Would a Dwarf have been better as the Ring bearer?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Fenir_LacDanan

I disagree that hobbits had no desire for gold, luxury, or to dominate.

At the scouring of the shire, It is not just Ruffians that are the enemy, although in the battle of Bywater, they are. Sandyman the Miller has thrown in his lot with the "Boss", and the Sackville-Baggines have a sure desire for Luxury Gold and to dominate. Hobbits are just as suceptable to the temptation of the ring as anyone else.

Well then how do you explain Bilbo's reluctance to take his one fourteenth share of Smaug's gold and that he gave away the gold that was found were the trolls were.

[Haradrim]

Yeah I mean there were some bad apples in every barrel but the majority of Hobbits didnt care for that stuff where as the majority of Dwarvwes did.

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

Well then how do you explain Bilbo's reluctance to take his one fourteenth share of Smaug's gold and that he gave away the gold that was found were the trolls were.

I dont have to explain it.

Haradrim said that "hobbits", plural, were immune to desire for wealth and power, not a single "hobbit", i.e. Bilbo.

Bilbo was, just as in every race, the exception. The inference was that Hobbits, as a race, were immune. And that is, I argue, incorrect.

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

I don't know if this has been said already but I think the desire for the ring that all free peoples of ME could not withstand would drive a dwarf to desire gold and riches more. And since the one ring is gold itself in the end a dwarf would not throw a thing so precious away, perhaps more precious to a dwarf than to gollum!?

[Elanor the Fair]

The

other Free Peoples of the World: Elves, Dwarves and Men

have a historical afinity with the Rings of Power. The Hobbits have not been affected by this influence because they did not own any of the original Rings. Perhaps this is why they can resist the power of the Ring for longer?

As to dwarves being better than hobbits for this task, consider the words of Elrond...

"The road must be trod, but it will be very hard. And neither strength or wisdom will carry us far upon it. This quest may be attempted by the weak with as much hope as the strong."

He is saying that Hobbits are equally good at this task as any other race.

And also consider the words of Gandalf to Frodo....

"Besides that there was something else at work, beyond any designs of the Ring-maker. I can put it no plainer than by saying that Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, and not by its maker. In which case you were also meant to have it. And that may be an encouraging thought."

And also the words of Elrond...

"If I understand aright all that I have heard," he said, "I think that this task is appointed for you, Frodo; and that if you do not find a way, no one will."

Prophecy or foresight from Elrond, deeper knowledge and higher understanding by Gandalf?? Whatever the reason, Hobbits were destined to be the only people to destroy the Ring - one way or another.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Fenir_LacDanan

I dont have to explain it.

Haradrim said that "hobbits", plural, were immune to desire for wealth and power, not a single "hobbit", i.e. Bilbo.

Bilbo was, just as in every race, the exception. The inference was that Hobbits, as a race, were immune. And that is, I argue, incorrect.

Bilbo may have been an exception in that way but not in a way of lust for wealth and power. He had no interest in that and as Halbarad said a dwarf would never cast away a golden Ring with no magical powers let alone one that could control others.

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

Bilbo may have been an exception in that way but not in a way of lust for wealth and power. He had no interest in that and as Halbarad said a dwarf would never cast away a golden Ring with no magical powers let alone one that could control others.

You miss the point, good sir.

Say a Hobbit, any hobbit, John Smith the Hobbit for example. It dont matter that Smith refused the Ring, you, or he (haradrim) said that Hobbits could not. He plainly said that HOBBITS, as a race, are not in danger of a desire for wealth and power, and so on.

And, well, they kind if are....

[Valandil]

You still haven't told us anything to make us think a dwarf would do better though... all you've done so far is assassinate the Sackville-Bagginses characters!

Most here seem to think it would have been disasterous for a dwarf to be handed the One Ring. Can you change any minds?

[Radagast The Brown]

The problem wit hthe Ring was that it was more dangerous to 'stronger' people, such as Gandalf and Elrond. Most Men would easily fall, some will take more time, some less... Dwarves sound rather ok. I do agree that the average Dwarf will not throw the Ring into Mountain Doom. But, as I see it, Frodo didn't have more success. That';s my opnion, show me where I'm wrong. (seems like I am, as you all think differently.)

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Radagast The Brown

The problem wit hthe Ring was that it was more dangerous to 'stronger' people, such as Gandalf and Elrond. Most Men would easily fall, some will take more time, some less... Dwarves sound rather ok. I do agree that the average Dwarf will not throw the Ring into Mountain Doom. But, as I see it, Frodo didn't have more success. That';s my opnion, show me where I'm wrong. (seems like I am, as you all think differently.)

But Frodo at least was weak enough for Gollum to be able to take the Ring away from him. A stout dwarf, if he had managed to sneak so far into Mordor, would have easily tossen Gollum into the pit, then boldly walked back out with the Ring, right into the hands of the Nine... scratch that... EIGHT!

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally Posted by Valandil

But Frodo at least was weak enough for Gollum to be able to take the Ring away from him. A stout dwarf, if he had managed to sneak so far into Mordor, would have easily tossen Gollum into the pit, then boldly walked back out with the Ring, right into the hands of the Nine... scratch that... EIGHT!

In other words you say the dwarves weren't chosen because it was foreseen that the hobbits will succeed. Alright, it's acceptable... who knows how Eru was laughing at them during the journey.

[BeardofPants]

Oh Radagast you awful person, now I'm imagining Eru laughing his lily white butt off *sans pants of course*

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

Oh Radagast you awful person, now I'm imagining Eru laughing his lily white butt off *sans pants of course*

Interesting image....

I take it Eru's pants can be found in your collection?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Imagine if a dwarf had put the Ring on in Cirith Ungol and tried to sneak away past the orcs. He would have been heard and shot at.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Fenir_LacDanan

Alright kids...
And a Dwarf, would have been able to fight the power of the One Ring better, or at least as well as a hobbit, and would have been at least useful in a conflict situation...

I agree that a Dwarf would have been much better than a Hobbit at withstanding the hardships of the journey. I believe Aragorn had wanted himself and Gimli to be Frodo's companions in Mordor.

However, you leave out the fact that Dwarves are very weak-hearted when it comes to gold, and I believe Sauron understands this. Therefore, not only would the Dwarf have a hard time resisting a ring made of gold, but the Ring would be constantly tempting him (or her) with treasure beyond count etc etc. Hobbits could be tempted with this as well, but they don't have a specific weakness for it like Dwarves do.

Sauron doesn't understand Hobbits. Sam was tempted with a beautiful garden covering all of Middle-earth, but he realized that's not what he wants. Hobbits, for the most part, value food and cheer and a nice bit of garden to call their own. It's hard to tempt someone with that, because Sam knew he would already have that when he returned home.

Frodo was probably tempted with and end to pain, or being able to pass on his burden to someone stronger. In the end, all he saw was a great Eye. These are things that he (almost) successfully hardened his heart to. Hobbits might not be as physically tough as Dwarves, but they are at least as tough in spirit.

True, Frodo failed in the end (as Radagast pointed out) but I think a Dwarf would have succumbed much earlier, when Sauron would have had a chance to get the Ring back. And as Telcontar pointed out, Dwarves are much less stealthy. Therefore, Hobbits are still the best Ringbearers.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Aragorn may have wanted Gimli as a companion, but that is completly different to being the bearer, for all the reasons above.

[Haradrim]

So I shall make a list of reasons why the average dwarf wouldnt have done well against the ring:

1: Huge temptation for the gold
2: Not stealthy
3: Hobbits are supposed to do it
4: Probably would have failed long before reaching Mount Doom
5: Hobbits are cooler....
6: I have no more reasons. ANyone else have one start with 6 and go down.

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

6. "There are other forces at work than the will of evil, Bilbo was meant to find the ring, in which case you also were ment to have the ring, and that is an encouraging thought" Gandalf to the Hobbit Frodo...

Sounds like a good reson to me, simply because thats the way it is.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

7. Sauron knows of dwarves and knows nothing of hobbits.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

Aragorn may have wanted Gimli as a companion, but that is completly different to being the bearer, for all the reasons above.

Oh I agree, I was just pointing out that there are some positive aspects that Dwarves would have for being ringbearers.