Free will vs. destiny - Page 3

Olmer · 10-20-2004, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

the creation of the dwarves was not destined by eru, yet he took aule's
creations and gave them a place within arda, ...

If you are implying that Eru himself gave them "a destined place ", than he, like a wicked step-dad, trew poor short b***ds further away from his sight, leaving them to die from starvation, because stony, barren, unsuitable for unsupported life underground is not exactly the place where you put your children, or somebody else children.
Remember, that they didn't acquired their knowledge of craftsmanship overnight.

In the post "favorite race and why"I asked the question what did the dwarves do at the beginning and how come they ended up underground. I think the same question could be asked over here.

Attalus · 10-20-2004, 06:42 PM

I have always been of the view that the Dwarves dwelt underground because they are miners and craftsmen and like to be close to their source of materials.

Olmer · 10-20-2004, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Attalus

I have always been of the view that the Dwarves dwelt underground because they are miners and craftsmen and like to be close to their source of materials.

This is not the reason why they ended living underground ,it's a concequence.
Elves are great craftsmen also, but they did not became the miners.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 10-21-2004, 03:19 AM

But the dwarves were created by Aule, and most elves loved trees and the sea.

Last Child of Ungoliant · 10-21-2004, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olmer

If you are implying that Eru himself gave them "a destined place ", than he, like a wicked step-dad, trew poor short b***ds further away from his sight, leaving them to die from starvation, because stony, barren, unsuitable for unsupported life underground is not exactly the place where you put your children, or somebody else children.
Remember, that they didn't acquired their knowledge of craftsmanship overnight.

In the post "favorite race and why"I asked the question what did the dwarves do at the beginning and how come they ended up underground. I think the same question could be asked over here.

Aule created them in a hall under the mountains in middle earth
it clearly states that in The Silmarillion 'Of Aule and Yavanna',
Aule destined the dwarves to become great miners, and craftsmen
of the mountain halls, he even set the seven fathers to sleep in
great mansions under mountains, if that isn't saying
"Look, I want you to be great miners, and builders
of the mountain halls" then I don't know what is...

but that is just an interpretation

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

So, in effect, what you're saying is...

"You must have free will! It is your destiny!"

of course

'you are destined to do what you want - destiny and free will are both illusions'

inked · 10-28-2004, 11:00 PM

Dwarves inhabit earth as men the land and birds the air.
It is their nature and they choose to live there.
As fish to water fresh, salt, or briny
Dwarves dwell midst rocks and dirt
And gold/silver/jewels shiny!

10-20-2004, 06:42 PM	#42
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	I have always been of the view that the Dwarves dwelt underground because they are miners and craftsmen and like to be close to their source of materials. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

10-21-2004, 03:19 AM	#44
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	But the dwarves were created by Aule, and most elves loved trees and the sea. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

10-28-2004, 11:00 PM	#46
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Dwarves inhabit earth as men the land and birds the air. It is their nature and they choose to live there. As fish to water fresh, salt, or briny Dwarves dwell midst rocks and dirt And gold/silver/jewels shiny! __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

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