Sinda.

http://www.istad.org/tolkien/legolas.html

[Jon S.]

Thank you for that most excellent article.

Please do not deem me amiss if I highlight this particular sentence which brought a smile to my face:

As M. Martinez points out in his excellent "Speaking of Legolas" article, no other Elves we've met would play such a game, and Legolas' sudden impulse to ride into the Huorn-forest to get a closer look at the strange trees (The Road to Isengard, TTT) is typical of his innocent curiosity.

[feawen]

im sure someones already said this and you've probably stopped talking about it but im sure i read about a legolas in the sillmarillion. What tolkien make up two different legolas's just for the fun of confusing people? i think his at least over 1000 if not more.

[Gordis]

I don't think there is Legolas in the Silm.
But there is one in the Book of Lost Tales 2.

Here is the quote from the article by Ellen Brundige I linked to above:

In Book of Lost Tales 2, there are several references to one "Legolas Greenleaf of the House of the Tree" who served as guide for the refugees of Gondolin. There are two obvious reasons why this can't be the son of Thranduil. First, as noted above, Tolkien decided "Legolas" was a Silvanized spelling of a Sindarin name, and that makes no sense for a resident of Gondolin, whose Elves were Noldor. Second, in FOTR, Legolas tells the Fellowship that the elves of Eregion are a race that is strange to him. Those elves were Noldor, many of them refugees from Gondolin. Christopher Tolkien therefore identifies "Legolas Greenleaf of the House of the Tree" and "Legolas Greenleaf son of Thranduil" as two different people. Legolas of Gondolin only appears in Tolkien's very early writings, long before he began to write LOTR, when he was still calling Noldor "Gnomes". Tolkien's story, characters, and world evolved and changed significantly after that. Legolas' name is one of a great many that appear in Tolkien's early writings and are later reused and given to someone entirely different.

John S., there is a link to Martines's article, so I have read it as well. I like Ellen Brundige's much more. She does use quotes correctly - unlike Martinez.

But both articles are rather convincing. I think now that Legolas may indeed have been the "Watchful Peace" baby, born between SA 2063 and 2460.
Likely he was far from being the only son of Thranduil, or his heir. It looks like he was the last child in the family, all his siblings born before 1100.

[Earniel]

Feawen, perhaps you're confusing with Glorfindel? There's one in LoTR and in the Silmarillion.